ADD

“Techtrek,

Everything you say I disagree with. Everything I read is that should continue with the drugs if they have true ADD.

It is when you start reaching adulthood that you need the most help in focusing. I read about a kid who did great all through her childhood and had great focus while the drug. She then went to college ang thought she out grouwn the need. Well the difference of High school and College is like following a trail with a map and following the sun land marks to get where you are going.

ADD is more then a chemical imbalance, it is a seperation of neurons connections. These connectors are farer apart then other people. The drugs help complete the circuit.”

“The stigma attached to attention deficit/hyperactivity and the drugs used to treat ADHD is probably worse than the infamy currently associated with pain relief and Oxycontin.

The problem with ADHD is that it's a plethora of disorders that are lumped together because we still don't understand the real mechanisms of what's truly going on. Are we talking inactivity, hyperactivity, attention span, focus, memory???

No person who suffers from significant deficits in these areas would say that ADHD isn't real, it's applying the correct solution to individual cases, which may in fact be multiple disorders. Initial chemical solutions for ADHD were amphetamine class drugs. Ritalin releases neurotransmitters and is a brain stimulant very similar to the amphetamines. Antidepressant drugs like Wellbutrin, Effexor, Zoloft, and Paxil, have also been found to perturb neurotransmitters in ways that may help these syndromes if only the drugs could be linked correctly to each disorder.

Are kids being medicated because their parents are lazy? Why does there seem to be a significant increase in the number of ADHD cases now, compared to the past? These are tough questions. Seek a doctor or doctors that you trust and have confidence in, the doctor-patient relationship is a two way street and you must have a feeling of confidence in the doctors that you let into your families lives.


That being said… would anyone like a colonic?”

“Great discussion here....


Mutt, I like you more each time you post. You are an "A" #1 baiter, though I wont be biting and getting all bothered. I actually need to thank you for helping me to learn not to get worked up over inconsequential stuff. Thanks man!

"Is it the christian guilt/fear complex/" Mutt, I think guilt is probably one of the most ineffective ways to teach anyone anything. It doesnt work on kids (in my experience) and doesnt work on adults. Its one step up from abuse in my opinion. I prefer giving my daughter choices, choices I can live with. It teaches her to chose effectively or not, its up to her. I cant say wether my approach would work for others, ultimately I dont care as raising others kids isnt my job, though the "my house, my rules" stuff applies to visiting kids (oddly they love coming over to play LOL).

Cant remember how it goes but....

If you ever want to know how to raise a child ask someone without kids, they have all the answers.

Nigal, thanks for the kind words. I appreciate them very much.


I have seen many kids benefit from drugs like ritalin. I have also seen many get it unnecessarily. The part that gets me is that teachers who are taught to teach , NOT recommned or diagnose emotional or medical issues. Its overstepping their boundaries big time. I will stick with doctors when it comes to medicine, thank you very much.

This stuff makes me think of all of the "disease dujour" we have. Tiredness, low self esteem, low sex drive, depression, cant sleep. We have magic pills for everything. I think its overkill and yes I know a bit about this stuff, my stepmom has a doctorate in clinical psychology. She talks about being wined and dined by the big drug companies. Its not pretty.”

“BigPoppa, I think the reason some or many ADD kids "grow out of it" is that as they go through school they develop or learn coping mechanisms that make it possible for them to function at an acceptable level without medication. Also, sometimes it is the school environment itself which is difficult for them; if they choose a career path appropriate to their natural abilities, they can get off the meds and be OK.

Note: I have not studied ADD/ADHD and anything I say should be interpreted in that context.”

“Oh yeah, I forgot...


drugs are bad, mmmkay???”

“So how does one who is not a doctor come to the conclusion that one kid who gets ritalin needs it and another who gets ritalin doesn't really need it?

What about how the kids feel? Imagine if you couldn't concentrate or your mind raced constantly and you had no control over it...to have that quieted and be able to focus would be quite a relief.”

