GOT ANY ATOM BOMBS LYING AROUND??

“"When told of the video by an Associated Press reporter, Berg's father, Michael, and his two siblings hugged and cried."


You mean you want to bomb the AP?”

“AP and the damn sandlot militia over there...sickening groups of people over there...they are just not people who will ever change...raising my damn gas prices...ya know they got something to do with it...ill stop now ....nothing else to say ...”

“They wont change? Well then yes, we should nuke 'em all now!”

“YES WE SHOULD!!! i was going more for the surprise drop some old school bombs on em so that maybe we could lie and say that it must have been the WMD that we didnt find...”

“I live near a Mosque. Maybe we should start there?”

“Whelp, the ante has been "upped" now.

Be prepared for more of this.


BTW - Keep in mind, shepie, that al-Queda doesn't control oil prices. The Saudi's do. If you want to direct yer anger at anything, it should be the Saudi's; they are at the root of this whole thing.

Was Mr. Berg military, or civy?”

“They just said he was a civy.

as bad as this is, it's only going to get worse.


Welcome to the next level!”

“said he was civilian...


i know they dont cotrol anything but the video cameras they use so often but its just angering to see the AP and all splash this on the family like that...a good ol all around #&%!$up if you ask me..”

“i say go ahead an give control to the people there and pull out all military and let em go at it...mount some video cameras around cities and let us watch em go at each other...”

“Do civilians go there of there own free will? I don't think you could pay me enough.”

“damn i can get a good thread started cant i...
ha”

“damn i can get a good thread started cant i...
ha”

“You sound like what you're condemning sheppy.”

“Really, the rage you feel right now is comparitive to the rage the Arabs feel about what we did.

Now, cutting someone's head off and undressing in front of a female might seem worlds apart to us, it's very close to them. They did take it to the next level, everyone over there better watch it when the new photo's come out.”

“The Iraqi "insergents" blew up 20+ car convoy and captured all living American civilians....So now they have many more to do this too....

The gas is going up do to China is sucking up all the extra from OPEC with their booming economy, thanks to all the american companys sending their work over to them. The ole Supply and demand theory...

Iraq! I liked what someone else on here once said....Take Saddam clean him up....Give him a few billion dollars, fly him into Bagdahd have him walk off the plane with AK-47 and get into limo....Pull out all the troops and have them take over the southern Iraq area for the oil...Then let Saddam imploy his rein of terror on the Iraq's again for say a month or so then nuke the phucking place, except for the south where most of the oil is....”

“This may be besides the point but I don't think they've released the really offensive photos in regards to the Iraqi prisoners”

“"The Grave of the Hundred Head" seems applicable to me.”

“.....but, it's Saddam's boys doing this.”

“bear - just today, they were talking about what was better for them to do, release them, or have them leak out. They're coming out either way, but yer right, they haven't hit the street yet.”

“Saddam WAS an ally.....now he's just an old goat.”

“They will get out.....
They always do....

I have a real bad feeling those civilians captured Satuday are not going to make it back home. They will be executed in some public way to shock the world and be billed as a revenge for the abused prisoners”

“Has anyone noticed the resemblance of todays affairs with the Sean Connery Movie "Wrong Is Right"? Has this been discussed here?”

“There are some on this forum who have suggested that our military casualties in the War On Iraq have been relatively light and that we should just bear up and accept it as the price to pay for our "neo-imperialist goals".

That is to say that it is not a big deal that we have lost our people there.
Or, "...hey, its a war....people die..."

I do not agree.”

“Our threshold of "acceptable losses" has changed over the years. WWI was something like 160,000 (?) US soldiers. Now, one is one too many.”

“"Now, one is one too many......"

right on!


""Has anyone noticed the resemblance of todays affairs with the Sean Connery Movie "Wrong Is Right"? Has this been discussed here?"............'




never saw the movie.”

“214,000 Civil war
53,000 in WWI
292,00 in WWII
33,000 Korea
47,000 Viet Nam
147 Gulf War (1991)”

“I believe the definition of acceptable losses in WWI was barbaric.

