Back to the gym

“That's why my Core Secrets videos are so great! Using free weights while on the ball. All those stabilizer muscles in action. Woo Hoo.
Going to do a video tonight.”

“while I am working I am listening to celebrity weightloss or whatever it is called on VH1.

damn, I need that trainer. He's kickn' their asses! I would be a lean mean machine in a couple of month.

it's impossible to do weights if you have on one that helps you lift the last rep. (working out in the morning at home)
last edited: 1/19/05 1:22:57 PM”

“I have read (and personally believe) that free weights are the best option with one caveat...GOOD FORM a machine will keep you from wrecking yourself because you can only sit or operate a machine from a very limited position. With free weights (as Lee said) you use the muscles in cooperation and opposition, the way they were made to work. Plus you use the smaller muscles that connected major muscle group and your build better balance and work the ever important core.

I dont do any weights anymore now. Just pull ups,pushups,dips and abs. I figure I am my own home gym.”

“as an aside always add weight slowly. Muscle grows way fast but ligaments and tendons dont. You can force the joint to become load bearing and really hurt yourself. I did this and at 32 have degenerative arthritis in my right shoulder, the doc said it looks like mice were nibbling the bone.”

“I do about 12-19 miles at least 3 days a week.eliptical(.75-1.25) tread 3-6 and recubet bike 8-14. not at once but 2-4 miles followed by weights and core training.
i very on weights and routeens.but always do some dagree of core training. and useuly at the end of my workout. a yaer ago i couldent do the bike or eliptical for more than a miniut or two before my left knee either lost feeling or failed to suport me. and i also have improved feeling strength and use in my left arm. that has had lost feeling and responce,enought to count over the years. overall i am in much better shape that last year. now i can focus on other areas that could use some improvment. while keeping up the workon the areas that are improved.”

“The Royal Canadian Air Force 5BX Exercises are all one needs. It was very popular in the sixties and inexpensive in a paper back book. One can start at a level that is comfortable and then gradually work their way upward. Except for running or walking, the exercises can be done at home. It appears that all the important pages of the book are available at this link.
last edited: 1/19/05 9:59:19 PM”

“I finally started going back to the gym this week. So far I have made it everyday. I knew I hadn't been in a while but I didn't realize it had been 4 months.
I know I am sore but I will work it out eventually.
I am going to try to get back to the routine I was doing before I got divorced. I went everday then unless I was on a bping trip.”

“machines:
pros-
works each muscle group in it's range of movement,
continuous tension via the cable. think of a biceps curl, with a freeweight bar when you get to the top of the movement there is hardly any resistance, whereas with a cable there will be just as much tension as you started with,
accomodating resistance-those oblong pullies are meant to change resistance throughout the movement as your leverage changes. think about the curl again, you can generate more power at the top than at the bottom, those oval pullies add more resistance at this point than at the bottom.

cons:
cheating, with a machine your dominant side will do most of the work,
only works major muscle groups, stabilizer muscles are not used on machines, which will create a false sense of fitness for sports, leading to tears or pulls of these stabilizer muscles that are seldom used,
unnatural range of motion, everyone's body is different, one machine can not have the correct range of motion for every person

freeweights
pros:
natural range of motion
stabilizer muscles are worked
no cheating with dumbells, less with a barbell than a machine, though you still cheat a little with the bar
many more exercise variations, if you continually use the same movements on machines your body will adapt and you will plateau much sooner. keep your muscles guessing!!,
more muscle involvement, a squat with a barbell is going to incorporate virtually every muscle in the body while a leg press machine focuses primarily on quads with some hamstring involvement.

con:
more dangerous than machines, you run a risk of dropping weight on yourself

i feel freeweights should be the core of a resistance program, but i would never say don't touch the machines. machines are good because of the constant tension and i like to finish off a muscle with a machine. at the end of a workout when you're tired is when you run the highest risk of injury, using a machine at this time makes things a little safer.

things to remember: if you can push 200 pounds on the machine bench press that doesn't mean you can do it with freeweights. remember how the machines don't work the stabilzer muscles. if you go from only using to machines to freeweights you have to strengthen those stabilizers.”

“I'm out the door!”

“I did one of my Core Secrets dvd's last night that I haven't done before. New moves and I am sore! Owey!

Probably running tonight and definitely running tomorrow!”

“"Back in the early 80's" I was a trophy winning bodybuilder in the Metro New York Area. Actually, I have 4 trophies. When I was a personal trainer I would always start people out on the machines (Nautilus was the safest then) and if they really wanted to build size, freeweights. The main issue is to avoid injury with freeweights, and that you accomplish by learning technique and proper form. I had a membership at the Gold's gym up until 2 years ago and they have come a long way in design of wieght training equipment. I like the Hammer machines,and cybex was cool too and the new eliptical trainers are just my favorite
indoor aerobic thing. Just experiment a bit with a trainer or experienced buddy. The payoff for me training right is that 20 years later, I am not torn up from risky lifting routines. Most people who start later in life have to be initially cautious with form and weight. I follow the same philosophy when I teach yoga as well. Much easier to mess yourself up when your over 35, or 40 and getting into a serious work out schedule. That's my opinion.”