“It is interesting thing about drug abuse and ADD. It is my impression and some doctors agree including mine that ADD people abuse recreational drugs to help them focus ( I am refering to untreated ADD people). These types use the illegal drugs to excess. When they are finally treated correctly and are on a drug that helps, they can walk away from the illegal drugs very easily, meaning that they are not actually addicted to the illigal drugs. In fact the illegal drugs are acting like a band aid that effects ADD differently then other people. So they are not in fact addicts, just abusers looking for a drug that will help them. My old Doctor, while not promoting pot use, can understand how it helps ADD people. With the many things that are swimming around in my head and grabbing my attention, pot stops the noise and lets me have some slow time and peace and quite. My current Adderall does help me focus, but it also makes me feel like I need to rush and I push myself real hard to finish what I am doing. Pot lets me sit on the couch and lets me have some quiet time. On my own, I can not do either. I hope to find a prescibed drug that will somehow find a balance.”

“I actually need to thank you for helping me to learn not to get worked up over inconsequential stuff. Thanks man!

I endeavor to help people through spontaneous negativity, so your compliment really touches my heart...”

“...your little black heart? LOL!”

“Always the race baiter, aren't you Nigal. ;-)”

“"So how does one who is not a doctor come to the conclusion that one kid who gets ritalin needs it and another who gets ritalin doesn't really need it? "
-twigeater

"The part that gets me is that teachers who are taught to teach , NOT recommned or diagnose emotional or medical issues. Its overstepping their boundaries big time. I will stick with doctors when it comes to medicine, thank you very much."
-birch

Maybe I was misleading. My wife (the preschool teacher) does NOT diagnose the condition. Only a doctor can do that legally. It IS her job to diagnose that a problem exists (slower learning rate, attitude problems, etc). She then calls a meeting of "the team" - principal, her, parent, others - who all sit down and discuss the problems. Sometimes other causes are uncovered in the team meeting, but almost always the team recommends to the parent that they have a doctor evaluate for a proper medical diagnosis. Unfortunately the doctor can't spend 3-6 hours a day, 5 days a week (teacher) or more (parent) with the child, so must rely mostly on teacher and parent observations. The parent is usually only in a position to observe their own child. The teacher is able to observe many, many children over many years. Who comes out usually right with a "diagnosis" of ADD/ADHD? The teacher. They are the only ones with all the hands-on experience.”

“techntrek, my post wasn't for you, I agree that teachers can recognize symptoms and make recommendations.

It was directed at the posters who claim they know many kids that don't need the drugs, or are on it because their parents are lazy.”

“I do it in much the same way techntrek describes. Observation, consultation and reccomendation.”

“Teachers have training...what is yours?”

“That also doesn't explain how you think you know that some kids who are on the drugs don't need it.

I was involved in boy scouts for many years, and that didn't qualify me to say I knew more about the kids than their doctors, teachers or parents.”

“I took the same training that our local teachers take as it was made available to us and the parents approached me. I work with parents not against them.

I didn't say I knew more than they did, I said I saw a lot of cases that to me seemed unnecessary or marginal. It's an opinion.

I know a lot of kids that are happier now than then and that's all that matters to me.”

“Re-reading the thread I see that I came across as arrogant.

My apologies, I didn't intend to do so.”

“Lets see...I have a VERY hyper 6 1/2 year old Male child. Is he medicated? No. Would I? No. Who he is is who he was meant to be. I am happy that my son survived a bad pregancy, came thru being born premature, with his cord around his neck twice-that he had 10 fingers and toes, he was breathing. I am eternally happy that he came thru and grew to be a healthy child. (He has hearing issues though, and suffered severly delayed speech). You take what you are given, and you make a life of it.
On the other hand, my son is one of the few Non-Obese children left in America...he runs all day, from dawn to dusk, always into something. Always creating. Wanting to know everything.
Sure his attention span could be better. He could obbsess less over trivial things. He could talk A LOT LESS.
But then he wouldn't be my little squirrel...I love my son for who he is.

