Screw the Oil Companies

“All this time and WayTooSilly still doesn't know a pound from a dollar.

:P”

“I picked up 99 cent gas maybe four or five years ago.”

“there you go, the average in the summer, driving season,
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/steo/pub/special/summogas.html”

“ok, so six years ago. If you read it, it makes clear that in March the average price was less than $1. So certainly cheaper than that in many locations.”

“And Sarge - how is saying you don't know what Socialism means - starting on you.

It's pretty clear you don't.”

“4-5 years ago?

Let's get real about this and look at some numbers. This web page is from the land of fruits and nuts (California) but it's not that bad of an estimate.

http://www.energy.ca.gov/gasoline/statistics/gasoline_cpi_adjusted.html

Year 2000 Gas Prices (5 years ago)

Yearly Average - $1.6634
Yearly Average Adjusted for Inflation - $1.8249

Peak Price - $1.847
Peak Price Adjusted for Inflation - $2.0263

So adjusted for inflation a 3x increase would be $5.50-$6.00/gallon in 2005 for California. I don't think I ever say rates this high in the US.
last edited: 10/28/05 11:00:04 AM”

“Of course it's a bad estimate Pitts. California often has the highest gas prices in the country.

I've just posted information from the Energy Information Administration confirming that in the first part of 1999 the average gas price in the USA was less than $1.”

“That's a report from 2000, so these numbers aren't inflation adjusted to 2005. Your dollar doesn't buy what it used to.”

“Another one from the EIA Pitts.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/wrgp/mogas_home_page.html

I do believe the average did get above $3.”

“I'm with the commie libbies on this one.
I think the Gas company CEOs along with the Drug company CEOs should be hung by their balls.”

“Yadda, Yadda, Yadda. The debate can continue for years.


Fact is:

Equilibrium occurs where supply equals demand.

Want lower prices? Either (A) increase supply (aint going to happen) or (B) decrease demand.

As long as people are standing in line for the big gas guzzling SUV's the oil companies will move prices to maintain equilibrium. Say what you want, but that's just the basic law of business.”

“$3/gallon in 2005 ... a 3x increase means $1/gallon 2005 dollars.

$1 in 2000 = .90 in 2005 (inflation)

Show me where gas cost $.90/gallon in 2000.

It would actually be more productive to build from the price of gas in 2000 and see what that same gallon of gas would cost in 2005 given the 3-fold increase you propose.

The web page you posted from 2000 showed $1.46 as a projected average (it was not the actual average but an outlook of gas prices for 2000).

If you look at the actual historical average for the US it was $1.52/gallon for 2000 with a peak of $1.71 and a low of $1.30.

3 x $1.52 / .90 = $5.07 ... that would be the current price of gas if it reflected a 3x increase over nationwide averages in 2000 taking inflation into account.

Where did gas cost $5.07/gallon in 2005?

I am not trying to be snotty here. I just don't think the math supports your claim.”

“the argument that fuel prices in other countries is higher is ridiculous. The US has a poor mass transit system compared to those countries. America is a much more spread out nation than Britian or other Euro countries. We depend on our vehicles much more than them.”

““Yadda, Yadda, Yadda."

Leave it to chili to swoop in and start throwing legal terms around. LOL!”

“the argument that fuel prices in other countries is higher is ridiculous

I do believe this is true, but also because every country has a different energy policy.

Venezuela, as I quoted earlier, produces gas for it's citizens and they pay .14/gallon for gas at the pump (who knows where else they pay for this).

So looking at global fuel prices on a country by country basis is comparing apples to oranges just like comparing non-inflation adjusted numbers within a given country (like the US).”

“ENS - So, to make sure I understand you correctly, prices should be determined by how badly someone needs something? The greater the need, the lower the cost it should be?”

“Pitts. You're argument just doesn't hold any water. I'm not sure what you're tyring to prove here.

I never claimed to adjust the price for inflation. I just said there had been a three-fold increase in the price of gas, which there has been.

