Go See Fahreheit 911

“IMHO: The Hitler analogy usually sheds more heat than light. Comparing someone to Hitler is basicallu like calling them a piece of $h!t. Whether its Bush, Saddam or people who don't like Bush (as in the new pro-Bush ad) - its hardly ever instructive.

I think the current pres. Bush is the worst president since Herrbert Hoover or maybe even Franklin Pierce - but I don't see the Hitler analogy as more informative than calling Bush a turd. It might be fun, but it ain't informative.”

“Sacco, I think Hitler posed as a socialist, and enacted some nominally socialist reforms, but that's as far as I go with it.

Here's another author, since you didn't like the last one:

Nazism was inspired by Italian Fascism, an invention of hardline Communist Benito Mussolini. During World War I, Mussolini recognized that conventional socialism wasn't working. He saw that nationalism exerted a stronger pull on the working class than proletarian brotherhood. He also saw that the ferocious opposition of large corporations made socialist revolution difficult. So in 1919, Mussolini came up with an alternative strategy. He called it Fascism. Mussolini described his new movement as a "Third Way" between capitalism and communism. As under communism, the state would exercise dictatorial control over the economy. But as under capitalism, the corporations would be left in private hands.

Hitler followed the same game plan. He openly acknowledged that the Nazi party was "socialist" and that its enemies were the "bourgeoisie" and the "plutocrats" (the rich). Like Lenin and Stalin, Hitler eliminated trade unions, and replaced them with his own state-run labor organizations. Like Lenin and Stalin, Hitler hunted down and exterminated rival leftist factions (such as the Communists). Like Lenin and Stalin, Hitler waged unrelenting war against small business.

Hitler regarded capitalism as an evil scheme of the Jews and said so in speech after speech. Karl Marx believed likewise. In his essay, "On the Jewish Question," Marx theorized that eliminating Judaism would strike a crippling blow to capitalist exploitation. Hitler put Marx's theory to work in the death camps.

from richardpoe.com.”

“Now here's a point from TYSK I agree with:

"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority,
keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." —Samuel Adams"
aero
02:44:58 PM
06/28/04


yeah, if we could just get the tiredless minorities to worry about the overall political system instead of which one can get their candidate to the whitehouse, this country might start to head back in the proper direction.”

“I agree.”

“I liked Chili's take on Clinton's affair with Monica. Like I said at the time, at least Kennedy had grown-up sex with grown-up women.

My take on Clinton is that too often he tried to have it both ways in his personal decisions. He has an affair, but doesn't fvck her so its not adultry. He smokes dope, but doesn't inhale. He avoids serving in the military, but won't openly resist the draft. Each time he does things halfway - tries to sort of have his cake and sort of eat it too.

He kept making me think of Nietzsche: "It's not your sin, but your mediocrity in sinning that cries to heaven."”

“Maybe his Sinning was bigger than anyone ever discovered?”

“mutt, same thing with that guy.

there is a big difference to true (marx) communism and soviet, mussolini, cuban, or any other real world example.

all the real-world examples are actually much more fasiscm than communism.”

“Yep, I agree sacco.”

“It IS more fun calling Dubya a turd!

Mutt, you're a dog. >8^)”

“then mutt, you should know that the extreme left version is true/marx communism, not the twisted fascism (in red clothing) versions out there.

so hitler, stalin, castro, ect. were all extreme RIGHT - not left at all.”

“Sacco, that's why I said their *philosophy* was leftist.

From russp.org: "Some question whether Hitler himself actually believed in socialism, but that is no more relevant than whether Stalin was a true believer. The fact is that neither could have come to power without at least posing as a socialist."”

“I'm confused >8^P~

Just look at the Soviet military hats.
They are just a whacko as the Nazi stuff.”

“here's a diagram that has a more accurate depiction of Hitler's politics:

”

“Oh sure Mutt, that clears things right up!”

“It looks like someone couldn't hit the bullseye.”

“Well, it shows that even in practice, Hitler wasn't as far right as is popularly believed.”

“the extreme left as far as u.s. politics go are not, in my opinion, coming at it from a true communistic point of view. they are coming at it from a point of view that they will use "communism" as a shield to a point of which it will get them in power.”

“the philosophy they *preached*, sure but not what they really were.

your old thread was brought up as proof of hitler being a "lefty rascist."

kinda funny. yes, i realize you can't control how other people bring up your past threads, it just interesting how they're remembered i guess.”

“That Musolini sure had a large set of balls, though.”

“Twinks, will you go to the movie with me and hold my hand during the scary parts?”

