cuttin heads off

“The Army is taking pictures of naked Arabs. The Terrorists are cutting off heads.

Washington is threatening the Iraqis with Marines.

Send in the Marines!!!!


Marines are your best friend or worst enemy. The Marine Corps doctrine, training, and guerrilla warfare expertise is the solution to this debacle.

As soon as the Marines have success the Army pulls them back. This is Vietnam all over again.”

“If the pictures of naked Iraqis is all it is, we've been lied to. We've been told there were murders and rapes that occured under US watch. This president doesn't apologize for just anything, so Id be surprized if there weren't a bunch of things more horrible than just some naked pictures.

At any rate, I'm in full agreement with you that this is becoming a vietnam-like situation, and that the fukheads who murdered Nick Berg should be hunted down.”

“Send in the Marines!”

“What's wrong with naked pictures?”

“That chick was hot back in the day!”

“You ain't lyin', BB!”

“I watched the Nick Berg video.

While I have always said we should not have gone to Iraq, if they are going to stay there, then #&%!$ing do it right.


Follow a scorched earth policy.”

“Hey Chili36 you have obviously never been to Iraq.

The earth is scorched already, the whole country is a scene from Mad Max.

You need a lot of heat to scorch sand.”

“Then on Monday I went bp'ing.”

“You need a lot of heat to scorch sand."
manuka
09:49:51 AM
05/14/04


I imagine 60 to 100 Million Degrees Centigrade would scorch it some more though.”

“We should have nuked 'em?”

“No, mutt. We should have never been there.”

“I haven't seen the video of him having his head cut off and I probably won't watch it. To me there are some things just not worth watching.

It does amaze me how people here can get so upset over the way we are treating the prisoners when we see how they are treating non-soliders over there. So far as I know we haven't set anyone on fire and hung them up for everyone to see.

War is war and sh1t happens. It isn't meant to be played fair. You do what you have to do to win.”

“My sentiment exactly, Ewker.

My philosophy was don't go. But now that you have gone ahead and jumped in, then kick ass and take names.”

“See, that pisses me off. I hate hearing people try to justify our actions with theirs. Obviously, we don't want a terrorist government, so we shouldn't even be close to comparing our set of values with their set of values. The reports from the prisons say we've beat prisoners to death, raped, and humiliated them in ways that break the laws of the Geneva convention. We have some answering to do for that - irrespective of the assbags with a video camera and a sharp knife.

As for the terrorists that believe it's okay to kill civilians because (supposedly) of the actions of the American military, while praising God: they should be hunted down. If we can catch them and bring them to trial, great. If they want to be martyrs at the business end of an m16, even better.

I think there are some unanswered questions about the death of Nick Berg, but the video is pretty plain in its message. People with this little respect for human life cannot be reasoned with.”

“So you do think we should have nuked 'em, now that we've gone in.”

“Chili, I didn't think we needed to be there either. But since we are do the right thing and get it over with quickly.

I can't even begin to imagine how this parents felt knowing that there son had his head cut off and that there is a video showing it.”

“And the "nuke em" rhetoric is insane.”

“Mutt, I think Phaedrus nailed it. These people are beyond any use of reason.


Nuke them? Where? How?


It is not like they are concentrated in one spot. If they were, and that was a viable military option, then yes, other than seeing the body bags come home, I would say we should crispy fry their asses.”

“I am not trying to justify our actions with theirs. It is war, there is nothing pretty about it.

It amazes me that we are suppose to obey the laws of the Geneva convention on prisoners but no one else has to. Kind of a double standard isn't it.

Torture of prisoners has been going on way before either of us were born and it will continue whether we like it or not.

Like I said earlier I don't think we should have been there to start with. But we are so do what you have to to win.

BTW, it was reported last night that those pics shown of the rape's of the prisoners were faked. The Ny Times or one of those papers that showed the pics first admitted to it.”

“But since we are do the right thing and get it over with quickly.

