Not Fit For Command

““By not saying anything he is basically saying it's ok. Kerry as well this the anti-Bush BS."

True, but is Bush’s or sKerry responsible for the veracity of anti-Bush/anti-sKerry group’s ads? That’s why they give the disclaimers now in ads. Either one could take legal action if they feel they have been slandered. What happens between the Bush campaign and the sKerry campaign is up to them. What the groups do between themselves is up to them.”

“I love the hypocrisy around here, Tell a bunch of lies about Bush and that's alright, but bring up ugly stuff about Kerry and it's AOK.”

“I can't believe there are any ads out in the media that aren't approved by HQ, DEM or GOP.”

“The leader ofther Republican party hid out in the Guard and couldn't even live up to THOSE requirements.

Is it any wonder they attack Kerry's service record? They Sure As Hell can't use Bush's record in their campaign ads! LMAO”

“"How is the Bush campaign responsible for another group's ads? ....."



Easy. When soft money was "outlawed" in 1992, it made it harder for presidental candidated to generate money.

Enter the "Polictal Action Committee", or PAC to you and me.

These guys can raise money to support a candidate, but the candidate cannot support their ads.

This is why you hear "This is ....., and I support this message".

The people running have to be real careful about this.

However, it is a nice little seperation away from the when the PAC run ads, and the candidates runs ads. That's why it is most important to make sure you read that little thing at the bottom that Nigal misses.

It's called "the endorsment".

moveon.org can say what the ever they want. they are not bound but the FEC regulations, as they are a PAC. They can support anyone they want.


One note about moveon.org.

They were incepted during the Clintion Admin to fight the Clinton Admin policies.

A little homework on yer parts would go a very long way..”

“So, the "right" now hasw nothing to say?


you guys were averaging about 2 posts per 5 minutes, now nothing? It's been over an hour.

Go ahead and claim you were in the shower or out on a hike...



Looks like the truth wins yet again.....”

“Funny, all the guys still living that were actually on the boat with Kerry were on stage with him. Looks like these other guys have a political agenda. (And as a matter of fact, I know they do. :))”

“I personaly find it down right dishonorable, unAmerican, dishearting, terrible, and just down right phucked that the "right" on this board find a way to disrespect servicemen such as Wes Clark, John Kerry and John McCain.

You guys are complete commies if I ever saw'em.

You claim that your so American, yet you tear down every single person that served that runs for office, yet turn a blind eye to the moron, I'm soory, *President*, you prop up for our #&%!$ry.

You really think Bush is the *way*?

Bullchit, and you all that support him know that.

You only take this side because it give you something to do during you worthless lives at work. Too bad your job, or your hand for that matter, isn't as stimulating....!”

“I alway's like to hear both sides of the story so I think I'll download "Unfit for Command" as my selection from Audible this month.

Somebody asked about Nader. The only books I've seen have been the ones he writes. The major parties seem to just ignore him, which is a shame because he has a lot of good ideas. The AARP had an article stating 56% of baby boomers think we need a strong 3rd party. Yet, amazingly, only a few seem to come out and support the 3rd parties we have. With #'s like that a 3rd party could really shake things up in Washington.”

“Forgot to post my picture.



He, he, heeee, heee, heeeeeeeeeee!”

“I think it would be nice if politics would step above the mud slinging crap. All it ever does is make the candidates look like a bunch of two year olds that haven't learned to play nicely. I'm sick and tired of the BS that's being spewed by both sides. Why can't they sit down and try to figure out how to deal with the current issues that face our country instead of trying to make the other guy look bad?

End of rant."
lumberzac
04:47:16 PM
08/05/04



I agree with you. Unfortunatley, in this Jerry Springer day and age where people opt for sensationilism and theatrics as opposed to turning off the TV and using their brains instead, that mud slinging gets results. What a sad state of affiars in our great country.”

“Hay, doant yewe mess wit Jerry.

(I think they should resurrect Hee Haw now that I'm thinking about it)”

“Gee, I knew this thread was going to bring everybody out of the woodworks. :o)

Lucky I don't have to vote for either of these guys. As someone said earlier....I'm starting to get a headache. :o)

I guess it's up to the U.S citizens, to decide which one tells fewer lies.”

“


And vote, "None of the Above."”

“Kerry's not fit for command if for no other reason than he wants the U.S. subservient to the UN.”

