Not Fit For Command

“Surprised no one started a thread on this yet.

A book about John Kerry's 4 months tour of duty in Vietnam.

Eleven members of his team have joined together, to write this book, saying how Kerry mislead his superiors, and exaggerated his "heroic" deeds.

Apparently out of 23 members of that team....1 supports Kerry, 2 have died, 4 are neutral and 11 or 13 are against Kerry.

I heard this on a talk show this morning.

Let the mud slinging start.”

“I wonder how much of this is accurate.”

“That settles it, I'm not voting for Kerry!

And because of Al's book I'm not voting for Bush!”

“Can anyone point me to a book bashing Nader?

Thanks.”

“"I heard this on a talk show this morning....."


Soooo, it must be true.

I'll sling the bullchit at ya.

"Apparently out of 23 members of that team....1 supports Kerry, 2 have died, 4 are neutral and 11 or 13 are against Kerry....."


Wel, I guess all those people that were on stage with Sen. Kerry before he was annouced, all what..... 15-18 that served with him, were all bums from Boston?

Dood, do you even double check yer info before you swing yer dick around?


Keep it up, fly boy.


Keep re-enforcing the Dems point!







How was that?”

“They were not on his 'team', they are career liars.

John McCain has called this attack "dishonest and dishonorable" and called on Bush to condemn it.

My guess: dopey won't realize the blowback potential and won't say a peek until he drops another few points in the polls.”

“Wel, I guess all those people that were on stage with Sen. Kerry before he was annouced, all what..... 15-18 that served with him, were all bums from Boston?

What we know is that they were 15-18 people who were on stage and SOMEONE told us they were from his team. Nothing more.

Right now, I'm inclined to believe the Swift Boat team that wrote the book.”

“It's up there with the story what Bush is a gibbering wreck skulking around the corridors of the West Wing....... wait a minute.

It's crap. No candidate would be stupid enough to prominetly use these guys from his team and put them on the stage if it were false. It would be too easy to prove it was a lie.”

“No kidding, Ynami.


NoProb - you'll go with anything Right, right?

Your "miss-information" is your undoing.

Sounds like you have yer tinfoil hat on to snug.”

“Why is when someone who’s served with sKerry stands for him they are heroes but if they served with sKerry and are against him they are scum?”

“I don't know the truth, yet. I'm guessing that there is a whole lot of word parsing going on. Based on a lot of different versions from a lot of different sources, I'd say that the guys that wrote the book are way more credible that anything we will hear from the Kerry/Edwards campain or the DNC or Michael Moore or Moveon.org.”

“"No candidate would be stupid enough"

How about Gary Hart challenging the press to catch him before spending the evening on "Monkey Business"

”

“I guess you believe what you want to believe.”

“"I deplore this kind of politics. I think the ad is dishonest and dishonorable. As it is, none of these individuals served on the boat (Kerry) commanded. Many of his crew have testified to his courage under fire. I think John Kerry served honorably in Vietnam."

- Sen. John McCain, Chairman of Bush's campaign in Arizona”

“"I do not believe John Kerry is fit to be Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces of the United States. This is not a political issue. It is a matter of his judgment, truthfulness, reliability, loyalty and trust -- all absolute tenets of command. His biography, 'Tour of Duty,' by Douglas Brinkley, is replete with gross exaggerations, distortions of fact, contradictions and slanderous lies. His contempt for the military and authority is evident by even a most casual review of this biography. He arrived in-country with a strong anti-Vietnam War bias and a self-serving determination to build a foundation for his political future. He was aggressive, but vain and prone to impulsive judgment, often with disregard for specific tactical assignments. He was a 'loose cannon.' In an abbreviated tour of four months and 12 days, and with his specious medals secure, Lt.(jg) Kerry bugged out and began his infamous betrayal of all United States forces in the Vietnam War. That included our soldiers, our marines, our sailors, our coast guardsmen, our airmen, and our POWs. His leadership within the so-called Vietnam Veterans Against the War and testimony before Congress in 1971 charging us with unspeakable atrocities remain an undocumented but nevertheless meticulous stain on the men and women who honorably stayed the course. Senator Kerry is not fit for command."


