Fahrenheit 9/11

“I just returned from seeing the movie. If you are a strict fact-checker like all of our conservative friends on this site, you will already know that Kansas is a conservative state. Well, in this conservative state, and in a conservative county, this movie sold out. (Just an interesting point.)
My suggestion stands. People should see the movie and decide for themselves whether there is any merit in it. I will say that there are a preponderence of indisputable facts in the movie, as well as direct quotes from W, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, etc.”

“I have no problem with this movie, other than the timing. I'd hate to see tons of politically-motivated movies come out trashing candidates at each election.

Also, why do "direct quotes" mean anything to you libs when just a few months ago you couldn't give a rat's-patooty about direct quotes from Democrats regarding Saddam's WMD threat?

Lastly, publicity and controversy sells films. Conservatives kicking and screaming and protesting this flick just cinched it up to be a best-seller. Michael Moore fabricated the Disney-release controversy and the "Fahrenheit" name controversy just to get more media coverage.

Instead of conservatives whining about this flick, conservatives should just make one themselves and hope to the media gods that it's controversial and that it makes its way to the talking heads on tv for millions of dollars worth of free publicity before it's released.”

“It's sorta funny... so many liberals protested that The Passion of Christ promoted bigotry and violence, when in fact we kept hearing report after report on the news how violent criminals, theives, and even a murderer came forward, confessed their ways, and changed their lives as a result of the film. Now comes along a liberal agenda film and we already hear on the news about an assualt from whacked-out members of Moveon.org getting violent with a movie-goer. Hmmmm.”

“Kennedy calls Michael Moore 'a master of the misleading'

Kevin Diaz, Star Tribune Washington Bureau Correspondent
June 25, 2004 KENN0625

WASHINGTON, D.C.-- Liberal filmmaker Michael Moore said Thursday that he edited a Minnesota congressman's words out of his movie, "Fahrenheit 9/11," because "He didn't answer the question."

Rep. Mark Kennedy, R-Minn., fired back by accusing Moore of lying about their filmed encounter.

He said Moore "recounted to reporters a conversation between us that never took place."

Moore's comments, on the eve of the film's opening today, came in response to earlier criticism by Kennedy that his answers were cut from a segment of the film where he was asked about how many members of Congress have children serving in Iraq.

Moore said that despite the hard feelings, the Kennedy scene is one of the movie's "funniest" moments.

Kennedy "looked at me like I'm crazy," Moore said, in a new account of their meeting that differs significantly from an earlier transcript provided by the film's producers. "He'll get a big laugh and Republicans will agree with him."

Kennedy called Moore "a master of the misleading" after he saw a film clip of Moore's ambush-style interview of him.

In it, Moore is shown asking Kennedy to help him get members of Congress to get their kids to enlist in the military and fight in Iraq.

According to Kennedy, he told Moore that he had a nephew on his way to Afghanistan.

In fact, Kennedy says, he has had two nephews in the military, with his own son considering a career in the Navy.

Kennedy's side of the conversation, however, was cut from the film, leaving him looking bewildered and defensive.

In a Capitol Hill appearance Thursday, Moore denied censoring Kennedy's remarks because they didn't fit into the premise of his film, as Kennedy charges.

"He mentioned that he had a nephew that was going over to Afghanistan," Moore recounted. "So then I said 'No, no, that's not our job here today. We want you to send your child to Iraq. Not a nephew.' "

A transcript of the exchange -- posted on Moore's Web site -- does not include the same dialogue Moore related to reporters.

The transcript also quotes Kennedy telling Moore that he'd be happy to help in his recruitment drive, a promise that the film's producers say Kennedy failed to keep.”

“So exactly how many members of the Senate and Congress have children fighting in Iraqi?

Just curious.”

“How many are so poor they can't afford to buy health insurance? How many are going to need a Soc. Security check to survive when they retire?”

“Wow $21,000,000 in the first weekend. That's nearly as good as Gilli did.

A true theatrical triumph!”

“i guess that was hypocritical of me to call anyone out on the movie without seeing it myself. i'm going to go see it before i make any more comments on it. thank you for pointing this out to me.”

“"Wow $21,000,000 in the first weekend. That's nearly as good as Gilli did.

A true theatrical triumph!...."


Fact spun outta context, Nigal.

Nice try.

