Bush: "Iraq Not My Vietnam"

“My Fellow Americans,

Recently you may have heard people in the Democratic Party make the outrageous claim that our current liberation of Iraq is my Vietnam. This is a complete and utter distortion of historionical facts.

For one thing, if this were my Vietnam, then I'd of had one of my daddy's buddies to bail me out of this mess faster than a Texas governor can come with some kinda homey Texasy saying about being fast that they say down in Texas.

If this were my Vietnam, then I'd be out in Alabama or Ontario or wherever the heck it was that I did my National Guard service wondering how one of the family's Cadillacs wound up on the front lawn after I left the yacht club last night.

If this were my Vietnam, then I wouldn't be forced to have to up so doggone early every morning talking 'bout boring things like international ramifications of American foreign policy and could spend more time working on my five-iron and pheasant huntin'.

If this were my Vietnam, then me and Jeb would be fightin' over which cartoons we'd be watchin' every Saturday from our family estate in Kennebunkport.

If this were my Vietnam, then I'd be spending all my time wondering whether that chick sitting next to me Oil Executiving 101 at the Harvard Business School is wearin' a bra or not.

So the next time you hear the Democrats make another fallitacious accusation against me, remember that there is a huge difference between Iraq and Vietnam: namely, my daddy might not be able to get me out of this one.

- chortler.com”

“WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Republican Sen. Chuck Hagel of Nebraska on Thursday said the United States is "getting more and more bogged down" in Iraq and stood by his comments that the White House is disconnected from reality and losing the war.

The longer U.S. forces remain in Iraq, he said, the more it begins to resemble the Vietnam war.

Hagel mocked Vice President Dick Cheney's assertion in June that the insurgency in Iraq was in its "last throes," saying the U.S. death toll has risen amid insurgent attacks.

"Maybe the vice president can explain the increase in casualties we're taking," the Nebraskan told CNN.

"If that's winning, then he's got a different definition of winning than I do."
[...]
Hagel, an Army infantry squad leader during the Vietnam war, sits on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and supported the October 2002 resolution authorizing military action against Iraq.

But he said the United States risks losing more public support for the conflict amid a rising cost in blood and money.

"The casualties we're taking, the billion dollars a week we're putting in there, the kind of commitment we've got -- we're not going to be able to sustain it," he said.

Iraq and Vietnam still have more differences than similarities, he said, but "there is a parallel emerging."

"The longer we stay in Iraq, the more similarities will start to develop, meaning essentially that we are getting more and more bogged down, taking more and more casualties, more and more heated dissension and debate in the United States," Hagel said.
[...]

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/08/18/hagel.iraq/”

“Iraq and Vietnam still have more differences than similarities, he said, but "there is a parallel emerging."

Yes, that parallel would be hyperbole and propaganda.”

“Iraq and Vietnam still have more differences than similarities, he said, but "there is a parallel emerging."

Then why make the comparison? An attempt to manipulate people�s feelings and pound their chest.”

“So he can get his name in the paper and on TV.”

“to bad you younguns don't remember the vietnam war and all the protest that took about it.
This will evolve into another Vietnam. I can see it happening. You keep pouring more and more money into it and nothing changes. Yes you have some bright spots but overall it isn't. You lose more soldiers as it progresses.”

“This war has cost money?”

“Kissinger finds parallels to Vietnam in Iraq

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- An architect of the U.S. war in Vietnam more than 30 years ago said Sunday that he has "a very uneasy feeling" that some of the same factors that damaged support for the conflict there are re-emerging in the 2-year-old war in Iraq.

"For me, the tragedy of Vietnam was the divisions that occurred in the United States that made it, in the end, impossible to achieve an outcome that was compatible with the sacrifices that had been made," former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger told CNN's "Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer."
[...]”

“America has finally taken on the grim reality of Iraq

The US is radically rethinking its exit strategy, while Britain waits zombie-like for new instructions

Simon Jenkins
Wednesday October 18, 2006
The Guardian

The Baker report on an exit strategy from Iraq, leaked this week in the US, is as sensible as it is sensational. It rejects "staying the course" as no longer plausible and purports to seek alternatives to just "cutting and running". Stripped of political sweetening, it concludes that there is none. America must leave Iraq without preconditions and hope that its neighbours, hated Syria and Iran, can clear up the mess. This advice comes not from some anti-war coalition but from the Iraq study group under the former Republican secretary of state, James Baker, set up by Congress with President George Bush's endorsement. Students of Iraq studies should at this point sit down and steady their nerves. Kissinger is in Paris. The Vietnam moment is at hand.