“If I can dare to get back to the original point for a moment, which is the critisism of Kerry's Vietnam service and this book that came out, I think there is one major point that underlies a lot of this sentiment against him. This is opinion and a hard thing to back up. However, I feel that those that are hurling the poop towards his service record are reacting more to the fact that he took such a prominent stand against the war when he came back, rather than the way he carried out his tour while there. It seems to get mention in a lot of what I have read concerning this and even popped up in the statement of Rear Admiral whats-his-face that Nigal incessently posts about. Given post 9/11 thinking and looking back to the time when the invasion of Iraq was getting afoot, there was the return of the old "America - Right or Wrong" line of thinking here. Hell, saying some of the things we now say on here against the administration was taboo then and generally met with some angry backlash. I just feel that the association with the anti-Vietnam movement of the 60's and 70's and images of Jane Fonda really drive a bug up some people's asses. So, where is the truth? I think HPM hit it on the head about as accurately as anyone could!”

“How about his voting record on military equipment during his tenure as a Senator.

He has voted against almost every piece of equipment currently used by the military.

You are correct in that the war with Iraq would not occur with him as President. Our Military would be using equipment from the Army/Navy store and serving under officers appointed by the UN.

BTW the UN should be corrected to be the DN - do nothing.

Biafra
Laos
Cambodia
Rwanda
Uganda
Sudan
Congo

Genocide is alive and well in the world while family members of UN dignitaries get rich.

And this is the group that the would be 'Commander in Chief' looks to, to lead us.

Nah! I dont think so.”

“Manuka, if you are going to make blanket statements about votes in the Congress, it's a good idea to be inclusive about whatever other items are tied to each and every one of those agendas. Otherwise, your post could be rendered meaningless...”

“Let's see... We have:

George Elliott: Veteran retracts criticism of Kerry



Larry Thurlow:
"I distinctly remember we were under no fire from either bank.... I also ended up in the water that day during the rescue efforts on the 3-boat (ph). And my boat, the 51-boat (ph), came up, picked me up, business as usual. I got back on board, went about the business at hand.

I received no fire... nobody was hit..."
-- CNN Transcript

From Douglas Brinkley's account: Kerry and the other wounded men received medical attention aboard a Coast Guard cutter, which was the closest ship capable of treating them. Along with a third Purple Heart for the injury to his right arm, Kerry was also awarded a Bronze Star for his bravery, as was Larry Thurlow.

Is Thurlow returning his Bronze Star?



Bush's connection:

Texan Bankrolls Anti-Kerry Vets Group

Smear Boat Veterans for Bush”

“First point. Every man that stood behind Kerry as a Vietnam vet, had his name and the state he lives in announced, loud and clear, over the PA system. If you want to know about these men, it is easy to look into the matter.
Second point. If you are interested in doing some research into the Vietnam War, I have two documentaries that I would recommend. "The Fog of War", which has Robert McNamara, former Secretary of Defense in it. "Hearts and Minds", which has Clark Clifford, former Secretary of Defense in it. Just a suggestion.”

“Vietnam is another example of wester liberal society and the tragedy it creates.”

“I've voted third party and would like to see a strong third party. I voted John Anderson in 1980. But there is no way I'll vote Nader in 2004.”

“My vote goes for Bush. He is the American leader my people have prayed for.”

“Treebeard, all posts are opinions, and meaningless to those that do not agree with that opinion.

What Kerry or Bush or Nader did 25 years ago is also, close to meaningless. What they have done in the last 5-6 years, what positions they took is far more relevant.

Their recent past actions and words give some indication as to what they will do in the immediate future.

When all information indicated that Iraq was a threat, and the UN did nothing because they had a very great financial reason to do nothing, Bush was prepared to act, Kerry will not.

Hindsight is always 20/20 and the threat was not there. But the US both Republican and Democrat thought it was. Britain, Spain, Japan, Phillipines, Korea, Australia, New Zealand, Poland, and a number of other countries also thought there was reasonable cause.

Who did not, those countries making money off the oil.

Kerrys recent work has all been as a member of a committee, not as an executive.
Sort of like comparing Clinton who was executive for Arkansas, with another Senator for life Bob Dole, or even GHB who was also a Washington committee person.

How successful was the UN in getting Saddam out of Kuwait ?
No that was the USA again, only difference was we had the blessing of the UN, probably because they were not making money off the oil until after desert storm.

I am uncomfortable with the person who's job it is to protect the Country relying on the UN to do so.

I have posted in the past that I think it is wrong for the US to lend troops to the UN. There should be separate recruitment and a different group of service people who sign up for that service.”

“Key Figure in Anti-Kerry Book Recants; Admits He Lied
By Staff and Wire Reports
Aug 6, 2004, 08:41

A key figure in a veterans' anti-Kerry campaign, Kerry's former commanding officer, admitted today he lied when he said the Democratic candidate for President did not deserve the Silver Star.

