Need A Little Advice

“Hey guys! My name's Ryan Dolan and I am currently signed up for a National Outdoor Leadership School semester in the Rocky Mountains for this coming fall. I was curious if you guys had any advice on NOLS, or maybe had heard anything about semester programs with them. I was also curious if you know of any cheaper alternatives to paying $10,000 for three months with them. I'm just looking to learn the basic backcountry skills of backpacking, and hopefully some form of water travel. Any other ways I could learn these skills outside of NOLS? I am discounting just going out and learning backpacking by hand, being that I've never been camping before, so I'm not sure I could do that. But any advice or recommendations on this would be extremely helpful. Thanks!”

“never been to a NOLS course myself, but have heard they are really good, pricey, but good.

This stuff ain't hard to do, find some folks going somewhere near you, get a basic gear list and head out. Keep the mileage and such within your comfort level and have fun.

After a couple of trips you'll start figuring out "which end is up" pretty easily.


Your sure don't have to spend 10,000 on a course to learn this stuff.”

“welcome to the board.
please send your $10.000 to me and I will show you which end is UP.


hehe

ok, what state are you in?”

“I live Illinois, but if needed I could drive pretty much anywhere in the continental US.”

“ohh ok then make your way up to Ithaca Ny and you will meet the best people around!

check out the trip page. there are trips almost every weekend. truth is, hands on training realy is the best thing.”

“Beleive me you're not going to learn from these freaks what you'll learn at NOLS (Not to say that what we can teach you isn't valuable). If you're really only interested in backpacking and water, why not take two seperate courses instead of a full semester?

I am a NOLS alum so feel free to ask away about it.”

“Thanks for all your responses guys! To Bison, what was your opinion of your NOLS courses, and what courses did you take? The reason I took a semester course was because they don't offer many good courses in the fall, especially considering I'm only 17. Any advice you have regarding NOLS? Thanks by the way for helping me out here =).”

“I don't know. Backpackingisn't rocket science. Grab hold of one of the books by Chris Townsend or Colin Fletcher and then start simple, not too far from the car, in good weather. If you're still not confident, then look at one of the courses.
Navigation is one thing they may be able to teach well, but if you start in an area wih well marked trails and pick it up from there, it won't be too tricky.”

“* smiles *

I agree with MapleLeaf.. shoot, save the $10K.. send me half of it and I'll teach you everything I know.

"A minute and a half later.. "

Well there you go, any questions?

* laughs *

Well let's see. I think Brian from Blue Ridge was an instructor for NOLS.. and probably how he got his new job working at some outdoor leadership school or something in the White Mts.

And I know REI stays involved with NOLS some, but I have no personal experience. Since Bison knows from experience, sounds like you should heed his advice.

My advice, for what it's worth -- We have several folks that are VERY knowledgeable here on TrailTalk that live in various parts of the country, and sounds like hooking up on some trips in the areas of interest would as fun, certainly as knowledge-based, and shoot.. certainly cheaper?

Anyway.. hope that helps! Welcome to the board, from one of TT's most notorious criminals, I remain..”

“As far as cost - Is it expensive as hell? Yes. Is it worth it? Yes.
Which area are you planning on going to? Lander?
Which section do you plan on applying for?”

“Well I'm currently accepted in Section 3 of the Rocky Mountains Fall Semester, which consists of Backpacking, Climbing, Canyon, River Travel, and WFR. The reason I'm asking around is that the full tuition is due in the next few days, and I'm taking a last second look around to make sure this is the right thing to do. What courses did you take?”

“I took the 25 and over Wind River Wilderness course which is analogous to the backpacking section of your semester. I think you need to decide how big you are into the outdoors, If you're looking for a set of skills that you will use for the rest of your life I wouldn't hesitate to go to NOLS. You're learning alot, getting college credit, and essentially taking a three month vacation for ten thousand bucks, that ain't bad. If the outdoors is something that you're just going to do a couple of times a year, or if you have better things to do with your time this fall, you might want to just learn the ropes on your own.

I already backpacked when I went to NOLS. Yet I still found that the experience I had there was invaluable. If I had things to do over again I definitely would have taken a semester off in College and done a full semester at NOLS.”

“Thanks so much for all the advice guys. I think I'll be sticking with the NOLS semester. Bison, any last minute advice on NOLS?”

“Yeah, have fun.

Oh and don't die.... NOLS - Novices Out Lost Somewhere :)”

“I don't know anything about NOLS, but I can't see paying $10,000 to learn how to backpack. I've been a woodsman most of my life, but only a backpacker for maybe 4 years. I didn't know a thing when I moved from carcamping to backpacking and I had no source of knowledge such as this board. I just jumped in. I made some mistakes, but my first trips were all very short (only a few miles in from the trailhead) so I could bail if any mistake was too big. Shoot, I still make some mistakes, but trial-and-error has worked (so far).

As one Illini to another, I'll warn you there is not a lot of backpacking opportunities here. Shawnee National Forest is a challenge, but you could probably handle the other areas even as a newbie.”

“Where in Illinois are you? I live in NW Indiana where there are not a lot of bp oppotunities. If you don't mind driving (I don't), there are plenty of places to go within 3 - 7 hours drive. There are always trips going on where you would be welcome. Why not go ahead with the NOLS, then get your feet wet a bit by going on a weekend trip or two or three here in the Midwest before you leave?

Check out Crazy Mike's club page. They are going to Nordhouse Dunes in Michigan this weekend. And he usually has a trip planned every weekend on which anyone is welcome and encouraged to join. There is no cost to join the trip. And you'll meet people who will be happy to impart their wisdom and opinion on everything bp-related.