- Rear Admiral Roy Hoffman, USN (retired) May 4, 2004”

“"Why is when someone who’s served with sKerry stands for him they are heroes but if they served with sKerry and are against him they are scum?"
Nigal
03:55:16 PM
08/05/04

Are they just against him or are they slinging?”

“And John McCain is certainly entitled to his opinion.

If the guys that wrote the book are telling the truth, I don't see how that can be considered dishonest or dishonorable.”

““I think John Kerry served honorably in Vietnam."

Burning villages. Killing a 12 year old boy and an old man. Using 50 cals. Honorably? I love McCain but he is off on this point.”

“"Are they just against him or are they slinging?"

The difference? Are all the 520s like Moveon.org simply against Bush or are they slinging?”

“Yawn!”

“The view from the far right.

Drudge alert look away”

“Who was talking about moveon.org?”

“Why am I not surprised?”

“"Who was talking about moveon.org?"

Well, if we're going to question one group's motive is it unfair to question them all? Everyone has a side of the story to tell. Why are the Siftboat Vets so wrong for wanting to tell their's?”

“I see. Do you always dance?”

“""Why am I not surprised?....."


Because you shouldn't be. This is what happens when the right gets sKerd of progress from the left.

When in doubt, go for the war record, because ya can't argue issues.


BTW - IF Kerry is "unfit for command", and the right feels that this is a big "issue"....the American people have already shown, by "electing" Bush, that they are willing to go for a person that has a shady "war" record.

Ya can't throw mud, and not expect some to splash back on you guy.

For the right to keep on attacking, with negitive things like this, goes to show that they are already beaten this early in the campaign.

It' frickin Aug, and the Right is pulling out the crap THIS early.


You guys are in some serious trouble and it shows.”

“The Bush supporters rally around their man wen Bush attacks McCain, another decorated war vet, then they have to attack Kerry, because:

Rush said so on his program today (Yep, I listened)

and

They want to defer attendtion away from the crappy job Bush has done so far.”

“"I see. Do you always dance?"

Only with you dear.

“My but you dance divinely my da-ling!”

It’s not really dancing bear. I’m just looking for consistency here. The leftist groups like bowelmovement.org and the others have been attacking for months and it’s all good but when some starts firing back everyone throws their hands up and cries foul.”

“Also notice how the "regulars" line up on this thread to bash Kerry.


Instead of getting out there and telling people What's GOOD about Bush,

the Right has no other choice but to BASH Kerry and spread propagada.

Real telling.


Again, you goons keep proving Kerry's point.”

“yes it is and my feet hurt.

I never said it was good to sling crap.”

“Thing about slinging crap is everyone ends up smelling like sh*t.”

““I never said it was good to sling crap."

Oh I never said you did but still, don’t complain about it just because it’s not being slung at Bush this time. I’m just saying it’s only fair in light of the slinging the 520s have been doing. I like how everyone is up in arms about this book as if the RNC and Bush are the one’s putting it out. It is the Swiftboat Vets who are putting it out. sKerry has enjoyed month of sitting back and letting everyone else (the 520, Dean, Kennedy, ect.) do the slinging for him. Now someone is slinging it at sKerry and everyone acts like it’s the Bush administration doing it.

It’s the old goose and gander thing. Don’t hate me because I love a little retribution.”

“"Thing about slinging crap is everyone ends up smelling like sh*t."

Yes, but many times some truth is to be found under all that shlt. The left has been slinging it for four years now at every turn. It's payback time.”

“How about a little reality for a change?

That book was written by some of the 23 Swift Boat COs of that division.

A swift boat usually had a crew of 6. So 6 X 23 boats = 138 servicemen and that only counts the actual crew of those 23 boats and bears no mention of any non-boats based support or command staff. So expect the actual number of people that served with or around him in that divison to be higher.