Children aren't easy to raise, and that is a fact of life. Children are expected to sit so much these days, and to be more adultlike constantly. Is there any wonder our kids are bored??

Drugs are not always the answer-and should NEVER be the easiest answer.”

“My son runs my wife (and his teachers) ragged some days, but I'm not planning on medicating him. He just has a lot of spirit. Plus, he's learning how to be less of a behavior problem, and his teachers say he's learning well.

If he gets diagnosed, I may consider medicating him, but only as a last resort.

I'm torn on this because of the example of one of my brothers, who has ADD and essentially has no life because of it. I don't want my son to end up like him, but I don't want his spirit stolen from him just to make someone else's job easier.

He's everything I wanted to be when I was a boy, but was too scared to be.”

“I seriously doubt that people medicate their children because they are "spirited" or run all day long. An active child is a healthy one.
That is not what I thought ADD or ADHD is.

We keep talking about the parents here, the kids are the ones who struggle with the illness. Remember the kids who were avoided or even teased in school for being in special ed? I think it's great that today there is a name that can be put to what I'm sure was some of those kids problems and medications that can help them. I'm not saying we/they shouldn't learn to deal with it without meds, but both could be used.

I wonder if it was yourself if you'd feel differently. If you found yourself one day unable to focus or concentrate, unable to quiet your mind, frustrated by the smallest of things, and no control over it, what would you do?”

“I see your point. I'm not saying that drugs are never the answer. But personal experience with psychologists who want to drug first and diagnose later leads me to be skeptical. That said, I wish to God my brother had gotten something when he was a kid. His life is a wreck now.”

“Thinking about it...isn't that true with most illnesses - medicate, then diagnose? Or why bother to diagnose if the medication works?”

“Psychologists are the biggest racket going.”

“di·ag·nose
v. di·ag·nosed, di·ag·nos·ing, di·ag·nos·es
v. tr.
To distinguish or identify (a disease, for example) by diagnosis.
To identify (a person) as having a particular disease or condition by means of a diagnosis.
To analyze the nature or cause of: diagnose the reasons for an economic downturn.

v. intr.
To make a diagnosis.


If your doc is giving you meds before he figures out what's wrong, you need to go to another one.”

“It's common practice bit.
Women are given the pill all the time to relieve certain symptoms without diagnosis as to what is actually causing the symptoms.”

“So I should follow the same course of action for my kid, just because of that?”

“Of course not, I'm just saying that it's done all the time - not that it's right or that we should accept it.
You know what's best for your kid.”

“Thanks for recognizing that.”

“techntrek, I knew what you meant when you talked about your wifes observations. Both my parents and 6 aunts and uncles are retired or current teachers. I just have a problem with the way (at least in our district) that teachers are so quick to label segregate and classify kids. Some kids are just very high energy. I have read about children who were diagnosed ADD/ADHD and were later found to be extremely bright kids who simply werent being challenged in class. Its unfortunate but teachers at times are forced to teach to the lowest common denominator. I see no problem with mind altering chemicals being used as a last resort but at the rate "science" is going we are all gonna need psychotropics for our individual "diseases".”

“My step-son supposedly has ADD. He was getting into trouble in school, had trouble reading, could not sit still, all the common symptoms. We put him on medication for a while but me and my wife did not like the idea of drugging our kid , plus he himself said people started picking on him because he had to take a pill at lunch everyday.
Well to make a long story short, we took him off the meds, worked with him on his reading more, spent a little more time with him, kept a tight hand on him at all times, grounded him when necessary ( which was a lot) and pretty much threatened his life if he did not straighten up. This was in about the 4th grade. He is now getting ready to start his Senior year in high school, has consistantly made the A-B honor roll and his teachers all just love him.
So I think that ADD is not all everyone says it is. Some kids just need to be treated differently than others. Also I think medication is sometimes a short-cut for people raising their kids. ( I can't control him so I'll just give him a drug ). I know parents who say that their son acts so much better when he is on his medication. I know lots of people who act different when they are medicating. That's what drugs do. There may be SOME kids that really need meds, but I think parents should try all other options before they just start drugging them. Also no one really knows the long term effects that the meds could cause in the future.”