Would you be so kind as to enlighten us as to your plan? Let's say you were in charge; how would you "get it over with quickly"? What would you do differently? Would you level whole towns? That's quick. Would you line up anyone suspected of not being on our side and shoot them? That's quick, too.

What the hell!? Would you pack it in and go home? They (meaning upwards of 80% of the population) don't want us there. They could care less about our concept of democracy. Saddam is gone. There were no WMDs. Our image across the globe is in the toilet. Can we really expect to accomplish anything there now?”

“It amazes me that we are suppose to obey the laws of the Geneva convention on prisoners but no one else has to. Kind of a double standard isn't it.

Torture of prisoners has been going on way before either of us were born and it will continue whether we like it or not.


Hold on, Ewker. What do we stand for, if not the rule of law? If we lose our moral authority by hypocritically abusing prisoners of war, how do we justify our actions when we condemn terrorists, dictators and despots who abuse their populace? It is not a double standard, but rather one that we should be enforcing in our own ranks if we intend to enforce it elsewhere. There's plenty of reason to be disheartened by our actions in Abu Ghraib.

As for the fake pictures, do you have a link?”

“I wasn't even aware that they had released any of those photos, so I'm doubtful as to whether they have been proved fake.”

“Can we really expect to accomplish anything there now?

Of course! Good gawd how short sighted can you get. We've already accomplished quite a bit. It's true that the tactical failures of late may erase what successes have come of it, but that remains to be seen. Like I told violin, ignorance is curable.”

“Kleetn, I think that is the only viable option.

If the powers that be are not going to exercise that option, then bygod, leveling towns and thinning the herd is the only thing left.

Warfare is ugly. Damn ugly. How do you put "rules" on it. I mean the whole #&%!$ing purpose is to kill the other mother#&%!$ers before they can kill you.

In WWII, we didn't sit down and try to figure out #&%!$ before we fire bombed German cities. An artillery barrage into an "occupied" area was meant to eliminate the opposition, it sure didn't differentiate between civilians and combatants.

I was on this board opposing the war when it was pretty damn unpopular to do so. I still oppose it.

But, if we are not going to bring them home, then we need to fight this thing on the lowest common denominator. Take one of the sorry bastards we have in captivity and cut his damn balls off let him bleed to death on video. Send a damn message that "an eye for and eye and a tooth for a tooth" is serious #&%!$ing business and that we actually forgot more about warfare than the rest of those sons of b*tches will ever learn.”

“Great idea, Chili. Let's become what we're supposedly fighting. That'll show em.”

“Hey, I'm angry as hell about what they've done to Americans over there. I'm sad about it. But the day we do anything like what you suggest is the day I move to another country. We are supposed to be the good guys, remember? The beacon of liberty and justice and all those ideals we once had.”

“My point is that total extermination of the problem is the only way it will go away.

The fanatical terrorists are never going to be deterred by "conventional, civilized" warfare.”

“In WWII, we didn't sit down and try to figure out #&%!$ before we fire bombed German cities. An artillery barrage into an "occupied" area was meant to eliminate the opposition, it sure didn't differentiate between civilians and combatants.


This is demonstrably false, as well. Steps were taken to avoid civilian casualties where possible. There were no smart bombs then, but still tried to hit military targets without purposely targeting civilian areas.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki, on the other hand, could be easily taken on with your argument.”

“My point is that total extermination of the problem is the only way it will go away.

The fanatical terrorists are never going to be deterred by "conventional, civilized" warfare."
chili36
11:10:33 AM
05/14/04


We agree that warfare is a fairly ineffective tool against these groups, but your assertion of all-out warfare seem even worse, IMO.”

“i agree w/you, Phaedrus. we're supposed to be the good guys, and we're the prisoners' caretakers...no matter what they may or may not have done. would you stop your children from punching each other in the face by punching them in the face? if you did, you'd go to jail.

i didn't know there were any pictures of the supposed rapes either, but if there are, i hope to god they are fake!”

“We are supposed to be the good guys, remember? The beacon of liberty and justice and all those ideals we once had."
kleetn
11:07:50 AM
05/14/04


Liberal. Eutopian blissninny.

