Go See Fahreheit 911

“I, Nigal Arbuckle, can neither confirm nor deny the validity of the facts, opinions and emotions portrayed in the above post until such time that a link is provided from an independent and unbiased source. The independence and unbiased ness of said source will be determined by myself and if said source is found to not be independent or unbiased the facts, opinions and emotions of the above post shall remain unfounded, untrue and false. In such case I shall continue to believe as I do in my own mind and shall continue to view my personal point of view as being the only right and true one.

Thank you for your time.”

“LOL Nigal - that was good. (of course, I think Tilt's intuitions are on target, but I haven't been able to read Bush's mind)

BTW: I was disappointed by the movie, some of it was very good, true and powerful - some of it unecessary and some of it was misleading.

The one thing it did make me think about was the possibility that it was the Saudi's worries about Iran that led Reagan and Bush1 to be supportive of Saddam evern after he used poison gas on Iranian military and to allow Saddam to crush the Shiite rebellion Bush-I had invited after the Gulf War was won.”

“Read Bush's mind? Ask Karl Rove! LOL

Sorry, that was too damn easy.... <G>”

“And yes, Michael Moore was completely over the top at times... and parts of the movie I found revolting... but those were the very parts I was glad to have seen, thinking about it later. We need to see the unsanitized version of what is being done in our names.”

“an unsanitized view would not be so one sided with nothing but misleading malice intended. there is much more going on over there than what was in the movie, much of it good and cheerful. there are many soldiers that do not share the point of view of those interviewed for the movie.

also, why bring up the number of congressional children in the service (active duty) if you aren't willing to say how many there actually are that are eligible and how many have served at some time in the past? i don't know what the numbers are. it very well could be a disproportionate few but the way he did it is just an example of his presenting only bits of information in the whole picture.

the movie did have some points to ponder.”

“I’m glad you went to see it baume.”

“Anyone hear or see Moore's foreign press conference?

Yikes! I'll see if I can dig up the transcript tomorrow.”

“"the movie did have some points to ponder...."

Yep, I agree. One point was that why is it that we don't hear more about the good that goes on over there. I thought that seeing an outlet let Fox would be just generating the good news as a direct response to the "evil" left media. Their man Bush in down in the "polls" and I would think tha tthey would want ot help them and force the other networks to rebut them. As a viewer, I'd like to see some good stuff that is going on, seeing that the immediate response to our overwhleming force is "we're beating up on poor defenceless people". Rule one of media - Alter the war, no matter what, into your favor in order to gain the upper hand in propaganda."

Laqtis - 2 year degree in TV/Video Production, 5 year teacher in Video Production Arts.”

“The one place I thought Moore was really misleading was when he said (and I'm not quoting exactly)

"1.6 Billion dollars, that's how much the Saudi's gave to the Bush family (long pause) and their friends and the businesses they were involved with"

Now he makes it sound like they just handed over all that money, but what he is really saying is the Saudi's did that much business with companies connected to the Bushes and their friends - but given the size of the network of companies connected to Bush, Cheney and all their associates and their involvement in the oil business, its not that amazing that they did 1.6 billion dollars worth of business over the years. Yes the connection is worth noting, but Moore tries to make it sound so much worse that it was.”

“I have to tell you guys, the point in the movie that really pissed me off the most, is when the woman who lost her kid in Iraq was trying to converse with the foriegn lady who also seemed to have endured a loss, and that uninformed, lack of any facts, conservative #&%!$ (much like some of the conservatives on here ((Nigal)), lamblastedthe woman, accusing her of posing for cameras. I'll tell ya what, if that were me, and I lost my kid over there, I would have pummeled that person.”

“ped - yes, good point. After my wife got done throwing up, I commented on the fact that this action by the Bushies is nothing less than what Herbert Walker and Prescott Bush did with the Nazis. This family has a history of dealing in business at any cost.

How did you like the part where the Taliban leaders came to discuss business, and being recepted by the Bushs, months before the 9/11 attacks?

What about the part where Condi and Powell were on visual record, commenting that they knew Saddam did not have WMD, only months before the 9/11 attacks?”