Right is wrong is a movie about our involvement in a Mideast war over "stolen" Nuclear Weapons. The press in the movie I believe acts like it does today and there were lots of Islamic fundementalists blowing themselves up. I saw it ages ago (80s) but it might have been dead on”

“If we were engaged in a something like WW I, I’m sure Americans would have the stomach for numerous deaths. Invading a defenseless country on false pretenses is a whole nother thing.

Laqtis – It’s not just disrobing that went on in Abu Ghraib. The DoD has determined that there were at least two murders, sodomy with various objects and rapes of young boys. I don’t see escalation on their part.”

“There are some on this forum who have suggested that our military casualties in the War On Iraq have been relatively light and that we should just bear up and accept it as the price to pay for our "neo-imperialist goals"

And then there are some on this forum who have suggested any sacrifice for the WOT is an unbearable toll, and we should just pack up and leave the terrorists alone as an apology for what we did to cause 9/11 to ourselves.

One side or the other is pathetic, eh?”

“Iraq is responsible for the terrorist attacks?”

“Don't muddy the issue bearmagnet.”

“Yeah, as I recall, we invaded Iraq because they were harboring "weapons of mass destruction".”

“Here it comes.

Mutt is about to argue that only the stupid believed that but its all right because the illegal invasion is a done deal and we’re obviously better off for it.”

“"This shows the true nature of the enemies of freedom," White House spokesman Scott McClellan told reporters. "They have no regard for the lives of innocent men, women and children."



So what have we learned after Daniel Pearl was executed?”

“Someone stole a bicycle from me a couple of years ago. They hated freedom, obviously.”

“I'd like to kill the bastards that did this personally. I can't and I'm glad I have the capacity to understand that bombing everything that moves is just going to lead to more deaths on both sides.

It's the people who believe that all the hatred caused by this will eventually bring peace that just amaze me.”

“ I don’t see escalation on their part."
VioliN
03:34:13 PM
05/11/04

Technically, it might not be escalation, but who the #&%!$ put these guys in charge of meting out justice?”

“Oh -- they're ALL self-appointed.


I've heard quite a number of people minimizing the effect of recent disclosures concerning the "fratboy games" at Abu Ghraib.

I wonder what they're thinking now.”

“Mutt is about to argue that only the stupid believed that

Ignorant, violin. People believed that because they were ignorant - they wholeheartedly swallowed the government propaganda without searching for real analysis.

However, there were people like you who were aware of the grander geopolitical strategies involved, but continued to believe the true casus belli of the Iraq war was WMD. That, violin, is the essence of your stupidity.”

“However, there were people like you who were aware of the grander geopolitical strategies involved, but continued to believe the true casus belli of the Iraq war was WMD. That, violin, is the essence of your stupidity."
Mutt
08:44:17 AM
05/12/04

So...............we invaded to make the world safe for democracy? Or to make the US safe from terrorist attacks?

I know I feel safer!”

“And then there are some on this forum who have suggested any sacrifice for the WOT is an unbearable toll, and we should just pack up and leave the terrorists alone as an apology for what we did to cause 9/11 to ourselves.

One side or the other is pathetic, eh?"
Mutt
03:42:57 PM

I for one don't believe that an apology is in order, Mutt.

You are one of those who have suggested that opponents of Dubya's foreign policy believe so.

The War On Iraq is NOT the War On Terror it is inspiring more.

Only an ignorant mook would believe that WOI is part of the WOT.

Mutt, it you are under 35 and a real stud, please join the infantry.

I'll send you a care package over there.”

“LOL! Where the hell have you guys been? All this doom and gloom and “expect more of this”. Haha! They’ve been doing this shlt sense they made the first crude blades. This is nothing new to their culture. You should see some the stuff on the Mussada (SP?) web site of the things the Islamic extremists have been doing to Jews. These sick phucks will tear a person to pieces with their bare hands. I don’t expect any escalation as long as we keep our dam heads about us. We won’t retaliate by doing the same and we’re putting the kibosh on the prisoner abuse crap too. As long as all the hand ringers don’t start showing the terrorists have power over us through the media by screaming “Pull out!! Pull out!!” (wow, that sounds like the first time I got laid!).