“Does it matter what label one puts on a Dictator? I think "Dictator" is a sufficient label. And "HI. I'll Kill you if you look at me wrong" is all that matters, no?

Or are we trying to blame certain Political Ideologies for creating Dictators?”

“MarkO, it sounds like the scary part is when they show Bush reading to school kids with a glassed-over look in his eyes after he's told his country under attack!”

“Twinks, you need to do a little more research on the Electoral College and it's purpose. It was not put in place just to count the votes. It is designed to prevent a few populace states from controlling the elections. It worked as it was intended and quite well.”

“i think he was in shock because the message was garbled into: They attacked the Texas Rangers.”

“He almost looks like he's thinking in that scene.”

“You can catch a preview at http://www.thememoryhole.com/911/bush-911.htm”

“When I saw that scene I at first thought "well, he's probably in shock as no one expects to ever get a message like that whispered in your ear as president by your secret service". But you know what? That's the role of a no-leader. The president is not supposed to be your normal joe-schmo. The president is the "leader of the free world". It is the president's job to react in an almost "super hero" fashion. To react quickly, with absolute composure and intelligence. It's upposed to be a hrad freakin job. That's why the whole country goes bonkers over the process of getting this person into this seat of power! And he just sits there for ~7 minutes??

F*ck that! That's messed up! He should be fired for his piss poor job performance. He's the freakin' PRESIDENT for crying out loud! He just sat there and did absolutely nothing! How the hell did this man get hired?”

“I disagree with you M.A.T.

It was created becuase at the time - communications were limited and usually out-of-date by the time it reached voters in remote locations who would undoubtedly vote for whomever was from their state or favorite state without being properly infromed with regards to the candidates true platforms.

But know that we have tv, newspapers, magazines, internet, blah, blah blah.....this system is grossly out-of-date and serves to disenchant voters because the poplur vote does not always matter. But this is a democarcy and there is no longer any excuse for the popular vote not being the actual accepted vote. "By the people, for the people".”

“Does anyone know what Mr. Moore does with his earnings,,,this film I believed cost @6 mil. to make and from all accounts it seems to be heading for the recorded books for gross sales,,,

Question,, will ,or, have any of those Americans that he has profited from by showning their sufferage be seriously compensated for their story?

like those kids from 'Bowling' that went to Kmart to protest,,, how much did they get monetary wise for their story? College Fund??? med. bills paid off??,,

just curious as to how much he gives back to those he exploits? Because I can picture Mr. Moore saying these words "How much money can one man have?"

Money is by no means a cure all for the suffering those Americans he has exploited, but to some it is everything.

Question,, if the shoe was on your foot,,you were making these mockumentaries,,, profitting beyond your wildest dreams,, would you not go back to that lady in Flint, MI. and tell her that some of her troubles were over,,, or travel back to Columbine and tell those boys that,,,you'll pick up that tab??

I know I would,,how about you?”

“twinks, You may disagree with me, but my point is supported by historical facts.”

“Twinks that is part of the equation but not the whole equation of the hows and whys of the electorial college.

If you believe in the concept of the tyranny of the majority then you should have no issue with the electorial college.

This is a good summation here in PDF from the federal election commissions website”

“Mutt - Is your diagram considered "accurate" by everyone?

twinks - I don't care for Bush at all but to suggest that any Prez would initially react differently is unfounded. Maybe, a different person would have said "bye" to everyone and go to their job. But that's speculative.”

“"Here's a few (and yes, it's borrowed because it would have taken me quite some time to compile this list solo)...."

This is a bit like starting at a conclusion and then running off to track down the proof. A cut and paste?

#24 was my favorite..."24. Like Hitler, Bush's Messianic ambition to bring about America's hegemonic dominance in the world..."

Bawhahahaha! Everyone knows the Messiah’s name ain’t George! LOL!

Or how about #26. “Like Hitler, Bush takes pleasure in the mythology of frontier justice. As a youth Hitler read and memorized the western novels of Karl May, and Bush retains into his maturity his fascination with simplistic cowboy values.”

A Texan with a twang! He MUST be evil! Kill it! Kill it before it grows!

Yeah, this is all very original Twinks. I’m sure you were sitting there watching the movie thinking hopw Bush’s Texas accent and Texas upbringing remind you of Hitler. Hawhaw! Where's The Official Scorekeeper at cause I just can't keep track of how deep Twinks has buried herself.”

“twinks, Now that you know a little more about the electoral college I hope you can let go of some of your anger. You might even want to explain to others that there is a modern purpose for the electoral college.

The election was not stolen as the movie portrays. The independent counts that followed the election all reached the same conclusion. President Bush won. These are the facts I am told that the exact opposite was presented in the movie.