“Parents also need to look at how their child learns......some can learn by reading...while others need to be shown or learn hands on. A friend of mine who is in her 60's is raising her grandson....he has alot of problems.....very smart kid, but had some behavior problems and as he got older they got worse.....they had him medicated...he got so that he was afraid of bugs...it progressed so badly that he would not go out and play....he wouldn't ride a bike cause he was scared of falling....they tried more meds...it got worse.....she finally took him off some of the meds and made him face his fears...and he is doing so much better......I worked with eldery dementia and have seen some cases where some of the drugs make them worse than what they are originally were....like zyprexa ( I think that was it)one of my ladies was incapable of taking care of herself when I first started.....she kept saying it was the meds.....after a bit her Dr started taking her off the meds.....and when I last saw her she was taking care of herself and very alert ...I saw one other woman who went to the Dr ...he put her on some of the meds and when she came back to our facility she was so out of it...she would eat lunch at 12 and come back at 1 and say "Well, I am here for lunch"...she got progressivly worse and finally passed away a few months later......some of those meds have very bad side effects.....I would be very cautious putting a child on any medication....ok..I am rambling again....

I have trouble hearing people talking....I thought I was hard of hearing.....( My mom said I had selective hearing....) and after 3 kids it seems worse...so..we had a hearing test at work and guess what.......I have normal hearing......I think I may have ADD

:0 LOL.....hehehehh”

“Does anyone remember the thread where Lyndys detailed some of the dietary changes that helped her daughter?”

“I think it was something else... but thanks.”

“V - that's the one I recall too. Here's a C&P

Around Christmas time last year, my oldest daughter began to cry a lot, was withdrawn, claimed to hate school. After a couple of weeks I took her to a therapist that I took her to a couple of years before that when she would refuse to go to school. The therapist had several visits with her and decided that she needed antidepressents. She wanted me to take her to a child psychiatrist with the purpose of getting the drugs. I resisted. After a couple of months she said that my daughter exhibited signs of having been abused and should go to the psychiatrist. I had some bad experiences as a child and was pretty sure that I had avoided this type of thing with my own child, so I was sceptical but also desperate to find a way to make life happier for my child. The psychiatrist visited for an hour with my child and then prescribed Zoloft. I had been diagnosed with a chemical imbalance as a teen that caused depression and was astounded that the psychiatrist didn't want to do any blood tests on my kid. She told me that that was not considered mainstream.

So I researched all this stuff from when I was a teen, books written by Dr.Carl Pfeiffer and Dr. Abram Hoffer. I started giving my kid vitamins as recommended by these doctors and as was found in files that my parents kept from when I was a teen. Within a few weeks she was markedly improved. Now, a year later, she is a whole different child. She is probably going to have bad spells on occasion her whole life, just like Gojo and Violin have mentioned. But I believe it happens for biological reasons. Some people genetically are predisposed to be more affected by pollution and lack of nutrition (processed foods). Some people have undiagnosed food allergies that can cause brain poisoning or chemical imbalances.

Unfortunately, most of medical science is aimed at developing new drugs to treat illness rather than correcting the nutritional imbalances that our food culture creates. I don't feed my kids total junk food, but they are incredibly picky and difficult when it comes to food choices. A very wide variety of foods during a lifetime is supposed to decrease the chance of allergies. Like eating twelve grains throughout the week rather than just wheat. And a zillion different vegetables. And not just beef, but different birds and mammals and fish. There are very few doctors that treat mental illness through the vitamins and minerals, and allergy study. The Pfeiffer Institute in Naperville Illinois is one that still follows the original treatment protocols based on research done by Dr. Pfeiffer. Look them up on the internet, get the books written by Pfeiffer and see what you think. Pfeiffer called depression mild schitzophrenia, but don't let that put you off, it is just words. The research on niacin, vitamin B6, vitamin C and Zinc is very valid and helpful to anyone suffering from depression.”
LyndyS
3:38:59 PM
2/06/03”

“Man, good luck with that. My niece is bi-polar on top of ADD and this kid is absolutely out of control. My poor stay at home sister in law is to the point now wehere she is on stronger meds than her daughter.
last edited: 11/02/05 3:38:59 PM”

“yea, but i was too distracted to re.....hey! a shiny ball!”