Of course this is all Bush’s fault. Rummy too. These terrorists were forced into killing the guy. They have no responsibility in the matter.”

“I the U.S. had not invaded Iraq......

There was no good reason, except for the oil.

Is the oil worth all this mayhem?”

“I for one don't believe that an apology is in order, Mutt.

Okay, but there are many who do.

You are one of those who have suggested that opponents of Dubya's foreign policy believe so.

Now you're resorting to fabricating a strawman to discredit me. For an intelligent person, Mark, you have an incredible dearth of debating skill.

The War On Iraq is NOT the War On Terror it is inspiring more.

Only an ignorant mook would believe that WOI is part of the WOT.

I cannot fathom why you embrace this kind of close-minded ignorance. There is a real debate; an exchange of ideas here (sometimes), but I have yet to see you give an intellectually honest analysis. Seriously. All I've ever seen you do is post this kind of crap: "You're an idiot to believe that. Bush is terrible, so everything coming out of the whitehouse is wrong. Our entire foreign policy/strategy is wrong, Bush is bringing down the country, etc., etc." Going by what you've posted, I have to say you've got to be one of the least informed, least capable debaters here. That puts you on the level of Tilt - do you really want to be compared to that scumbag? The terrorist apologist?

Look, Mark, you may be right that the WOI is going to increase terrorism (although you provide *no* reasoning, analysis, *nothing* but ad hom), but the WOI was indeed a part of the WOT, for better or for worse. And I've droned on and on about the hows and whys of it. You can't just handwave that away as if it wasn't put on the table. You're particularly infuriating because you're obviously reasonably intelligent, and we agree on social issues for the most part. But with foreign policy you retreat into a fog of close-minded ignorance, handwaving away any counterpoint without offering substantive rebuttal. Why is that?? Why participate at all if that's all you can do? Moreover, why participate on a regular basis if you can offer nothing of substance? I don't get it.”

“However, there were people like you who were aware of the grander geopolitical strategies involved, but continued to believe the true casus belli of the Iraq war was WMD. That, violin, is the essence of your stupidity."
Mutt
08:44:17 AM
05/12/04

There were those of us, and I believe Violin was one, who understood what the administration was trying to accomplish and believed it too be reckless and poorly concieved. We took the president's words about the reasons for war and held him to them because we dismissed those reasons that were not spoken.

It's impossible to hold a man accountable for what he did not claim to be attempting.

The doctrine of preemption was then, and is now, an unsatisfactory reason for invasion of another country. If there was not an imminent threat, it makes it an invasion of choice, which is an important distinction when discussing the justification of the war.

So obviously, Mutt, the objection to war was not just about who believed there were or weren't WMD. I had hoped that you would be able to see that eventually.”

“So obviously, Mutt, the objection to war was not just about who believed there were or weren't WMD. I had hoped that you would be able to see that eventually.

Yeaaahh....I don't think it went down quite the way you've described it, Phaedrus. For months the debate centered around the WMD casus belli. It also focused on Saddam's connection to terrorism (in a literal sense). I didn't see anyone but me discuss anything but propaganda for quite awhile. Maybe I just missed it - I don't know. But I do know your take on this is misleading at best.”

“Personally, I understood your arguments, but they seemed beside the point to me. Misleading is not leading, and possibilities for good coming out of the invasion did not, IMO, excuse the attempted deception.”

“I never did understand the fascination with realizing propaganda was false and pretending that justification of the war was inextricably linked to it.

=+=+=+

No response, eh, Mark? Going to take your ball and go home?”

“I never did understand the fascination with realizing propaganda was false and pretending that justification of the war was inextricably linked to it.


Calling it propaganda doesn't change the fact that this administration firmly placed WMD at the center of their justification, not just to the American public, but to the international community. They linked it, and it is right they be held accountable to their claims.”