Out of 138+ people I'm sure anyone could easily find 20 people who like you and 20 who don't.

There is a hell of a lot more people in a divison than either side is painting and neither sides numbers are particularly damning or are a particulary ringing endorsement.”

“McCain Condemns Anti-Kerry Ad
Republican Senator Calls Attack 'Dishonest and Dishonorable'
By RON FOURNIER, AP

WASHINGTON (Aug. 5) -- Republican Sen. John McCain, a former prisoner of war in Vietnam, called an ad criticizing John Kerry's military service ''dishonest and dishonorable'' and urged the White House on Thursday to condemn it as well.

The White House declined.

''It was the same kind of deal that was pulled on me,'' McCain said in an interview with The Associated Press, comparing the anti-Kerry ad to tactics in his bitter Republican primary fight with President Bush.

The 60-second ad features Vietnam veterans who accuse the Democratic presidential nominee of lying about his decorated Vietnam War record and betraying his fellow veterans by later opposing the conflict.

''When the chips were down, you could not count on John Kerry,'' one of the veterans, Larry Thurlow, says in the ad. Thurlow didn't serve on Kerry's swiftboat, but says he witnessed the events that led to Kerry winning a Bronze Star and the last of his three Purple Hearts. Kerry's crewmates support the candidate and call him a hero.

The ad, scheduled to air in a few markets in Ohio, West Virginia and Wisconsin, was produced by Stevens, Reed, Curcio and Potham, the same team that produced McCain's ads in 2000.

''I wish they hadn't done it,'' McCain said of his former advisers. ''I don't know if they knew all the facts.''

Asked if the White House knew about the ad or helped find financing for it, McCain said, ''I hope not, but I don't know. But I think the Bush campaign should specifically condemn the ad.''

McCain, chairman of Bush's campaign in Arizona, later said the Bush campaign has denied any involvement and added, ''I can't believe the president would pull such a cheap stunt.''

White House spokesman Scott McClellan declined to condemn the ad. He did denounce the proliferation of spending by independent groups, such as the anti-Kerry veterans organization, that are playing on both sides of the political fence.

''The president thought he got rid of this unregulated soft money when he signed the bipartisan campaign finance reform into law,'' McClellan said. A chief sponsor of that bill, which Bush initially opposed, was McCain.

In 2000, Bush's supporters sponsored a rumor campaign against McCain in the South Carolina primary, helping Bush win the primary and the nomination. McCain's supporters have never forgiven the Bush team.

McCain said that's all in the past to him, but he's speaking out against the anti-Kerry ad because ''it reopens all the old wounds of the Vietnam War, which I spent the last 35 years trying to heal.''

''I deplore this kind of politics,'' McCain said. ''I think the ad is dishonest and dishonorable. As it is, none of these individuals served on the boat (Kerry) commanded. Many of his crew have testified to his courage under fire. I think John Kerry served honorably in Vietnam. I think George Bush served honorably in the Texas Air National Guard during the Vietnam War.''




Retired Adm. Roy Hoffmann, head of the Swift Boat group, said they respected McCain's ''right to express his opinion and we hope he extends to us the same respect and courtesy, particularly since we served with John Kerry, we knew him well and Sen. McCain did not.''

McCain himself spent more than five years in a Vietnam prisoner of war camp. A bona fide war hero, McCain, like Kerry, used his war record as the foundation of his presidential campaign.

The Kerry campaign has denounced the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, saying none of the men in the ad served on the boat that Kerry commanded. Three veterans on Kerry's boat that day - Jim Rassmann, who says Kerry saved his life, Gene Thorson and Del Sandusky, the driver on Kerry's boat, said the group was lying.

They say Kerry was injured, and Rassmann called the group's account ''pure fabrication.''

The general counsel for the Kerry campaign and the Democratic National Committee sent television stations a letter asking them not to run the ad because it is ''an inflammatory, outrageous lie'' by people purporting to have served with Kerry.