Doc's are not suppose to make alot of cash up front. It's unheard of. They mostly make their money on DVD and rental.

This movie set a record for tickets sale and gross by any other Doc in history, or so I'm told.

Not defending the movie, but let's not poo poo something that is obviously popular.

Same thing with Passion - Some people didn't care for the subject, or the person making it fr that matter, but that didn't take away from the fact that it made a lot of cash, meaning a ot of people dug it.

It would be interesting to see what the dynamic is here; meaning, how many of these people that went to go see this movie, saw pssion as well. That would be a goot *sheep indicator*......!”

“Dang baume! Stop being reasonable. Are you trying to wreck TT, or what?”

“So,has anyone seen any good Conservative documentaries lately?

Sorry, ones with John Wayne or Charleton Heston don't count.”

“I read about the planned film festival that will be screening 10 conservative movies including "Michael Moore Hates America".

Sounds like a real hoot.”

“"Bedtime for Bonzo"?”

“I can’t (and won’t) comment on the content of the film because I haven’t seen it and won’t see it. The thought of Moore making a Krispy Kream run on my dime just makes my skin frickin’ crawl. LOL! I can however comment on the style he uses to make his films. “Spin” doesn’t even begin to describe the form he chooses to use to make fact say what he wants it to. To even suggest he is presenting something without bias is simply ignorant. But then again, he can spin it any way he chooses and be as biased as he chooses. It’s the idiots that will try to use the film as a matter of fact that are the truly ignorant ones.

It’s about as valid as quoting Ann Colter.”

“It had the best opening ever for a documentary. Variety is reporting that it will expand to over 2,000 theaters in the next 10 days and could gross nearly $100 million.

Keep whining you neocons. Moore owes you folks.”

“that is on the fast pace. It might surpass Left Behind in another month. Oh but wait, it's going to get burried by Spiderman II this week. We won't hear another peep about this propaganda piece when Peter Parker gets unleashed! LOL!”

“Keep whining you neocons. Moore owes you folks."
violiN
10:33:13 AM

Ha ha ha ! ! !

Payback is hell.”

“If it keeps doing well, maybe good old-fashioned greed will kick in around here and I won't have to drive to Columbia, SC to see it.”

“People are tired of being lied to.


Revolution anyone?”

“Up the revolution!!!”

“It would be interesting to see what the dynamic is here; meaning, how many of these people that went to go see this movie, saw pssion as well. That would be a goot *sheep indicator*......!"

I have seen neither and do not plan to.
I guess I am a centrist after all.

All y'all get out of the ditches and get on the road we got places to go!”

“I am not making the connection between "The Passion Of Christ" and "Farenheit 9/11. (other than "The Passion" is about a bleeding-heart liberal).”

“Well, I saw it and was unimpressed. It had some very strong and powerful moments that worked for me, but it was also manipulative at times, and disorganized at times. It didn't tell me anything new and was misleading at few points. I guess it might be educational for people who haven't followed the news regularly.”

“`Fahrenheit 9/11' sets new documentary mark, topping $100 million

DAVID GERMAIN, AP Movie Writer

Michael Moore joined the $100 million club as his political assault "Fahrenheit 9/11" became the first documentary ever to top that mark at the domestic box office.

Moore's condemnation of President Bush's actions regarding the Sept. 11 attacks had a weekend haul of $5 million to lift its total to $103.35 million since opening in late June.

"The American people have not been given the whole story about these last three years and they don't feel they've been given the truth from the White House," Moore said Sunday. "So they've gone to the movie theaters to look for the truth and to begin the important discussion and debate that needs to take place in this country."

The previous best domestic gross for a feature-length documentary was $21.6 million for Moore's Academy Award-winning "Bowling for Columbine." That film took nine months to hit that level, while "Fahrenheit 9/11" did more business, $23.9 million, in just its first weekend.

continued...”

“I wonder if it's more than teh Democratic base that is seeing this movie. If not and some of these people are undecides, then there could be a bad moon on the rise....”

“Excerpted from: E!online

...Not too shabby for a film that cost just $6 million to make...

...Although its audience is chiefly Democratic, the film is reportedly also scoring very well with independents. Perhaps most surprisingly, the studio says surveys suggest that more than 40 percent of the Republicans who have seen the movie would recommend it to others...

