Freedom of Speech in the Bush era

“Oryx - Your calling your "experiences" an overgeneralization yet a "rule"?

You are extremly biased

Maybe there would be less emotional pain if the lifestyle was accepted?”

“Oryx, you say you don't want to overgeneralize. Yet, at the same time, your whole post IS an overgeneralization.”

“Oryx,

From your bio., you seem to live on or near a college campus. Gays in that environment are likely to be young and experimental, just like heterosexuals at that age.

I used to share an apartment with a gay man and several other people. He was the most domestic, family-oriented man I've ever met.

I have another friend named John who just married his partner, also John, in California. They are happily married and completely monogomous.

So, I would just ask you to see the forest from the trees. And an officially sanctioned "marriage" or "civil union" would help to support those gays and lesbians trying to live in committed relationships.

It's the moral thing to do.”

“Do you know gay men sometimes cuddle? Its not just about boning, you know?”

“All the drug dealers I have ever known were straight.

Therefore/ergo/sum heterosexuality leads to drug dealing and abuse”

“Lurker,

I went through an agnostic period in high school, then read a lot of other religious texts, especially Eastern, like the Upanshads, and found God again, but a more universal nonChristian God. Then I married an Episcopalian. They're kind of like Catholic-lite - half the sins of regular Catholicism. They even have a gay bishop! Plus the church I go to in Galveston was built in the 1840s and is beautiful. Those 4-5 Sundays a year I go are pretty nice.”

“Ok, Bear! You're busted. Step back and put all your drugs in this hat. They will be disposed of properly!”

“"Most are very promiscuous, and most seem to have real problems with jealousy, lieing, and resentment in their relationships, and most seem to have substance abuse problems"

gee, sounds like your typical straight or gay person to me”

“Limpy - ROTFLMAO”

“Thanks for the response, reefmonkey. Just trying to get a few more friends on the ship.”

“No way Tree! If anyone's going to do the dispensing it will be me!”

“I think the Catholic church only has a few issues they need to change their stance on.
1. Let priests marry.
2. Let women become priests.
3. Encourage condom use.
4. Get more involved in promoting peaceful resolutions in the Middle East and elsewhere.

I think 1 and 2 would do away with the sex abuse problem. I'd love to see the church embrace gays, but I think that's too much to ask. I did think they were on the right track when they did away with Hell.”

““Ok, Bear! You're busted. Step back and put all your drugs in this hat. They will be disposed of properly!”

LOL! I thought it was funny how there's this big intellectual discussion and BearMag standing in the middle hurling things in any direction yet he goes unnoticed.”

“That's because they know I'm right, as usual.”

“Oryx - Your calling your "experiences" an overgeneralization yet a "rule"?

I guess "rule" was a poor word choice. The rule of my observations. Does that make more sense?

From your bio., you seem to live on or near a college campus. Gays in that environment are likely to be young and experimental, just like heterosexuals at that age

I'm referring to my LEO past in a large city when I refer to my observations.”

“LEO? Low Earth Orbit? Are you a satellite, Oryx?”

“Lets try an experiment

Has anyone really spent time around beer drinkers? I have. Most are very promiscuous, and most seem to have real problems with jealousy, lieing, and resentment in their relationships, and most seem to have substance abuse problems. I don't want to overgeneralize here, as I know there are definite exceptions to the rule, but still, there seems to be something about beer drinking that opens the door to other immoral behavior and emotional pain. I think that's why a lot of people consider beer drinking to be immoral, sort of like a "gateway" drug.

Hmm, yeah I can see that

Has anyone really spent time around politicians? I have. Most are very promiscuous, and most seem to have real problems with jealousy, lieing, and resentment in their relationships, and most seem to have substance abuse problems. I don't want to overgeneralize here, as I know there are definite exceptions to the rule, but still, there seems to be something about politics that opens the door to other immoral behavior and emotional pain. I think that's why a lot of people consider politicians to be immoral, sort of like a "gateway" drug.

Huh, now we're getting warmer.

Has anyone really spent time around Nigal? I have. Most are very promiscuous, and most seem to have real problems with jealousy, lieing, and resentment in their relationships, and most seem to have substance abuse problems. I don't want to overgeneralize here, as I know there are definite exceptions to the rule, but still, there seems to be something about Nigal that opens the door to other immoral behavior and emotional pain. I think that's why a lot of people consider Nigal to be immoral, sort of like a "gateway" drug.

Bingo!”

“Why do I feel all dirty and stuff?

LOL!”

“lol hpm”

“I really like the part about emotional pain.”

“I thought LEO was Lowest Entry Orifice...”

“I don't need beer to be promiscuous! it just helps some nights.”

“its nice to see this conversation is sponsored by catholic dental discounts”

“I'm not sure I want anyone putting me under anesthetic in a Catholic church.”

“Did all of you Bush supporters realize you were voting to take your porn away?

Buyer's remorse kicking in yet?





WASHINGTON -- Attorney General Alberto Gonzales said Monday he would move aggressively to prosecute obscenity cases, and he laid out a broader agenda much like that of his predecessor, John Ashcroft.

In his first lengthy address since becoming attorney general in early February, Gonzales said people who distribute obscene materials do not enjoy constitutional guarantees of free speech.

"I am committed to prosecuting these crimes aggressively," he said to a Washington meeting of the California-based Hoover Institution.

