Ramsay Cascades

“Ronnie Holbert knows the Smokies REALLY well... and I get a lot of his TRs sent to me.

It shows me what I havew to look forward to.. on OUR Ramsey Cascade hike this coming weekend.”

“I got the map you sent me. Question for you, and anyone else who might know. Tell me again.. what this means, please??

"Map is gridded for UTM using NAD 27 datum. Adjust GPS as necessary."

I will get out my GPS book, but in case it is not in there. Tell me what all that means again, Marc? Please?

Now changing the subject. Ivan is coming. Dang it, the projected path put the remnants in the GSMNP on Friday afternoon. heh.. knowing how hurricanes tend to slow down as they hit land, it will prolly be POURING down rain Saturday morning. (Won't this hike be fun??)

1) "Nathan and I got stung once, luckily we were not allergic to bees."

At least the yellow jackets won't be flying if it is pouring down rain.

2) "You could see Myrtle Point."

I hope we get to. That would be awesome to see the mountain from that vantage point.

3) "placed by our friend Randy from Florida."

Hey SwampTromp. Do you know Randy?

4) "slid on hands and knees until his toes got a grip and he did a backwards flip into a small pool of water, landing on his hands and knees. If only I had my camera out."

Not me. I hope we don't get any of those visuals on our trip.

5) "too thick to walk on land so we were in the creek most of the time."

heh.. fun fun. Especially if it rains while we are there. (Drown drown)

6) "a level ridge, it was more inviting than the 45 degree angle we were climbing now."

I can't wait. If I can just get fat butt up to that ridge!

;)”

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Great. So if we all die trying to hike while Ivan the Terrible is in the park, they can sue me too?”

“TD - our office motto, "If you're gonna be stupid, you'd better be tough."”

“Dayhiker: http://www.tennesseetrails.org/pdf/release.pdf">Liability Release Form”

“I can only plan for so much. 'Sides.. might be fun hiking in a hurricane. heh.. ;)”

“Hiking/camping in a hurricane?
Been there, dont that.

No its not fun but it makes a hell of a story after you dry out and get clean drawers on.

I would advise against creek hopping in torrential rain. The Smokies are well known to have walls of water blast down those drainages after really heavy rains.

Have an alternate route and be prepared to use it if conditions warrant.

Have fun and be safe. We want to see everyone in one piece in the "after hike" group photos.”

“No its not fun but it makes a hell of a story after you dry out and get clean drawers on.


Dangit HPM, I just spewed soda after reading that line! At my parents house no less!”

“The "coffin-shaped boulder" .. that once was in the middle of drinkwater pool.. (Broome/Wise)surely is washed down the mountain... based upon this account (Holbert) and another account I just was advised of.

Not that it matters, except to reduce confusion.

;)”

“The coffin shaped boulder.. should be available for view on some website.

I will make sure I take the same frameset.

The large boulder that sits up near the fir thicket.. just coincidence.”

“in other words when i put that grid (or the small blocks) I used the NAD 27 Datum not WGS 84 or NAD 83. Map originally made using NAD 27. GPS should allow you to set NAD 27 Datum on it by going to your settings page and adjusting. Set NAD 27 and UTM as preferences and then GPS display will match what you see on map. The only other tool you would need if you arent to good at eyeballing would be a protractor or scale to measure within the grid squares....but if you check the borders you will notice that each square is divided into 100 meter increments makin them a total of 1000 X 1000 meters at a scale of 1:24,000. UTM measures in meters. Much easier to use as results would be within a meter using the full coordinate. As a footnote and as not to get into a debate here with others is, this is my opinion and the way I learned (army) and have been doing it this way for over 30 years. To each his own.....lol”

“Thank you Marc!!

I will go try out my GPS and see if it lets me put all that in.
60-70% chance of rain right now.. gonna be weird if we have to climb up that hole in the rain.”

“I live in central Florida and got hit by the last two hurricanes. Now it looks like I can't dodge this one either. Grrrrrrrr!

If the Ivan comes as predicted and dumps a lot of rain, rock-hopping Ramsay Prong is of course totally out of the question. I made it up to the cascades immediately after Hurricane Opal in in 96 and the creek was just roaring and dragging along tree trunks. The spray from the falls jetted out over the boulders where people normally eat lunch.

We probably will not have to call off the trip though. I know all sorts of other places to go in the Greenbrier that wouldn't require dangerous fords. The Cat Stairs is an unbelievable hike and there's an excellent campsite. That area is second growth so the woods are open and easier to walk through.