Lieutenant Commander George Elliott now says he made a ''terrible mistake" in signing an affidavit that suggests Kerry did not deserve the Silver Star -- one of the main allegations in a new book, "Unfit For Command," which questions Kerry's fitness for President.

In the book, which is being promoted on conservative web sites, Elliott is quoted as claiming Kerry ''lied about what occurred in Vietnam . . . for example, in connection with his Silver Star, I was never informed that he had simply shot a wounded, fleeing Viet Cong in the back."

Elliott's statement refers to an episode in which Kerry killed a Viet Cong soldier who had been carrying a rocket launcher, part of a chain of events that formed the basis of his Silver Star. Kerry critics who were not present at the event have questioned whether the soldier posed a danger to Kerry's crew but his crew members have said Kerry's actions saved their lives.

Elliott now says he regretted signing the affidavit and feels Kerry deserved the Silver Star.

''It was a terrible mistake probably for me to sign the affidavit with those words. I'm the one in trouble here," Elliott added.

Elliott said he was no under personal or political pressure to sign the statement, but he did feel ''time pressure" from those involved in the book. ''That's no excuse," Elliott said. ''I knew it was wrong . . . In a hurry I signed it and faxed it back. That was a mistake."

The affidavit also contradicted earlier statements by Elliott, who came to Boston during Kerry's 1996 Senate campaign to defend Kerry on similar charges, saying that Kerry acted properly and deserved the Silver Star.

"What I did (signing the statement) was wrong," Elliott said. "Terribly, terribly wrong. I'm sorry."

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_4985.shtml”

“Elliot has the guts to admit mistakes, unlike one GW who will remain nameless.”

“Manuka - how could you forget our ally, Indonesia, in your genocide list?

So, y'all beeotch about the UN doing nothing and we shouldn't be subservient to the UN, yes?

Is this a Republican platform? How come y'all don't complain about our government doing nothing to stop these atrocities? Would that imply guilt?

Don't blame the UN for doing nothing without blaming ourselves, we are just as guilty if not more.”

“""How about his voting record on military equipment during his tenure as a Senator.

He has voted against almost every piece of equipment currently used by the military......"



Care to enlighten us on what those bills had in them?

I'm sure that they had no "pork" in them, or other riders that would cause the bill to fail.

You know just as well as I do that all bills contan deals in them that get them voted down.

Also, it is a fact that 85% of ALL bills never make it past committee.

Also, remember that Bush held the troops hostage when the funding bill was about to be voted on. Your President told congress that HE would VOTE the bill if any changes were made to it. Kerry wanted an additional funds to be allocated, but Bush threatened veto.

That's why he voted they way he did.


FOR THE LAST PHUCKING TIME!”

“Don't blame the UN for doing nothing without blaming ourselves, we are just as guilty if not more.

Totally disagree with this statement Bearmagnet.

It is the UN function to unite nations for the betterment of all NOT the USA. The US is one member so why are more guilty.

More guilty, what about the countries immediately bordering the genocide? why is the US in many cases one of the furtherest in the World MORE responsible?

Is it because of arms exports ? yes there is fault there, but Africa has shown that where the US does not china and the former Soviet states are only too happy to provide SKS AK47 RPGs, silkworms and our fellow european providing exocets.”

“Fascinating that you profess to know what is in Kerry's mind as he votes.

That would imply talent.

I guess you are the modern day Cassandra with special knowledge, and you share her fate.

No one listens to you because you are unable to hold any conversation with out profanity.
You self label yourself as unintelligent with your selection of words.”

“I guess I'm confused. When we go in to a country without UN backing we say "the UN sucks and somebody had do to it".

When we don't want to go in but feel strongly something should be done we say "Were is the UN? Why isn't the UN doing anything? This is where the UN should be."

We can't have it both ways.

It seems we've justified our involvement in tiny wars while letting the biggest atrocities to go on by blaming the UN.

Seems like bull#&%!$ to me.

And we export more arms then the rest of the World combined. So yes, we are to blame.”

“We went in without UN backing because of a perceived threat to us. Not because of atrocities or genocide or any humanitarian reason, purely self defence with a strike first or they will repeat 9/11 on us mentality.

Different to going in because of a threat to others.

The UN is supposed to get all member countries together to enforce the will of the majority. Embargo's do not work if some countries still trade.

A good example of stopping genocide was India's intercession when East Pakistan won the election and West Pakistan set out to adjust the population in what is now Bangladesh.

The US exports more arms than the rest of the World combined. Then how come terrorists all over the World are using AK47's. Where in the US are they manufactured?
Perhaps in dollars, you get a lot of AK's for the cost of an F15, but I have seen so few terrorist attacks by F15's.