America has finally taken on the grim reality of Iraq”

“the MTV generation

good thing we're not a democracy”

“yah mtv

it must have made you not want to read





or to comprehend?”

“

”

“must have made you turn only to personal attacks against people you discuss issues with instead of discuss what's wrong and right in the world”

“LOL - GGGGS - Like I said, it's all about personal insults with them. No solutions.”

“yah personal attacks





against mtv”

“Hey Boy Hiker! Still stealing an honorable name....well cowboy, What was the loss statistics for Vietnam by this time? Any guess smart guy...20TIMES what we have lost to date.
IS there a foriegn Power directly invested in the defeat (i.e. China and Russia)...no...okay Iran and the wierdbeards are...

In fact the only similarity is that many in our side are doing their dead level best to lose this to discredit the military and the government. It is sad, becuase many of these people may be able to reinact the opposition to the War in England about the time of the Battle of Britain. The ones screaming the loudest for accomodation will be the ones screaming the loudest about "Where is our military?"”

“it must have made you not want to read





or to comprehend?”

HikerBoy
9:26:02 AM
10/18/06”

“the MTV generation

moonglo
9:20:25 AM
10/18/06

what the diff biff????”

“....well cowboy,

This advice comes not from some anti-war coalition but from the Iraq study group under the former Republican secretary of state, James Baker, set up by Congress with President George Bush's endorsement.”

“the diff biff, is a "generation" isn't personal

per‧son‧al  /ˈpɜrsənl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[pur-suh-nl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–adjective 1. of, pertaining to, or coming as from a particular person; individual; private: a personal opinion.
2. relating to, directed to, or intended for a particular person: a personal favor; one's personal life; a letter marked “Personal.”
3. intended for use by one person: a personal car.
4. referring or directed to a particular person in a disparaging or offensive sense or manner, usually involving character, behavior, appearance, etc.: personal remarks.
5. making personal remarks or attacks: to become personal in a dispute.
6. done, carried out, held, etc., in person: a personal interview.
7. pertaining to or characteristic of a person or self-conscious being: That is my personal belief.
8. of the nature of an individual rational being.
9. pertaining to the body, clothing, or appearance: personal cleanliness.
10. provided for one's discretionary use: Employees are allowed 15 vacation days and two personal days.
11. Grammar. a. noting person: In Latin portō “I carry,” -ō is a personal ending.
b. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of the personal pronoun.

12. Law. of or pertaining to personal property: personal interests.”

“Reading Is Fundamental”

“i must apoligize for my harsh personal attack on you moonglo. i didnt mean to hurt your feelings so i am sorry









too bad none of you will adress the issue The Vietnam moment is at hand.”

“And I am pretty sure that if James Freaking Baker had been assessing our actions say following the Debacle at Tarawa he might have made the same conclusion...But we either win here...whatever the cost...or we will fight at home. James is a Blueblood Bushy...who gives a rats patootie what he thinks. For ever JAMES high and mighty Baker I can show you a Lt., Capt. or Sgt who says we are winning.

I this is the left's wet dream revision of Vietnam...why are guys getting legs blown off...getting prosthetic legs and fighting to GO BACK???HMMM>...Why are they returning????
last edited: 10/18/06 9:53:08 AM”

“"....in the end, impossible to achieve an outcome that was compatible with the sacrifices that had been made,"

And that my friends is the crux of the biscuit.

XL, through back-channels China urged the U.S. to keep fighting the Vietnamese.
It was in their interests to see their centuries-long enemy tied up with the U.S.

We've seen this kind of playing both sides done by the U.S. with the Iran/Iraq conflict during the '80s.
Ya know, the Iran-Contra scandal......weapons for cash to fund the Nicaraguan conflict.”

“Lending force to these rumours, Republican Senator John Warner has spoken of a deadline for withdrawal and some version of a "three-state" solution.

Every US thinktank is now busying itself (at last) with alternative futures for Iraq.

All intelligence out of Iraq suggests this is no longer a functioning state.

American troops are in occupation but not in control. Their departure can hardly undermine security, except possibly that of Baghdad's green zone, and that is largely privatised.”

“The Baker report isn't even out yet. Lets wait for it instead of debating selective leaks.”

“Their departure can hardly undermine security, except possibly that of Baghdad's green zone, and that is largely privatised.”
HikerBoy
11:02:18 AM
10/18/06

I can't agree with that. Things could get much worse.”

“Lets remember BAKER was part of the HW Bush clan, a died in the wool Blue Blood...