“she also has another informative post on the third page of that thread that talks about food.”

“hey Violin, i have a book called Prescription for Nutritional Healing...these are some of the things it says are good for ADD:

~ Calcium, magnesium - has a calming effect
~ Coenzyme A (from Coenzyme A Technologies) - supports immune system's detoxification process
~ Coenzyme Q10 - streamlines metabolism, eases depression & fatigue, supports adrenal glands
~ Kyolic-EPA - provides essential fatty acids
~ Gamma-amino-butyric acid (GABA) - calming effect
~ grape seed extract - cellular protection
~ Vitamin B complex
~ ginko biloba
~ ginseng
~ valerian root
~ catnip, gotu kola, hops, kava kava, lemon balm, licorice, oats, passionflower, skullcap, St. John's wort, thyme, wood betony

~ there's a supplement called EFA Attention Formula that's made by Health from the Sun that contains many of the above nutrients

~ Eat fish; follow a hypoglycemic diet (as the two are often related): many small meals, each including protein and complex carbohydrates, and cut down on simple carbs

~ NO: refined sugar; carbonated beverages (because they contain phosphates); salicylates (found in almonds, apples, apricots, berries, cherries, cucumbers, currants, oranges, peaches, peppers, plums, prunes, tomatoes); wheat; milk; luncheon meat; hot dogs; margarine; chocolate; colored cheeses”

“That shiney ball is so... HEY! look at the doggy!”

“OOOOOOOOO
Bright colors!”

“Thanks a bunch lyra.”

“you're welcome a bunch! :-)”

“I don't know details, but there are a number of supposedly "natural" nutruint-type additives on the market, with your search skills I'm sure you can find a lot of info! :) I'm convinced anytime one can go "natural" vs. a man-made pharmacological agent, natural is far superior with less side-affects. Here's one.

http://www.nativeremedies.com/focus_for_adhd.shtml?ovchn=OTHER&ovcpn=GoText&ovcrn=adhd&ovtac=PPC”

“Sort of my personal experience with this…

My oldest son's teacher two years back said she thought he had ADD. I didn't know much about it and was totally floored at the parent/teacher conference. I was confused by the very term "Attention Deficit Disorder" because it implied to me that "Attention" was something clinical and quantitative that characterized ADD that you could not have enough of like blood sugar is to Diabetes or blood pressure is to Stroke. So I did a lot of reading on the subject. I elected to NOT have my son evaluated for the "disorder" (the teacher’s recommendation) but to just double-down as a parent and spend more time with him. 6-months later… 6 very had months later for both of us… he was straight-As and a few Bs. He made the "AB" honor roll (elementary school). I think most of it was a matter of self esteem. Once a kid gets it into his head that they are failing I think it takes a lot to pull them out of it and no amount of chemicals is going to make that happen.

He has since left elementary school and entered the 6th grade. He is struggling again, this time organization skills (a chip off the old block!) He is smart and very clever and not at all lazy. He has developed a very strong, trusting, and honest character (which is almost more important to me than the academics). Anyway, the new curriculum is very focused on standardized test scores and there are checks and balances in place that put a lot of pressure on kids. This is especially true for the 6th grade because it’s the first time in “real school” and I think it’s a bit of a harsh reality for many children. Anyway, our approach has been the same as the last. We are just doubling-down as parents and somehow we’ll find our way though it.

I know others have different experience with this. I just wanted to share mine. I still don't know much about the topic of ADD in general.”