Gas was available for an average of 99 cents in 1999. that same average was up over $3 in the wake of Katrina. Just over three times the price.

Why are you trying to cloud this clear indication of what gas prices have done?”

“Gas was available for an average of 99 cents in 1999. - WTS

Gong!

”

“I saw that after an unexspected 8% drop in prices the gas in Israel is all the way down to $4.83 a gal.

Quit your cryin'!”

“You don't like being wrong do you Sarge, which must make life very hard for you?”

“This is the guy WK is hanging his daughter's education on.

"Der! Duh! Chomp bomp a chewy chomp!"
”

“If you divide year 2000 prices by year 2005 prices (to compute a 3x increase) you are mixing gas costs based on different values of the dollar.

Here is a way to look at it.

US gas price = $2.85
Hong Kong gas price = $43.58

HK pays 9.5x what we pay for gas! How outrageous!

Now as of today 43.58 Hong Kong dollars = 5.62 U.S. dollars. But we are talking total cost here, right?

Is this correct? Of course not. Basically by mixing 2000 dollars with 2005 dollars this is what you are doing. A 2000 US dollar was worth more than a 2005 US dollar.”

“Looks like voodoo math to me dude...”

“Nigal: I bet you bury your money in a mason jar and bury it in your backyard. :)

My great-grandmother buried silver dollars in a mason jar in her backyard. They found them after she passed away and they were worth a small fortune as collectors items. Validation of her depression-era developed savings strategy.
last edited: 10/28/05 12:14:05 PM”

“Phuck no! that's just stupid. It's in a brown paper bag in the trunk of my car. Why, where do you kepp yours?”

“LOL@Nigal

Easy access, eh Nigal? :)”

“If gas prices are going down, then, it's time to start another WAR!!!”

“That's it pitts, change the subject. I'm sure the average american family really cares about the price of fuel in Hong Kong, which btw has one of the most complete and advance public transpaortation systems in the world, it geogrpahically tiny, and much of which is an island.”

“Actually pitts I knew a young black proffesional that did not trust banks. He kept his life savings of $40,000 in his trunk.”

“according to the eia, the average gas price in 1999 was 122.09.

The lowest month, February (the one you quote), was $1.014.

If you are stupid enough to only consider one month, February, $1.014 * 3 = $3.039. The February 2005 price was $2.002, roughtly twice, not three times.

If you pick the lowest month, February, and compare it to the highest month this year, then yes, it went up 3 times, but that's some fuzzy math there bud.

There is some conflicting information happening here with the libbies.

First, as the gas prices rose, they were arguing that it isn't the high prices that's the problem, but the sustained high price. Interesting that you could all of a sudden start looking at a slight dip in prices from 5 1/2 years ago, the only big dip in 10 years, and use that as the measurement.

So which is it libbies?

Is it the day to day high price of gas that's a problem, or the sustained high prices that's a problem?”

“Actually pitts I knew a young black proffesional that did not trust banks. FrankeNigal
12:26:36 PM
10/28/05

is that the PC way of saying a drug dealer ;)”

“Hong Kong, which btw has one of the most complete and advance public transpaortation systems in the world

”

“I wonder how much he would charge to take people from home to work and back. Great on gas savings and he gets some excerise”

“Sigh…

Actually in 1999 the average was $1.17/gallon with a peak of $1.31/gallon and a low of $.94/gallon. So I think the fact that you could buy gas for less than .99/gallon in 1999 is correct (and in fact you could get it for .94/gallon but I have no idea where). So let’s compare apples to apples.

$1 in 1999 = .96 in 2005 (inflation!)

A 3x increase in gas from 1999 would be (in 2005 dollars):

$2.98/gallon for 3x the 1999 low
$3.66/gallon for 3x the 1999 average

Year to date:
The low in 2005 is $1.82/gallon
The average in 2005 is $2.32/gallon

So we are 1.64 x the low in 1999 and 1.58 x the high value in 1999.

That's not a 3-fold increase in either case.”