...More (sic) also says that the film has benefited from free publicity, mostly courtesy of conservative types who continue to complain about the film, try to ban it from theaters, encourage illegal downloading of the film or evict Linda Ronstadt from Vegas casinos when she praised the film.

"A month ago it was all about, 'This movie is just going to preach to the converted.' Well the converted came the first weekend...and as each weekend goes by it's not the hardcore political people--they did not wait--the people going now are the people that live in that great gray middle of America, people who don't necessarily consider themselves political people, but who are interested in the movie now because they turn on the TV and it's Linda Ronstadt one day, it's people on Fox going nuts, going absolutely nuts...and they go, 'Maybe I should go check this movie out.'"...”

“I think he'll have less trouble finding investors the next time around.”

“Nader to Moore: I like you but you are a fatass!

In an open letter to Moore from http://www.votenader.org/why_ralph/index.php?cid=83

“Your old friends remain committed to blazing paths for a just society and world. As they helped you years ago, they can help you now. They are also trim and take care of themselves. Girth they avoid. The more you let them see you, the less they will see of you. That could be their greatest gift to Moore the Second—the gift of health. What say you?”

From this letter and the attached letter it seems that even the left are being alienated by Moore.”

“Anyone see "Control Room"? I found it a very interesting window into a world I hadn't seen up close. It's a better documentary, IMHO, than F-911.”

“Ralph has lost his marbles.

Next time you're over there, give him this link.”

“My only "complaint" about F-911 is that it's being called a documentary.

It's not a documentary. A documentary, by definition:
1 : being or consisting of documents : contained or certified in writing
2 : of, relating to, or employing documentation in literature or art; broadly : FACTUAL, OBJECTIVE


Note FACTUAL and OBJECTIVE. Even his supporters agree that Michael Moore's film reflects his bias and point-of-view.

To call this a "Documentary" is a crock.”

“Wanderer is right, the things that Bush is saying in the movie can't be facts because he is lying most of the time.”

“"cha-ching", I knew BB would try to get in the last word!”

“Not to split hairs... but your definition appears to be for the adjective 'documentary' from the Merriam-Webster Dictionary.

The American Heritage Dictionary has this defintition for the noun 'documentary':

A work, such as a film or television program, presenting political, social, or historical subject matter in a factual and informative manner and often consisting of actual news films or interviews accompanied by narration.


That seems like a pretty good description of Moore's film to me.”

“It is, V-man, I like the "in a factual and informative manner" portion of that description.

Again, even his supporters agree that MM presented things with a bias & rom his point of view. That's OK, I have no issue with that at all... I only take exception to something being labeled "Documentary" when it is material presented with a slant.”

“Haven't we already been over this?

To say that this isn't a doc, is to say that any doc out there isn't truly a doc. WTF do I mean?



Take a lot at anything that is on the History channel. My World Civ Pof won't even accept those if we try to cite them. Why? Explaination is that he has no idea what the presons backprund is, their education, were they got there sources, what's their true motivation is, how biased the piece was and most important WHAT WAS LEFT OUT.

Under the lat part I memntioned, that is what I'm talking about.

Not to get too in depth, but there is a "doc" out there that I am pretty knowledgible about. I know the people who put it together and I know exactly what happened during the time the "doc" covers. Is this "doc" also biased? Yep, you betcha. Why? Anyone, like myself, could easily claim that by not putting in the "doc" important things that I thought needed to be in there, I could declare it biased, towards one, or more areas because of the exclusion of certain events. Now, that will not be the case, as this "doc" was shorten so that it would qualify to play on the art film circut. I'd challenge any one wout there to find a "doc" that didn't leave something out, or wasn't biased. It can't be done. People out side the film can lead creditiblty to the piece, then one must look at those people and see if they have any adgenda, etc. Do you see a circle forming?

Now, the question then becomes, "well, are you saying that Moore laft somethings out?" and I would answer "Most likey" with a "who doesn't". Is it pure propaganda? I'd say "good luck proving it", as propaganda is intentional missleading by a organiaztion to get a group of people to not know the truth and to think what that organization is saying is true, to incite a reaction. Well, there is a couple that Moores piece might fall into, but not everything. Trust me. There are courts out there that foam at the mouth to get something there way that is Slander/Libel. No matter if teh President is a public figure or not, you can still get sued under those twos issues. Now, it's hard to prove those two, and for good reason, but the way some agrue of this, it would seem that you would thinkn they have a good case.