Here's a link Indiana Backpacking and Adventure Club”

“Ruby, that sounds incredibly interesting to me. Sadly I'm leaving Monday morning for college visits, so I think this weekend is a no-go. But as for other weekends, it sounds like something I'd really like to try. Would I need to buy a backpack and all the other supplies? I don't have anything as I'm renting nearly everything from NOLS. I'm definetly interested in attending one of these though. Thanks!”

“you've never been camping before? wouldn't it be a good idea to find out if you really like this sorta thing before you sign up for an expensive, three month course?
BTW you can usually rent packs & stuff at the local outfitter.”

“Most of us got extra stuff you can borrow... but that's scary -- no equipment yet? Most people I know LOVE backpacking or HATE it.

I certainly hope you are in the former group, or three months in the Rockies is going to suck.”

“Start by doing some day hikes. For that you only need water and snacks possibly, and a smaller state or county park will do.

Go the club site and shoot off an email to Mike or Nicole asking for advice, etc. They are very helpful. They may even have gear you could borrow.

Where are you in Illinois? Are you close to one of the REIs? You can rent equipment from them, like a pack and so forth. If you go on a group trip, usually there are people willing to share their stove and water filter and whatnot. Join a trip or two to get your feet wet.

NOLS sounds very cool, but do you have to do it this semester? If you've never been outdoors much and aren't sure how much you'll like it, could you go in the spring semester instead? Or next year? That will give you time to learn the ropes a bit. Perhaps the base knowledge you accumulate on your own will make you a better student in 6 months or a year at NOLS.

Buy or check out some books. There are so many good ones. Here are some suggestions for starters: "The Backpacker's Field Manual" by Rick Curtis, "Allen & Mike's Really Cool Backpackin' Book" by Allen O'Bannon, "The Complete Walker" by Colin Fletcher. Check out the Latta link on this web site to purchase these and other good books.

Go to REI or Galyans and look around. Talk to people who work there. Check their bulletin boards for interesting posts.

Thoroughly go through this web site. Check out the "Beginner" link on the home page. Browse through the myriad of other bp sites and gear reviews on the web.

It will be overwhelming, but after you get out and do it a couple of times, you will start to get comfortable with it and with yourself. The night before my first trip I couldn't sleep. I felt like throwing up in the morning. And if someone wasn't picking me up, I probably would have baled. I love it now and can't wait to hit the trail whenever I can.”

“beatpeacecamera - I would suggest you get at least your own boots and clothing before you go, just make sure that what you have meets their guidelines. You don't want to spend all day in the equipment room when you could be doing other stuff. Do a lot of research and try to buy stuff that you're going to need after NOLS anyway also see what works out economically for you, NOLS publishes the rental and purchase price for the stuff that you'll end up getting from them, check out that list and see what items it would make more sense to buy yourself.

And don't listen to the naysayers who think that you just go to NOLS to learn to backpack, everyone on my course was already an experienced backpacker (although that's not likely to be the case on the semester course), NOLS is about a whole lot more than that.

If that's all you want to do, learn some basic backpacking and rafting skills, there are other ways to go about it.”

“Naysayers?.. hehe.. we have NAYsayers on this board??”

“Thanks again guys for all the advice, I have the next few weeks to get all this sorted out. I'll definetly be shopping for boots in the next few days, if not to be prepared then to give them some break-in time. And I may have sounded a little odd before, saying I've never gone camping. Little misnomer on my part. All last summer I took daily walks lasting from 3-6 hours. I went on several expeditions in to the forest preserve about a mile from my house. I love the outdoors a lot and now take at least weekly visits to forest preserves. But due to the lack of true wilderness and camping grounds in my area and my lack of a car up until recently, I haven't gone backpacking overnight.

And Bison, just curious here, you keep referring to how much more NOLS is than backpacking. Is there anyway you can go into more details? It's really peaked my curiosity and is exciting, but a few more details would be helpful.

By the way, I've read through the Complete Walker III and have read a few other books on the topic of extended travel. One of the reasons I signed up for NOLS is because the book is over 500 pages long and, like all the reviews said, every page has valuable information on it. It was all just really overwhelming, and I figured professional instruction to start off with was the way to go.”

“You aren't so green then.

IMHO, the best way to go is to just get out there and do an overnighter by any means possible.

And have a blast at NOLS. Sounds like a really cool semester.”

“If money is scarce, you can learn the way most of us did - getting out there and doing it, backapcking with other people and learning from them.

I think the NOLS credential will help if you want work involving the outdoors - otherwise, if I was 17 and had 10K - I'd just go backpacking (join a trip in the trip section here or elsewhere) and see how I liked it. Once I knew a little, I'd start buying some great gear that suited how I liked to hike and backpack.”

“I know mike had some training from NOLS. Keeps saying someday he'll go back and finish it but money is a little scarce. I first learned to backpack and kayak through my college. They had group trips through the rec center. Then because these trips peaked my intrest into it I took actuall semester classes on backpacking. Check out your local college...they may have something like that. My college had kayaking, backpacking, fishing and flyfishing aa courses for credits (Yup, I took em all!) Of course it helped to have a college smack in the middle of redwood forest and a stones throw away from wild rivers and ocean. :)”

“Where'd you go Free? Humboldt?”

“TROLL! hey, someone had to say it!! lol”

“just curious --what the heck is beat peace camera?

I've thought and thought, but I can't put the concept together.”

“on the nose, bison. :)”

“Lol sorry for trolling, I'm just trying to research this before I spend so much money =). Oh, and beatpeacecamera is from a Walt Whitman poem, I tried typing out "Be At Peace Camerado" but it cut it off at "BeAtPeaceCamera". So that's my name. And thanks again guys for all your help, I'm definetly going to look into this a lot before I go to NOLS.”