I hope we can continue your education and allow you to get control of your anger.”

“But this is a democarcy

No, this is a constitutional republic. Maybe that's the cause of your angst.”

“Nick Tahou's world famous Garbage plate:

http://www.thelynches.com/Personal_Pages/Damian/Nick_Tahou_Recipe.htm

Roadfood.com gave it a big thumbs up ("Eat this quickly or all the fat will gel the ingredients together!")but I only ate there when drunk.
http://www.roadfood.com/Reviews/Writeup.aspx?ReviewID=218&RefID=218

It's in the middle of the Hood. When asked by newbies why we put tobasco sauce on EVERYTHING, the reply was: To Kill The Bacteria!

I'm pining for a garbage plate.”

“We indeed do live in a Republic and not a Democracy, and the electoral college was carefully and brilliantly planned so as to limit the dominate influence of an overwhelming populace of one geographical region at the expense of otheres. Otherwise, mob rules.”

“But I'll admit, it's hard for me to say something contrary to Twinks because she's quite beautiful and I have a suspicion, judging from her rampage, that it's 'that time of the month'. I have made a note of the date for future reference. (ducking)”

“That's a nice way of looking at it Buck but don't you think the EC was put in place b/c they didn't completely trust the masses?”

“Twinks - I have read that

A. Richard Clarke is portrayed as this guy who stood up to the administration and warned everyone about what was going on etc...

and

B. The administration is faulted for arranging for some well connected Saudi's to leave the country after 9/11.

are these things true?”

“I smell a trap....”

“I knew you would bm....”

“I have less difficulty with the seven minutes than I have with the fact that...

...Cheney thought that the U.S. military had shot down two hijacked airlines on 9/11.

...Bush had to use an unsecure cell phone because all other forms of communication had been cut off.

...the FAA was completely out of the loop during discussions on 9/11.


These are conclusions of the bipartisan 9/11 report. They also left open the possibility that one or more of the hijacked planes could have been brought down had the administration acted more quickly.

So, on second thought, maybe that 7 minutes could have saved a hundred lives at the Pentagon. Yeah, he should have stopped reading.”

“Is "B" false? I've heard it before.”

“Since everything was in complete dissaray I doubt 7 minutes would have saved the Pentagon. But lets say they could have shot it down. Where would this plane have been? Could hitting the Pentagon cause less death?”

“Hey, Bearmagnet!

We've had probably a dozen major plane crashes in the U.S. during the last couple of decades. I don't remember one that had significant ground deaths.

I'd think that we'd always choose to shoot a targeted plane down.

But the real idea here is that this administration was in disarray during the most important hours of its term in office and continues to be in disarray today.

In the past few weeks, we've seen the Pentagon evacuated in a panic because of Nebraska's governor's plane and we've gotten statistics that say that the TSA is no more effective than the private airplane screeners were.

We've had a recent incident in NYC of an unidentified plane approaching the city and administration officials had to find a copy of official protocol to see who should give the order for military action.

We have a state department that is openly hostile to the President that supposedly administers it and we have an intelligence community that is demoralized because the administration has revealed a covert operative and used the FBI/CIA as the fall guy for bad Iraq policy.

Minutes matter during these terror incidents. Effective administration can shave minutes off response time. Lives are at stake.

On August 6, I will vote for a Republican in my area's Congressional primary because he is the best candidate for the job. In November, I will vote for Kerry because he is the best candidate to bring order to this administration's chaos.”

“Small correction: The US Capital was evacuated not the Pentagon.”

“The State Department is openly hostile? Where did you get that RL?”

“BM - both things I posted are true, it's the way the are apparently covered by this "documentary" that is the problem. Like I've said I haven't seen the film so I wanted to know if both those things are in there.”

“It is no secret that the Defense Department and State Department have had wide differences of opinion on the Iraq War.

These differences are embodied by Colin Powell and Donald Rumsfeld. Powell, in fact, has a doctrine named after him, the "Powell Doctrine" that states that overwhelming force must be used during a war and clear exit strategies must be in place. This was pioneered during the Gulf War.

Rumsfeld has pioneered a new idea. It is that a smaller, quicker, less conventional force with large helpings of technology can do the same job as a Powell-doctrine style force.

These institutions have largely mirrored their leaders. The Defense Department won the battle in this administration.

The result is a marginalized state department. During the weekend, there was a report that many workers in the state department have posted pictures, cartoons and other anti-Bush materials on their office doors. I've been trying to locate the source, but it is one of three: The NY Times, the Chicago Tribune or the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.

One job of the president is to get the large cogs of government to run smoothly. That has certainly not been the case in this administration.”