“"1.6 Billion dollars, that's how much the Saudi's gave to the Bush family (long pause) and their friends and the businesses they were involved with"

this is more skewed than you mention. not only is the number not surprising due to the fact that they are in a large network of oil whatevers, much of it, i can't remember the numbers for sure but somewhere around $1 billion of it, was before the bushes were involved with the businesses that received it.”

“BB - I heard an interview with Lila Lipscomb in which she said that the woman who falsely accused her came up an apologized later.

Preemptive pummeling would have prevented that reconciliation.”

“"Let's hear it for everyone who told GW to stay out of war before it started."
Dunadan
12:06:15 AM

Me?

I "liked" the part where the visiting Taliban guy responded to the American woman who accused the Taliban of mis-treating women.

That sissy piece of fundamentalist crap said, "I feel sorry for your husband..."

You know how punks like him deal with "uppity" women.”

“"I have to tell you guys, the point in the movie that really pissed me off the most, is when the woman who lost her kid in Iraq was trying to converse with the foriegn lady who also seemed to have endured a loss, and that uninformed, lack of any facts, conservative #&%!$ (much like some of the conservatives on here ((Nigal)), lamblastedthe woman, accusing her of posing for cameras.”

I would never have done this. Nice to see I live on in your heart Buddha. :)”

“Baume - I don't think Moore's claim was patently false (as some have tried to portray it). It seems to me that Bush buddies were involved in those businesses even before they brought the Bushes in. Still, using the 6 degrees of separation idea (that everyone is indirectly connected to everybody by 6 or fewer connections) - the 1.6 billion dollar figure isn't nearly as meaningful as Moore spins it.”

“It's sad to see George 1 putting himself in such a compromising position with the Saudi's. Wouldn't it be better if people who served in the public sector waited about ten years or so before they started renting themselves?”

“Well, they do wait longer than they used to. Michael Deaver tried to cut corners on that and wound up in prison for a short spell. You might've seen him on the tube a couple of weeks ago holding Nancy Reagan's hand at the funeral.


BTW --

There were some interesting folks on C-SPAN last week... a panel on Saudi Arabia (wish I had my notes! <G>)... an ex-patriot, some guy from Rand, someone from State... the usual mix.

One thing most of them seemed to agree on was that the US had done a bang-up job supporting the royal family for the past 70 years (aHem), but that the four ageing princes needed to ease up on the populace. They've been keeping the lid on too tightly for too long and if they don't begin to democratize slowly, they (and we) will have much larger problems later.

Anyway, the youngest of the four is 71, so the status quo is bound to shift in the next few years... They were saying 3 to 5.”

“very possible, Tilt. But, will Saudi embrace an ideal that the next 7 generations have ben taught was evil?

Sounds like more of the same, despite the little progress acheived in that country.”

“I happened to catch Bin Laden's half brother on some news talk show the other day.. It was an attempt to set the record straight.. that most of the Bin Laden family are upstanding wonderful people with good religious morals, yada yada..

At first, I almost felt sorry for the helf-brother -- schooled in the US, successful, and explaining away his 'famous' half-brother as the wayward son of a respectable family.

The Bin Laden interviewed went on to say that Michael Moore's claim that the Bin Laden family was given special treatment, and were allowed to fly with the FAA had all the planes down was 'simply not true.'

I believed him for a while. He was one of those guys, that the more he talked, the less credible he became. At the end, when '60 minutes, or 20-20' was asking him this question? "If you knew where your half-brother was, would you turn him in?"

He first responded with something that sounded like, yes.. he needs to be punished. A confirmation question by the reporter, and he then responded with something like, yes, he needs his day in court.. (totally different answer).. then after asking the same question (more or less) the third time.. he responded with, "He's my brother. Would YOU turn your own brother in?"

Sorry, I don't know if Michael Moore told the truth, stretched the truth, or just plain lied. I enjoyed the movie, I thought it was well-done. I understand that 'bowling for columbine' is really good as well. I do know however - that any credibility in the Bin Laden half-brother I may have reserved in my heart originally in the early part of the interview was shot all to hell after hearing the half-brother go on and on...”

“I guess Moore's message to the world didn't come across like he wanted it to.

Moore Ugly American”

“"He is more than occasionally described as a stereotypical "ugly American" -- overbearing to people of different cultures, oblivious to nuance, unsophisticated in politics and arrogant in temperament."


hehe.. sorry Jay.. just messing with ya.”