Hey, if the right doesn't agree, go make your own movie about Moore. Better yet, keep sitting around at home #&%!$ing on this board. Make sure that happens on elections day, too.



(this post is in no way directed at anyone person, or faction, just the authors attempt to get both parties to understand that sitting around complaining about Moores "doc" is a waste of valuable time that you could be out hiking, taking your loved one to a nice dinner, or other wise move on to a different issue, like why was the author posting naked the other night and is true the he was chicken pecking his posts as well)”

“I know y'all wish you were a swell speller like myself!”

“""Good post Q.

The questions always come back to:

Did the author INTENTIONALLY or INADVERTANTLY leave certain things out? Makes a big diff.

Did s/he do so because they were trying to promote a certain point of view?

Again, I'm not slamming MM's flick, he has every right to make it, and you have every right to go see it. I'm only saying that it should be called what it is... an attempt to promote a point of view.

In that, it is not 100% objective, MM himself admits that, as do most of his supporters. If that's the case then it's not a true docmentary, as it only includes selective facts.

I don't see where there's a disagreement here....."




You wanted this over here, right?

LOL!”

“"Did the author INTENTIONALLY or INADVERTANTLY leave certain things out? Makes a big diff......"


Yes, it most certainly is. Kinda like when the school yard bully gets is ass kicked - I didn't mean for his face to hit my fist 80 times.... or his lucky I only hit him 80 times with my fist and not my foot...LOL! It's hard to say either way, but when he's down, people are happy that he's down, no matter how it happened (read - mob mentality and the right to see a good car wreck lol!)



"Did s/he do so because they were trying to promote a certain point of view?....."

Of course, but it's true of any of it. You think Custers family thinks highly of the people who put out a doc about Little Big Horn?


"Again, I'm not slamming MM's flick, he has every right to make it, and you have every right to go see it. I'm only saying that it should be called what it is... an attempt to promote a point of view....."


That's a real good point. How can we regulated it? Should we just leave it up to the people to make up their own mind? People that take Moore's work as gospel are just as guilty as the people who take the word of Fox News as gospel. I know that your not talking a side. I'm only trying to address the circle this becomes, and had been around since Ugh first drew the first cave painting, that damn Republican! LOL!”

“I was just thinking about the black eye Murdoch, Ailes et al collected when their suit against Franken was laughed out of court. Can you imagine.... if the Bushes brought a suit against Moore and it met the same fate?”

“Well, could it be that those that attack Moore might be seeking revenge?

It is, after all, the Fox people running it up the flag pole.....”

“Hey, Ped, I saw "Control Room" also. I would recommend it if for nothing else than to see the real consequences of the war we have waged. Any country that is willing to wage war should be willing to see, up front and unfiltered, what war looks like. The sanitization of the Iraq war by the administration amounts to a real coup. Heck, we aren't even allowed to view caskets. Freedom of the press anyone????”

“The funny thing is, all these people who #&%!$ about Moore's movie....Have you seen it? Can you tell me what you didn't like about? What parts really were fictituous for you? Can you prove what he is saying is mistruths? Where? What?

I just get tired of people saying this and that about the movie and then when I ask, "Did you see it??"

They say, "No!"

If you're gonna piss and moan about it, see it. But don't regurgitate some shlock-jock conservative rehtoric at me.”

“Good point, rosey.”

“I never complained about the movie... read the post, it says:

"My only "complaint" about F-911 is that it's being called a documentary.

It's not a documentary. A documentary, by definition:
1 : being or consisting of documents : contained or certified in writing
2 : of, relating to, or employing documentation in literature or art; broadly : FACTUAL, OBJECTIVE

Note FACTUAL and OBJECTIVE. Even his supporters agree that Michael Moore's film reflects his bias and point-of-view.

I have stated my support of MM's right tp state his opinion in any manner he chooses, print, film, whatever. Just be HONEST, and call it what it is...

Geez, even Michael Moore admits he has a bias... what can't you guys?”

“Sure but bias does not equate to fiction and once again, the right seems to be trying to draw false parallels in order to convince a weak-minded population that something is worthless because they don't agree with it.”

“???????

What are you talking about? I can't follow you, consider me one of the "weak-minded" populace.”

“The parallel that because this movie does have an opinion, it is invalid. I hear it all the time, every day.”