Now as for the Vietnam connotation....I shall quote from a letter I wrote over a year ago...still works for this moment.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Title: Your 15 minutes are up, please create another crisis for additional attention

Apparently the mainstream media is in about the same state as the old Soviet Union in the late 1980’s. Like the aging socialite with the evidence of too many hours under the plastic surgeons knife becoming pathetically visible, the major media of today wishes to relive those heady days when THEY RULED. They and their associates on the Left have taken to arm chair quarterbacking every action, reporting with glee each death of a brave young American in the war on Islamic Fascism. For a true picture try (http://www.suntimes.com/output/otherviews/cst-edt-ref15.html).
Now we see the ultimate, they have adopted as their poster child a woman (Cindy Sheehan) whose history indicates more intricate changes of position than Teddy Kennedy getting out of a sunken car. Each time I listen to these tirades (or read the scripted letters in a newspaper) I remember my Uncle (a Pacific Theater World War II veteran). He would listen to the anti America bunch in the late 1960’s and early 1970’s. He would listen intently and then walk away mumbling, “No matter how you slice it, its still baloney.” For anyone laboring under the misconception of comparisons to “Vietnam” I encourage you to read a message from one Iraqi citizen on (http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/2005/08/message-to-cindy-sheehan.html). Casey died in Sadr City in April of 2004. A Chicago Sun Times story (8/15/05) reports today the streets are quiet, and the people who led the revolt are even assisting in patrolling the streets.
To answer the question of “Why did we invade Iraq?” and the challenges that Iraq did not attack us (usually invoking the tired World War II reference). On September 11 around 3,000 people died in an attack as cowardly and dishonorable as December 7. The big difference was that very few of the citizens who died on September 11 had taken an oath to protect and defend the United States. In World War II it was the Imperial Japanese Government (using the results of a twisted religious devotion) which attacked us. Yet we struck first at Germany, and in the process of winning the war we invaded Italy. Now here is the kicker, I will agree that Germany, by the process of unrestricted submarine warfare had pretty much asked for it. But what pray tell did Italy do? Judging from their military exploits from the 1930’s and 1940’s the only reason they were on the Axis side was…..well we had France.
Italy was invaded in the process to destroy the fascism of the period. Iraq is part of the process of a similar destruction of a twisted belief system which seeks one thing. Destruction of the freedoms we enjoy in this society. In reviewing history I have wondered something. In March of 1936, the Nazi Army reoccupied the Rhineland. It was actually 30,000 very lightly armed troops, and even Hitler admitted any action by the French or other League of Nations (predecessor to the UN) participants would have forced the Germans to retreat and ended their plans. This action was a gross violation of the Treaty of Versailles (the end of World War I). I wonder what actions the French and British would have taken if they had known that by the sacrifice of only a few thousand soldiers in enforcement of the Treaty they might prevent the horror of the next nine years.
In conclusion I wonder how long the war would last and how violent the opposition would be if the aptly named Senator Durbin and cohorts would adopt the position of support (as did the Republicans when we went into Bosnia). I still wonder why we went into Bosnia, and why we are STILL there. And if you are still stuck on the issue of WMD’s please go to The Washington Post Sunday, August 14, 2005; Page A18….OOPS!

The references are there...look em up.”

“Personally, I love the "run home to daddy strategy" that George W. is using.

George W. couldn't do anything to make the war better, so he got his daddy to give James Baker a call.”

“Agreed. First mistake...kinda like if any President had been stupid enough to ask JIMUH for help in negotiations with a foriegn power...oh wait..Clinton did.”

“WASHINGTON (CNN) -- After months of heated rhetoric slamming President Bush's Iraq policy, the Senate's top Democrat moved into new terrain by declaring the Iraq war a worse blunder than Vietnam.

"This war is a serious situation. It involves the worst foreign policy mistake in the history of this country," Sen. Harry Reid, D-Nevada, told CNN's "Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer."

"So we should take everything seriously. We find ourselves in a very deep hole and we need to find a way to dig out of it."

Asked whether he considers it a worse blunder than Vietnam, Reid responded, "Yes."

Comparisons to Vietnam are nothing new, but a "worse than" designation from a top lawmaker is.

Sen. Chuck Hagel, a Nebraska Republican who has been one of the war's most outspoken critics, told Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice in January that President Bush's plan to send 21,500 more troops to Iraq "represents the most dangerous foreign policy blunder in this country since Vietnam."”

“If only Bush had listened to Cheney....