;)”

“Yeah, Lyra, I knew there was some question about some of the pictures surrounding the treatment of prisoners by the brits, but this is the first I'v heard about forged rape photos, and Ewker has disappeared.”

“My point is that total extermination of the problem is the only way it will go away.

The fanatical terrorists are never going to be deterred by "conventional, civilized" warfare.

Agreed. Absolutely correct. Still, we are not Nazis and talking like that is a bit scary.

And lyra, you actually agree with me, not my less-intelligent brother.”

“We agree that warfare is a fairly ineffective tool against these groups, but your assertion of all-out warfare seem even worse, IMO."
Phaedrus
11:13:29 AM
05/14/04

Than what? Sitting around getting our asses shot off while on a "police action"?”

“kleetn, Phaedrus...what's the dif!”

“I'm still here but I do have to work some :) I heard that report on the news last night about the pics. I am trying to find a link to it.”

“Than what? Sitting around getting our asses shot off while on a "police action"?"
chili36
11:18:49 AM
05/14/04

Hell yes! Flatten a few more cities, kill a few more civilians and it just gets worse for us.

While Mutt loves to argue against the idea that keeping the moral high ground in this conflict is imperative to success, I firmly believe it. The more we are percieved as a crusading nation, or one who doesn't care about the death toll on the other side, the more "moderate" arabs start giving money to the terrorists, harboring them, joining them,and helping them in other ways.

You're right, IMO, when you say we shouldn't have been there (without a serious exit and rebuilding strategy), but we are. Now what?

I don't have that answer, but I can see what will just make it worse.”

“I still think we need to get the #&%!$ out.

I don't see where staying is going to do one bit of good.”

“And lyra, you actually agree with me, not my less-intelligent brother."
kleetn
11:18:43 AM
05/14/04


He hasn't been the same since I stole his pocket protector.”

“I don't see where staying is going to do one bit of good."
chili36
11:28:20 AM
05/14/04


I'm not sure that you're completely wrong on that. The big problem is making sure the place doesn't turn into Afghanistan when we leave.”

“Is that a Chapstick in your pants?”

“this is pretty good!

The Onion: What Do You Think? ”

“Chapstick? LOL! i think that was a...BURN!”

“Hey lyra, WHO ASKED YOU?!

Kleetn rhymes with beatin' so nyaaahhhh!”

“What's obvious to me is that the videotape is having the desired effect.”

“Comparing the actions in Abu Ghraib to those of admittedly sick #&%!$s is the worst sort of moral relativism. Both are wrong and should be condemned by righteous people. Read the executive summary of the Taguba report for yourself to see what our side did. You can get the full report in PDF form by googling "taguba report full text". The rape scenes circulated around the internet did come from a pornographic website but what Taguba documented is just as bad.


al-Zarqawi is a Jordanian, not Iraqi. Nuking Iraq to punish them for the actions of foreign terrorists makes as much sense as invading Iraq because a bunch of Saudis attacked us.

I thought that our rational for being there was to force a change in Arab culture (at least since the WMD thing didn’t pan out). How would leveling cities improve our security?

I’m really surprised at your comments chili. If we did as you suggest, we’d hand al Qaeda a victory they could never achieve on their own.

Certainly, track down the bastards and give them what they deserve. Killing tens or hundreds of thousands of innocents would be a sin we couldn’t hope to be forgiven for.”

“Well said, violin.

I just found the stories bout the faked rape videos and pictures. Let's hope that the right wing sound-bite culture isn't trying to use them to spin the idea that all the evidence of torure in Abu Ghraib is fake. That would be a patent lie.”

“lyra, re: your Onion link... dang funny but sadly, I've heard some people spout thoughts eerily close to those. Ay yi yi. ”

“At the present pace of how we are handling this, what do you think the odds are that anything will be any different 10 years from now?


How about None:None

Again, let me state that somebody should have figured that out before we invaded Iraq.

If we are going to make the decision to engage, will showing the world we are "civilized" at warfare really going to make a difference.

Is there really a polite way to kill someone?”