“http://www.urbantransport-technology.com/projects/china/ Sarge shows his lack of knowledge of the world outside his window once again.

Pitts, from the low price in 1999 to the high price in 2005 is a more than three-fold increase. What part of that is tricky to understand. The fuel cost is determined by many factors, including seasonal demand, but I've never claimed it wasn't. Does it really matter to a family what they are paying for gas in February as compared to August?”

“Sarge shows his lack of knowledge of the world outside his window once again.

I pasted a photograph. A real photograph. I left it up to the reader to draw their own conclusions.

If you drew the conclusion that you can base a national infrastructure based on 1 picture (of a rickshaw), then it is YOU who has shown their lack of knowledge, or, at the very least, wisdom.”

“Educate yourselves.

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/P116177.asp
last edited: 10/28/05 1:08:25 PM”

“Does it really matter to a family what they are paying for gas in February as compared to August?

It matters a great deal. Fuel cost to an individual are a combination of the price of the gas and the way it is used (how much it costs to fill up and how often you have to fill up). You said earlier that California had the highest gas prices in the nation, which is not true (Hawaii is the highest right now). That said, California doesn't have the highest fuel cost and neither does Hawaii. The cities with the highest fuel costs to a family over a year to date in 2005 are:

Birmingham, AL ($2,420)
Nashville-Davidson, TN ($2,359)
Atlanta, GA ($2,326)
Raleigh-Durham, NC ($2,318)
Washington, DC-VA-MD ($2,255)
Orlando, FL ($2,146)
Charlotte, NC-SC ($2,074)
Richmond, VA ($2,045)
Indianapolis, IN ($2,023)
Albany-Schenectady, NY ($1,944)

California isn't even on the list. People in these cities have to pay more for gas at the end of the year because they have to use more.

To really understand what these costs mean to a family you have to know these same numbers in 1999 and adjust them for inflation.”

“Albany-Schenectady, NY ($1,944)

That's one list I wish my region wasn't one.”

“I was shocked that Chicagoland wasn't there. I wondered when I read it if they included suburbs in with the larger cities. It's easy to live in Chicago without a car but it's next to impossible in the burbs.”

“I bet the fuel cost for the Adirondacks is even higher. Gas prices are often 30 or more cents per gallon higher than Albany's and then it's often a 20 to 40 mile drive just to get groceries and even farther to get things like clothing.

I always gas up before I go up there. I remember seeing gas that was $3.00 a gallon about a month before Katrina hit. I saw over $4.00 after the storm.
last edited: 10/28/05 1:43:11 PM”

“Ok Pitts, since you seem keen on trying to divert attention from the main issue - California typically has the highest gas prices in the lower 48.

http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/gasprices/?cnn=yes”

“I did not divert attention from the matter at hand. You made the following incorrect statement:

“I think the key though Pitts is that prices have more or less tripled in the past few years.”
WayTooScary
10:04:14 AM
10/28/05

I pointed out that the reason it was incorrect was that you weren't taking inflation into account and showed you how one might do the math.

It was at this point that you chose to define "past few years" to be 6 years ago and "tripled" to be from the low price in 1999 to the high price in 2005. I thought I was generous going five years back when I adjusted the gas prices for inflation from 2000.

Here is a chart of average gas prices in the US since 1918 with and without inflation taken into account. I'll let the people on the thread see if they can find a 3-fold inflation-adjusted price increase.



http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/Inflation_Rate/Gasoline_Inflation.asp”

“Why do I get the feeling I'm well prepared to do a presentation at the next Exxon board meeting?”

“Looking at the charts, it appears gas spikes during Republican administrations and dips hard during Democratic ones. It should be the other way around. What, are Dems encouraging high gas-guzzling SUV usage?”

“Buck: If you want to get technical here is the data on the inflation rate:

http://inflationdata.com/inflation/inflation_rate/AnnualInflation.asp

This is the stuff that keeps Alan Greenspan popping Prilosec.”

“Democratic presidents are pro-pollution.”

“Pitts, that chart, shouldn't the lines start together?”