The Justice Department is appealing the dismissal of an obscenity case in Pittsburgh in which a federal judge said prosecutors went too far in trying to block the sale of pornographic movies over the Internet and through the mail. The case initially was prosecuted under Ashcroft.

<snip>”

“vioLin - In context, the laws are already there. It's just that Bush (admin) has decided to enforce them. No, I don't have "buyer's remorse" because Bush is enforcing laws. I believe that the enforcement of existing laws is more effective than the (excessive) creation of new ones.”

“Selling porn is illegal?”

“The Justice Department will be the First against the Wall!”

“Ahhh, how cool.

We're turning back the immorality that has been eroding the very foundation upon which this Great Nation was built. Cudos.”

“gojo's got a point about morality and lack there of. Think about how great this country was during Prohibition. How morale we were.

And Porn is The Gateway to drugs, prostitution, and most other crime. Statistically, none of that existed before porn.

I think we need an amendment to the constitution Prohibiting Porn.”

“treebird - Yes.”

“Sarge, what kind of porn is illegal? Seems to be lots of porn stores around for it to be illegal.”

“Did all of you Bush supporters realize you were voting to take your porn away? - Vileman

LOL, All the #&%!$ing is coming from the liberals.”

“Ewker -

You're right. Clinton did nothing to enforce the laws. Here is a definition of illegal porn from the Supreme Court:

The term of legal significance is "obscenity", which, after struggling for
many years and through many cases, the U.S. Supreme Court defined in Miller v. California in 1973. It is a three-part test, as follows:

"The basic guidelines for the trier of fact must be:

(a) whether "the average person, applying contemporary community standards" would find that the work, taken as a whole, appeals to
the prurient interest, Kois v. Wisconsin, supra, at 230, quoting Roth v. United States, supra, at 489;

(b) whether the work depicts or describes, in a patently offensive way, sexual conduct specifically defined by the applicable state law; and

(c) whether the work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value."

---

You would need to read more in context to get the full defintion. Maybe J.Mitch or another lawyer could chime in.
last edited: 3/01/05 12:15:10 PM”

“In legal terms, there is a difference between pornogrphy and obscene sex

See link:
http://www.slais.ubc.ca/courses/libr500/fall1999/www_presentations/c_hogg/print.htm

Excerpt:

This definition is necessarily broad and covers most dictionary definitions of the term and how it is understood in general use. It is also clear from this definition that not all pornography is illegal, as is clearly demonstrated by looking at the magazine rack of many Canadian corner stores, or associated with power and violence. It may also be seen to include material defined as erotic or materials defined as erotica, although there is no agreement on whether it does or not. However, some material that falls under this definition is illegal and needs to be distinguished from the more general definition used above.

It's out of context, but the link has the full version. I would think we would need to know a little more about what Ashcroft started here and what Gonzalez feels is so important about the case before we can jump to any conclusions, don't ya think?”

“I think this was an internet case, wasn't it? At least, that's the area I was researching...”

“Ashcrofft & Gonzales are obviously not getting any.

I'll reserve their place on The Wall!
last edited: 3/01/05 12:25:43 PM”

“As I understand the case, treebeard, the videos were not illegal, sending them through the mail or over an internet connection that crosses state lines is.

I know most Bush voters spend most of their time surfing porn on the net. Aren't they upset about this?”

“The case is against a California company that distributes porn through the mail and internet. The little bit of reading I did on it doesn't really explain anything they are peddling that a million other distributors are doing. It could be that there are some specifics left out of the reporting OR you could be dealing with an overzealous John Ashcroft initiative to make an example out of this one company in an effort to stamp out this disease and save America herself! (yay!)

But, that couldn't be something John Ashcroft would now, could it? (turn sarcasm font off)”

“I guess in that case, it would technically be illegal, V! Is it accomplishing anything by pursuing this with such vigor? That's another question...”

“Can someone define "sodomy"?”

“Who? The guy who thinks Liberty is obscene?

”

“Sodomy is defined as a sexual act that is "out of the ordinary", loosely put...

It's actually a "crime against nature". This, of course leaves a lot of gray area.

Oral sex can be consideed sodomy, bear!



so, watch out
last edited: 3/01/05 12:47:32 PM”

“I SEE A NEKKID BREAST!

Makes me what to go out an molest children! Where's my Zima?”

“Bear, did you visit Neverland as a child?





Or, As an adult?
last edited: 3/01/05 12:49:43 PM”

“LOL!

That's my point, tree. I mean about "sodomy". So what is "obscene"? Trying to legislate "morality is Bull#&%!$ and never works.

I'm glad the government is spending a lot of resources on busting a company that sent porn across the nation to these unsuspecting citizens. The heinous nature of this crime should not go unpunished.

Shall we put "War on Porn" on the list now? I don't think it's too long yet”

“It appears to be a top priority of our newly minted Atty General!”

“I know most Bush voters spend most of their time surfing porn on the net. Aren't they upset about this?”
Vileman
12:38:08 PM
3/01/05

The Vileman must think he's a Master Baiter. LOL
Sounds like Vile's worried about his own supply being cut off.”

“So, Stovie. You have anything of substance to add here?”

“So, Stovie. You have anything of substance to add here?”
Treebeard
12:55:49 PM
3/01/05

Does the Vileman? LOL”