“Not even I would say that about Buddah. LOL!”

“bastards!”

“I like the piece with Dubya speaking in the early '90s and he had no countrified accent.

Someone was able to teach him that.

Now maybe they can teach him to read the newapaper.”

“That sounds more like George, LOL”

“Come on Tom, don't be such a girlymon!

”

“hehe.. Hi BB. (lurking bastard you.)

;)”

“Nigal, is there something about der Gropenfuhrer chompin' on that thang that appeals to you?”

“I want this though..

”

“"Nigal, is there something about der Gropenfuhrer chompin' on that thang that appeals to you?"

Absolutely! I love a good cigar. I’m sure that’s not what you were thinking because of your falic fetish but as they say, “Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.”.”

“And sometimes you feel like a nut ---”

“That's "phallic", you putzmeister.

Lickin' a seegar just don't do it for me.

I like to roll up a little Drum tobacco into a cigarette now and then.”

“Moore: "Gibson Quit After White House Warnings"

Controversial director Michael Moore claims Mel Gibson backed out of financing his hit documentary Fahrenheit 9/11 after Republican sources told the actor he would never be invited to the White House again. The explosive Palme D'Or-winning documentary, which examines American President George W Bush's decisions following the September 11 attacks and the run-up to the war in Iraq, was rejected by their original financier Icon, owned by Gibson. Moore says, "We were just starting the film when I got a call from my agent who said he'd spoken to someone at Icon who was wondering if there was a way to get out of the deal. They said they'd received calls from several top Republicans - people connected to the White House. These people made it clear that Mel Gibson wouldn't get any invitations to the White House if they went ahead and financed the film." Icon dropped the deal soon after, but luckily for Moore, Miramax boss Harvey Weinstein stepped in and saved the day.”

“"I like to roll up a little Drum tobacco into a cigarette now and then."

Tobacco...right.













It's reefer madness baby!!!”

“Oh my gosh, what an insidious plot.

If someone provides the money to make a propaganda movie with the sole purpose to to make you look bad you would not invite them to dinner?

Please say it ain't so, what is the world coming to when we will not feed our enemies.

On another front, how come Micheal Moore would not finance the pic himself with the profits from 'Bowling'? not prepared to risk his own money perhaps.

I am curious about this film, but will not 'feed' MM by paying anything to see his movie.
Of course to balance out MM we should all go watch a copy of Leni Riefenstahl's "Triumph of the will", another propaganda piece that I have not seen.”

“Sheesh! Next thing ya know Bush will refuse to go talk to groups that hate him like the NAACP....wait a tick!”

“Maybe Leni will make one about Dubya, kinda like she made for her old boss.

"It's reefer madness baby!!!"
Nigal
01:38:00 PM

To what do you refer?

Its pretty lame that Mel would cave in so.
Dubya won't be livin' there much longer anyway.”

“Leni is dead MarkO.

Perhaps Mel did not cave in, perhaps he did not agree to how his money was to be used.

Perhaps Mel did not care but did not think he would make a profit. Why should Mel risk his money where MM would not risk his own ??

Someone that does not finance your pet projects is not necessarily against you, they just think that you should use your money not theirs. I know the concept of personal ownership is foreign to you, but for some people it does exist.”

“Why, oh manuka, would the concept of personal owership be foreign to me?
I do own some worldly trinkets.

Mel Gibson has gone over the deep end anyway, as evidenced by that wack job movie about torture and cruelty he made.

I believe Mel is tetched.”

“"Leni is dead MarkO."

Well, Dubya is brain-dead.

Maybe they could work something out.”

“Mark's rambling incoherently again...”

“didja hear about a Vegas Hotel giving Linda Rondstadt the boot for dedicating a song to Michael Moore.

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=entertainmentNews&storyID=5710258”

“I guess,Aladdin casino knows that their customers - rude losers and suckers back Bush big time.”

“Yep -- that story has popped up in a couple of places. I think it's got its own thread somewhere...”

“I tacked it on the 'P.C. gone too far ?' thread but I appreciate your ped 'zing'.”

“hey, i've been to alladin casino before.”

“I said rude because:

"That dedication angered some Aladdin guests who spilled drinks, tore down posters and demanded their money back, said casino spokeswoman Sara Gorgon.

"We had quite a scene at the box office," she said.”