Do not see American made weapons in the hands of terrorists too much.

Why are you so negative toward your own country?

Misery, poverty and cruelty existed for thousand or millions (depending on creation or evolution) before 1776, and now 228 years later everything is our fault.

Oops correct that, after 4 years of GWB everything is HIS fault.”

“We went in without UN backing because of a perceived threat to us.

We had UN backing.”

“"Fascinating that you profess to know what is in Kerry's mind as he votes

You shouldn't accuse the Q-man of this. He doesn't know what was in Kerry's mind any more than you do. This statement can be turned around on you for making the accusations of Kerry's vote to begin with.”

“"He doesn't know what was in Kerry's mind any more than you do."

I never professed to know why he voted as he did. I just do not agree with his vote.

And with his vote(s) my opinion is that I would rather not have him in charge of the national defense.

The 'pork' excuse is just that, I am sure that most bills including ones Kerry (and/or every other politician) supported had their share of pork.”

“Indonesia would have stopped if we had cut them off. Apparently they were holding back the "Dominoes" in Asia so we didn't. In fact We increased weapon sales to them during Carter's regime.

Good point on the dollar value of exported equipment but I'm not talking about terrorist. I'm talking about supplying weapons to countries involved in atrocities.

"Why are you so negative toward your own country?"

Seems like a cheap shot.

Misery has existed for a long time.

Here's a cheap shot back:

You seem to care very little about other peoples suffering, let 'em get slaughtered because it's none of our business?”

“This thread gets more amazingly stupid as time goes by. It's bordering on a Monty Python sketch. (Cue Graham Chapman as the British Army commander)”

“E's just sleepin. Lovely plumage, Norwegian blue. E's pinin fer his fjords.”

“Ooops, I turned off the mantra machine.”

“How many neocons does it take to screw in a light bulb?”

“What exactly IS a neocon, anyway?”

“"Fascinating that you profess to know what is in Kerry's mind as he votes.

That would imply talent.


"I guess you are the modern day Cassandra with special knowledge, and you share her fate.

No one listens to you because you are unable to hold any conversation with out profanity.
You self label yourself as unintelligent with your selection of words......."


So then I take that as a "no" then.

If you choose to boot out, go ahead and cop out and take the easy trail.

If you make a comment, be prepared to bakc it up, just because you fail in this area, shouldn't mean that you lash out at me over it.

Deal with the facts. Back up your claim.

I asked what was in the bill, you cannot answer, and then try to bate me with an insult. I never lead on to anyone to know what or why Kerry votes the way he does on eveything. I just know how that one went down and I know the facts that I listed after. FYI - The "phucking last time" was up in there, because about every month or so, someone like you re-posts that same crap that we've already went over with and have "been there, done that" with the facts presented debunking it. Maybe you weren't here, but it's real hard to imagine a poli conversation with you putting yer three dollar bill in.

Truth be know, as you already prolly know, I could give two shakes of hiking pole what you think of me. You above comment shows your lack of information,l as you cannot answer the question. For the record, I am not the only one that uses foul languge on this board to make a point, right fly boy?”

“The book is called "Unfit For Command" and I hope everyone reads it. The bits I've read so far appear to be so desperate as to drive people the other way!”

“What's the difference between the U.N. and a condom?

Nothing. Over dominant males with low self esteem seem to despise both with an equal amount of contempt. Hey, just strap up alright. I'm tired of the U.S. pulling it's own pole here.”

“The book is called "Unfit For Command" and I hope everyone reads it. The bits I've read so far appear to be so desperate as to drive people the other way!"
Phaedrus
04:33:26 PM
08/06/04

How can I read the book when I refuse to put any money in thier coffers? Are libraries carrying this yet? If so, is it in fiction or non-fiction?”

“I had a contract ratifaction meeting on Thursday. Unfortunately, our folks had to take healthcare cuts due to increases of 26%, 23% and 24% over the past three years. I explained this to membership (about 200 people). After the meeting, one woman approached me and was angry that I pointed out that the above was due to republican policies. She said, and I quote: "I'm voting for the guy who looks better in cowboy boots, and that's Bush. I don't care what the 'union' says, Kerry don't look as good in cowboy boots!"

It's a good thing that education is such a high priority in our country.”

“Some people look good with a boot up their ___, also. That sure doesn't mean that a person should vote for them.”

“Something has to change.
Undeniable dilemma.
Boredom's not a burden anyone should bear.
Constant over stimulation numbs me
But I would not want you any other way.
Just not enough.
I need more.
Nothing seems to satisfy.
I said, I don't want it.
I just need it.
To breathe, to feel, to know I'm alive.”