Backpacking in the rain is all right as long as you have a huge tarp to set up at the end of the day and kindling to get a big fire going. There is a large picnic shelter along Porter's Creek Rd, 0.5 miles past the turn off for Ramsay Prong or 0.5 miles before you reach the Porters Creek Trailhead. Let's plan on meeting there rather than Ramsay Falls parking lot. That way we can sort out stuff, consult maps, etc. beforehand.

By the way, I think I have met this guy Randy. I was walking down from the AT to the cascades eight years ago and met a man coming the other way putting up surveyor tape and clipping branches as he went. I think he said he was from Tampa. Only time I ever met someone off-trail hiking. Ronnie did not see any tape near the end because he followed the opposite fork.”

“I'm not going to cancel, Brian. I am going no matter what. I really dont care. If it is raining too much!!.. then I might walk out to Ramseys.. look.. rest.. and maybe do the catstairs or something.

Or if I definitely feel like seeing TriCorner.. I can go another route. No matter what, I will be there.. I will meet you at the large picnic shelter along Porter's Creek Rd, 0.5 miles past the turn off for Ramsay Prong or 0.5 miles before you reach the Porters Creek Trailhead no later than 7am.”

“

"Climbing on the boulders around Ramsay Cascades is not recommended. Even the strongest athlete couldn't survive a fall into the pounding froth."

So is that how you get up there?.. or do you wade thru the Rho..?

Several accounts say the view on TOP of the falls is awesome!”

“

Although there are no jails in the GSMNP, Rangers surely frown, at least that's what they are supposed to do, when they encounter a skinny hiney protruding from the forest or stream. You will be cited and have to appear in court, and that particularly defeats the whole idea of skinny dippin'.

Perhaps we can ease the pain of this skinny dippin' desire. Ironically, the place to skinny dip is up Buck Fork! Buck Fork is an upper prong of the Pigeon River in the Greenbriar area of the GSMNP. The mouth of Buck Fork is located at the turn around at the Ramsey Trail head, before ascending Greenbriar Pinnacle. Guessing, it would take the average hiker about an hour to get to the mouth of Buck Fork from the Ramsey parking area, and then after crossing both streams, and rock hopping for another hour, you can take off those rags and feel the freedom of the great Wilderness. There is one particular area of the river with a few deep holes called "Perfect Pool" by locals.”

“I posted my cell phone in my email. I drive a red ranger pickup.

If it is POURING I will meet you at the picnic shelter.

If it is nice, I will meet you at the trailhead.”

“There used to be a sign warning that four people had fallen to their deaths climbing on the falls. You have to go around them. There is an obvious but difficult way up the right side and an easy, somewhat hidden way up the left. I remember seeing LeConte from up there.

You would have to be a nut to enjoy swimming in Buck Fork. I tried it once and it took me over half an hour to stop shivering. That photo is probably a sunny spot along Middle Prong.”

“”

“That's kinda what I figured.. just bushwhack out a little bit, and it is longer but a lot safer.”

“welcome brother, have a good trip”

“Towndawg, you ought to postpone this trip. The weathermen down here in Florida are saying the Smokies are going to be hit hard. They also forecast the storm stalling over the mountains for torrential flooding and winds.”

“Well, I have to cancel anyway because I have no babysitter for the kids. At least that's what it looks like right now. I can take them backpacking, but not on a trip like that.

That means I am either stuck at home or I go climbing with the kids, but I have the feeling they will cancel the climbing clinic too. (It's in TN)

anyway, if I find a way I'll meet you guys all there.”

“John and Curt and I all talked ont he phone today. We all decided we are going anyway.. and if we have to settle for a walk out to the Ramseys.. with a sidetrail doing the catstairs.. hey.. That works too.

But no, right now I have no plans to cancel it, and told them both.”

“John, Curt, and Seneca (I'm thinking he is gunslinger) are all confirmed as well as our two Florida guys.. Sorry things don't look promising Gemini.

Hopefully we won't be trying to go UP a watershed.. about the time the water is trying to come DOWN.

;)”

“I'm the only Florida guy. Seneca , the "mad mud man", is some sucker from Knoxville who keeps letting himself get talked into these things. Glad you guys still want to go. We'll just put off a final decision on the route till Saturday morning. If it's going to be like Opal was in 96 we'll have to call the whole thing off, but if it's just flooding, the Cat Stairs will work.