Ooops, he did. Cheney didnt listen to Cheney.
last edited: 2/18/07 10:12:24 PM”

“Ya know... it's okay to talk to yourself, every now and then.

It's even okay to argue with yourself, on occasion.

But when you start losing arguments with yourself, it's time to call in the professionals.”

“What happened to the 25 million flower petal brooms? I sent the question to; D&W@whiteouthouse.gov, but no answer.”

“wow, Cheney was right for once.. who'da thunk... too bad he changed his mind.”

“"This war is a serious situation. It involves the worst foreign policy mistake in the history of this country," Sen. Harry Reid, D-Nevada, told CNN's "Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer."

Easy to say when you didn't have to make the decision and are playing politics. Nothing like sending a clear message to our servicemen and women overseas. I hate politicians.”

“Thinking about David Halberstam's death and the Bush administration I heard about how many people from Pat Robertson's fourth rate college have positions in the Bush administration I realized one key difference between the Vietnam War and the Iraq War.

David Halberstam's book on the people who led us into Vietnam was plausibly (if ironically) titled the "best and the brightest." Bush appointees, like in the old Soviet system, were chosen not for ability or competence but for ideology and loyalty. And like any program staffed on the basis of ideological commitment and willingness to knod and agree enthusiastically - performance has been poor.”

“Vietaq Irnam?”

“Depends on what the meaning of "is", is.”

“http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/09/11/MNF2S2NQM.DTL

[ snip ]

The testimony by Petraeus and Crocker before a joint hearing of the House Armed Services and Foreign Affairs committees - with just enough charts and statistics showing a decline in violence - appeared to be a successful plea for more time.

But for some, the charts also recalled the statistics and charts that a former defense secretary used three decades ago to mark tactical progress amid a strategic failure in Vietnam.

"For me it was ominously reminiscent of Robert McNamara using that kind of technique," said Wayne White, former head of the State Department's Iraq intelligence team and an adviser to the Iraq Study Group. "There was a lot of overstatement of the positives and understatement of the negatives."

In Iraq, White said, real progress always seems to be 12 to 18 months away.

The Petraeus testimony, he said, "leaves us pretty much where we were before the hearings happened. The results are mixed."

[ snip ]”

“Let's use this day to blast the man and the military that has kept us safe since the tragic day of 9/11 6 years ago, huh tilt?

For this one day Tilt, crawl into mommy's bed and give it a rest. Today America is banding together, save a few extremists and mourning our losses and cheering our success thus far. Today you've chosen to speak as if you are OBLs spokesman. Give it a rest.”

“ "There was a lot of overstatement of the positives and understatement of the negatives." - Wayne White

Really. It seemed pretty bleak to me. Basically he said that without the continued American military presence, Iran is in a good position to obtain hegemony. He seemed to be in basic agreement with the recent National Intelligence Estimate. Looks like a slow draw-down of forces is in the cards, so that fewer troops will have to do the job the peak number of troops were charged with.

Yeah, real optimistic.”

“Right, we're supposed to not talk about the Patraeus report, even though it's been highly anticipated for months now, simply because Tilt is a hypocritical homophobic America hater? F that.
last edited: 9/11/07 6:24:26 AM”

“No Mutt, just suggesting we don't reply to Osama/leftie propaganda.”

“
U.S. to help Iraq security for another 10 years, says general
By Roxana Tiron
Posted: 01/18/08 12:01 AM [ET]

Iraq�s military and police are far from being self-sufficient despite the expected addition of 80,000 forces within a year, according to the U.S. general in charge of training Iraq�s security forces.

Army Lt. Gen. James Dubik told lawmakers Thursday that Iraq should be able to take charge of its internal security by 2012. But it will need more than 10 years to defend its external borders � a timeline that could spark a renewed political debate about any U.S. plans for withdrawal of troops from Iraq.

President Bush has said repeatedly that U.S. forces will be reduced as Iraqi forces stand up. Democrats, including the presidential candidates, have called for a swift withdrawal of most U.S. forces from Iraq and expressed concern over the wear and tear on American forces facing a prolonged stay in that country.

”

“So whats that make Germany and Japan, and South Korea, and Bosnia, and ,,,,?

Tilty, this was put forth YEARS ago. Sadly the comparisons are so sophmoric that they truly are beneath even you.

Tilty you have evidenced a much higher level of intelligence than having to pull this outdated disproven crap.”

“Tilty you have evidenced a much higher level of intelligence than ...


???”

“"Ok who is this Pot fellow and why is he calling me black?" - Mr.Kettle”