Hoffmann said none of the 13 veterans in the commercial served on Kerry's boat but rather were in other swiftboats within 50 yards of Kerry's. The group claims that there was no gunfire on the day Kerry pulled Rassmann from a muddy river in the Mekong Delta and that Kerry's arm was not wounded, as he has claimed.”

“I think it would be nice if politics would step above the mud slinging crap. All it ever does is make the candidates look like a bunch of two year olds that haven't learned to play nicely. I'm sick and tired of the BS that's being spewed by both sides. Why can't they sit down and try to figure out how to deal with the current issues that face our country instead of trying to make the other guy look bad?

End of rant.”

“"McCain, chairman of Bush's campaign in Arizona, later said the Bush campaign has denied any involvement and added, ''I can't believe the president would pull such a cheap stunt.''"

This is what gets me. The Bush campaign said they had nothing to do with it and McCain still says, ''I can't believe the president would pull such a cheap stunt.' How is the Bush campaign responsible for another group's ads? That's why in their ads they say, "I'm George Bush and I support this ads content". And why should the Bush campaign condemn it? sKerry never condemns the ads against Bush.

Whiners.”

“So, Nigal, since "they" did so can "we"?”

“I have not heard a word out of Kerry's camp on this one, it's McCain whining.

Tell me again, what political party does McCain belong to?”

“Nigal, Bush could be the bigger man and step above it.”

“Getting back to the motivations for starting this thread.... maybe I should pay more attention to the candidate preferred by someone from Taiwan, Paraguay or Botswanna? LOL

Geeeeeeeee.... That sounds more like the well-worn bugaboo of ceding our sovereignty to the dreaded UN, LMAO”

“"I have not heard a word out of Kerry's camp on this one, it's McCain whining.

Tell me again, what political party does McCain belong to?"
Wounded Knee
04:54:17 PM
08/05/04


Damned if I know.

And nobody has explained why this mudslinging if it is true. Kerry spends what seemed like hours on Thursday night patting himself on the back about his heroic Vietnam service (I didn't know he served in Vietnam, did you?). I guess these guys are telling you that he lied. If so, how is that mudslinging.”

“"So, Nigal, since "they" did so can "we"?"

No, what I’m saying is, “We did it so now they are doing so we can’t complain about it.” Again, this is not Bush vs. sKerry. It’s Bush supporters vs. sKerry supporters. And when you get right down to it it’s not even Bush supporters vs. sKerry supporters as the Swiftboat Vets aren’t even supporting Bush to the best of my knowledge. They are simply against sKerry.”

“I'm getting a headache.”

“"Nigal, Bush could be the bigger man and step above it."

LOL! You’re making it sound like Bush needs to make a retraction. He’s not the one putting out the ads. His official ads aren’t even all that negative and neither are sKerry’s official ads. Go after the 520 groups, not the candidates.”

“Good point Nigal.

Buschey better do something to shut McCain up. It makes him look like he had knowledge of this ad and supported it.”

“Let him speak his mind. that's what's so great about McCain. Ya always know where he stands. I have no doubt he has much stronger aliegances to his fellow vets than he does to Bush which is understandable. He shouldn't, however, try to hang this on Bush.”

“We will see how Bush responds to it and if Kerry has anything interesting to say.”

“LOL! You’re making it sound like Bush needs to make a retraction. He’s not the one putting out the ads. His official ads aren’t even all that negative and neither are sKerry’s official ads. Go after the 520 groups, not the candidates.

By not saying anything he is basically saying it's ok. Kerry as well this the anti-Bush BS.”

“The 'sKerry' spelling is a bit childish don't you think?

.... and considering the Bush administration's long series of miscalculations and foul-ups to date, which candidate inspires less confidence truly based on past performance?

Where Are the WMD? Where are the links to al-Qiada? Who is helping to bankrupt the country? Who is giving polluters free reign?

Who is actually more 'scary'?”