Remember, when considering how to pack for the rain, that ponchos are worthless for bushwacking, you need a sturdy rainsuit. Pack covers will just get pulled off, put all of your stuff in garbage bags and line your sleeping bag stuff-sack with two garbage bags. Bring any big tarps or cord you have. We'll sort out what we'll take there.”

“Have fun, be safe and remember the toughest most miserable experiences make the best stories afterwards.
lol.”

“TD: Wow.. the scenery is nice ehh?

Stix: Ya, except its like we are sitting in the bottom of a canyon or something.

TD: Ya, the rhododendron is really thick, too. I'd hate to have to bushwhack through all that. Glad we got this stream bed we can rock hop.

Stix: Hey, TD what's that sound?

** WHOOSH **

”

“Hello again. Most of my friends think we are crazy for doing this trip.. but hey.. I think I've been crazy for several years now.

;)

Anyway.. one new development.. Looks like I will be leaving for Knoxville immediately after work on Friday.. so instead of getting to Ramsey at sunrise on Saturday, I should be into Knoxville and on into the park most like 10pm or 11.

Not that anyone might care, but if the rest of you know what your Friday plans are.. I should be available for reconnaisance sometime after 10pm. Keep me advised.

;)”

“Man, yall need to cancel this. The storm is supposed to stall on top of the Smokies. I sure don't want to see your name in the paper on Sunday.”

“Nope.. hehe.. ain't cancelling.”

“TD apparently has some death wish, and is on a suicidal mission from God.

Wow, what some people will do to have their 15 minutes of fame.”

“Hurricane Ivan Advisory

The remnants of Hurricane Ivan are forcast to bring heavy rain and high winds to the park beginning Thursday, September 16 through Monday, September 20. Current forecasts call for the possibility of very heavy rain (8-12 inches) in higher elevations and the potential for high winds.

Depending of the track of the storm, serious flooding may occur in the park and surrounding communities. Temporary closures of park facilities, including the backcountry, may be necessary to ensure public safety. This forecast is subject to change. Please monitor weather forecasts closely.

Facility openings/closings may change throughout the day. For updated road and weather information please call (865) 436-1200. Once you hear a voice, dial extension 631 for road information or extension 630 for a weather forecast.

Backcountry Travelers (Backpackers) Safety Advisory
If you are beginning a backpacking trip prior to the storm's arrival, please be advised that you are traveling at your own risk. Rangers may not be able to assist you if you become stranded or injured as a result of the storm.

Serious flooding may occur in the park. Do not attempt to cross swollen creeks. Stay put and wait for the water level to drop. High winds and water-logged soils may result in downed trees. Depending on the impact of the storm, park managers may close the backcountry of the park, or the entire park, if conditions warrant. Please check with the nearest Ranger Station for current status.


Roads
Road openings/closings may change throughout the day. For updated road and weather information please call (865) 436-1200. Once you hear a voice, dial extension 631 for road information or extension 630 for a weather forecast. You may wish to write this number down when traveling to the area for handy reference for road and weather updates.”

“Should we get someone to call the park and "warn" the rangers about your trip?

lol.”

“Saturday
Mostly cloudy. Showers likely then a chance of showers in the afternoon. Breezy. Highs in the upper 60s and 70s. North winds 10 to 20 mph. Chance of rain 50 percent.

Saturday Night
Mostly cloudy with a chance of showers. Lows in the mid 50s to lower 60s. North winds 10 to 15 mph. Chance of rain 30 percent.

Sunday
Mostly cloudy with a chance of showers. Highs in the 70s to lower 80s. Chance of rain 30 percent.

Sunday Night
Mostly cloudy with a chance of showers. Lows in the mid 50s to lower 60s. Chance of rain 30 percent.

Monday
Mostly cloudy with a chance of showers. Highs in the upper 60s and 70s. Chance of rain 30 percent.”

“Greenbrier Road is closed right now at the ranger station (one mile in). I think our best option is to meet there, then an easy 4 mile walk up the road to the start of Cat Stairs "trail", then a couple hours to the foot of the Cat Stairs where there is a good, high and dry area to camp without any serious fords along the way.

In the very unlikely event that the creeks are low enough to hike along, it would be 5 miles to Ramsay trailhead, then 4 miles to the Cascades. The best we could do if the road is still closed is get past the steep bit above the cascades, camp, and finish the way to the AT Sunday

I don't understand what the local forecasts mean, but NOAA is still predicting Ivan will hang around and drop 2-3 days of rain in the southern Appalachians. They aren't putting up any storm track predictions after Thursday, but you can see the rainfall predictions here:

http://www.hpc.ncep.noaa.gov/qpf/qpf_12hr.shtml”

“I still can't believe your dumb ass is doing this.

Stay safe.

Do you think they'll give you the special permit for this trip with the storm afoot?”

“dayhiker: We are going to the Smokies. That's not really anything 'dumbass' is that.. ;)

The report I heard this morning.. is that by SAT morning.. all the rain will have moved away, and it should be clear and cool for the next three days. (NO rain.)

gEeeZz... first I'm a knucklehead, and not a dumbass. Seriously John, I'm not going to attempt something we can't do. Surely you know me well enough to know that.

All I am saying is, I won't make my decision sitting here in West Tennessee. I'll make it at the trailhead. If we can't do the hike, we will do something else.

There are over 900 miles of trails, and several miles of roads. I'm willing to drive to Knoxville to find out if there are 20 or 30 of them I can go see.

;)”

“SwampTromp: what about that FIR thicket. Is it flat enough? It would be a GREAT campsite, if there is room in between the fir trees.

(Also, read my post above this one.)”

“You know I meant that in the most affectionate way possible.

I'm mainly thicking about all the mudslides and floodng they had a year or two ago when Foothills pakrway was taken out.

I meant those two terms to be taken like I had a smile on my face and was playfully punching you on the shoulder.

Heck, you might get up there and have the place to yourself.”

“swollen streams, mud slides... I'm kinda think'n that you will not be walking as far as you have planned. Be careful.”

“DH: Well, I thought so.. coming from you. This has all the potential to be a CNN disaster for a few stupid hikers, who ignored the ranger's warning. So trust me, I appreciate your concern. You have my word -- Think, think, and think some more. I have no plans to be a statistic, and am quite happy with driving to the park and sitting under a picnic shelter in the cades, if that's all the weather will allow me.

BUT... if.. :).. yes.. I think it would be an exciting adventure, if we get up there, and the rain has cleared off, and the streams are not RUSHING torrents of water, just begging me to be stupid enough to attempt a crossing.”

“the goat: The original plan is to trace the Ramsey watershed up the mountain, sleep at Tricorner, and then trace the Buck Fork watershed down the mountain.

If we can get UP there, I'm not afraid. The scariest part of the trip.. to ME.. if the FIRST crossing RIGHT at Ramsey Cascade. The old fisherman's trail goes up the LEFT of the falls, and the trail approaches from the RIGHT of the falls.

We stay to the left of the river almost all the way up.. leaning toward the Greenbrier Pinnacle.”

“SwampTromp's alternative idea is to bag the trip, and settle for the catstairs instead. You can't get to the AT (Although I don't see why not really), but we could ascend to the flats of the Greenbrier Pinnacle (left of Ramsey Cascades and up.)”

“All gear is in Truck. Will be leaving from Nashville about 4pm. Set to arrive in Knoxville about 9 or 10. (Need to make a couple stops.. film, batteries, etc.)

Will attempt some cell phone calls once I get to Knoxville, so see where everyone is hanging out. (Curt, I'm assuming if you are not FLOODED in without power, that you will drive over on Sat morning.)

Current weather looks a lot better, but as you know the mountains got quite a bit of rain last night, and will continue to get some today. Supposedly by Saturday sometime.. weather could be clear and cool (50's -- might be 40's at 6000'?)..

I got my capilenes, food.. equipment. I forgot rope... maybe one more thing while I am at Walmart. Smokygirl says to come party at her place. (LOL).. Anyways.. just an update. Last I talked to John, he was getting pounded, and might have trouble getting off Monday. (He's considering exiting at Cosby.) I told him I'd help him shuttle a car over there if he wanted to do that.

That's all I can think of for now. (x) is my cell, and it's a red ranger truck.. Tennessee tags of course.) I will try to leave notes at ranger station or picnic shelter if I visit those. Still hoping to be able to drive all the way to trailhead. If you bail, please try to pass along an email before noon, or a phone call tonight. Thanks!.. See you guys soon.”

“Trailhead is 2600', top is 6200'.. lots of climbing, but we got all day to get there, if we can pull this trip off.

If not, there are lots of alternatives.”

“

Let's go hiking, ehh?

”