“rocksee - How 'bout posting a few pictures from those great years? Would love to see them, maybe on Phil's Photo Page.”

“The photos I have are all prints and have to be scanned to share. Alas, It was in the dark times before digital. It is worth consideration,and I don't own a scanner at the present. I can proove it though!”

“Many photo stores will scan them for you and store them on a floppy or a CD for a small fee. Then you would have a back-up, you could post them and you could e-mail them to any relatives or friends. You could even use one of them as your start-up page.”

“Thanks, nowslimmer.”

“question for all you gym buffs.

One day you work one set of muscles the next day another set of muscles. Question is do you take a day off after that. You could run or do something else that day.

I have heard pros and cons about that so you don't tire out your muscles or possibly hurt yourself.

also anyone ever use the ab roller with any success. The old gym I went to had one and quite a few people liked it vs. using ab machines. I know I have a bad habit on staining my neck when I get tired of doing a bunch of crunches.”

“I used to use an ab roller and had 6pack abs,I also did crunches etc and had 6pack abs, the trick is doing abs for abnout 10 mi 4-5 days a week. I now have a 12pack.

When I used to lift often I did the below workout

Day 1- Chest and triceps
Day 2- Back and biceps
Day 3- Legs and shoulders
Day 4- Chest and triceps
Day 5- Back and biceps
Day 6- Legs and shoulder (day 6 was optional)

The next week I'd begin with the next workout in line. I also ran and did abs too. I was in great shape (age 20-26). Prolly excessive really. I had muscle mass that was useless, it looked good but served no purpose. That is why I quit lifting for years.

BTW I didnt just jump into the 6 day routine. I had 2 years of consistent training in already. I also had lots of great training friends (some were trainers, others just knowlegdable).”

“The thing is you shouldn't work the same muscle group 2 days in a row. Your muscle needs time to recoup after. So you can work your schedule accordingly however you want. So you could do lower body, then upper body the next and do lower the 3rd day if you wanted.”

“I have a whole damn case around my middle...”

“It's time to recycle that case, eh Bit?”

“Yah, workin' on it.”

“Birch has posted an excellent workout schedule. To add to that I will sometimes go a week without lifting any weights to let my muscles, joints, ligaments and tendons to rest and recover. The rest is great for your body.”

“I don't do free weights. I use the machines 99% of the time except when I do curls or kick backs.”

“That's about like saying that when I was doing construction labor I should have taken every third day off. I used about every muscle I had and often to excess. I felt great.

Or maybe I should rest every third day instead of continuing on the trail. Maybe Crash Bang could fill us in on this idea.

And going one step further, perhaps I should limit diets to two days on and then one or two days off.

I think you people are talking nonsense!”

“hiking is not an anaerobic activity, so it's comletely different.

but with weights, you should definately give your entire body a day off every 5-6 days.

the reason is that you need to rest your central nervous system.”

“also, nowslimmer, your construction labor is not the same thing either.

you are comparing apples and oranges.

there are other factors as well as to how long a rest you should have and how often.

a lot depends on your personal muscular adaptablility which is mainly effected by your fast twitch/ slow twitch ratio.

basically, if you grow muscle and get stronger quickly, then you probably have a higher amount of fast twitch muscle. you also have a low adaptability. in other words your body does not adapt quickly, therefore is easily "shocked", and your CNS tells it to start making growth hormone (GH) quickly.
this type of person needs more frequent and longer rest periods.


if you have more of a "swimmers" body, then you have more slow twitch fibers and high adaptability - meaning your body (muscles)easily adjusts to the stress of the workouts, and do not grow as fast. this type of person generally needs less rest.


one last important factor is the type of excersizes you do.
eccentric movements vs. concentric movements (push vs. pull)
eccentric movements break down much more muscle fibers and require longer and more frequent rest periods.
last edited: 1/25/05 6:29:24 PM”

“I always (wether with lifting or running) take 7 days off every 3-4 months (unless I am training for a big race) and always feel stronger afterwords.”

“Like I said, in construction labor (and in a labor gang in the steel mills) I used just about every muscle. I lifted, pushed, pulled and carried plenty of weight during most of the day and sometimes on into overtime 5-6 days per week. I think the problem is that most people do not get the same results with 1-2 hours devoted to a workout per day. I threw in backpacking, because backpacking in the mountains all day plus the chores setting up camp, taking it down, cooking, clean-up, getting water, firewood, breaking wood, etc. gives one more of an extreme workout each day and results in excellent conditioning. I don't know much about the effects of running distances, but it definitely gives great resuts.

So, in conclusion, I'm saying that one to two hour workouts is child's play in comparison to the activities I've described. My argument is that instead of resting, more exercise should be done.

I'm probably wrong, but I wanted to throw out my viewpoint. I had the feeling that some of you were whining and that upset me.

Best wishes.

I'm calmer now, after resting from a swim this evening and aikijutsu yesterday eventing. Right now I have to get to my CW Forum, but I'll be back.”

“NS, I had a friend who was told by his Doctor that he needed to start walking everyday. My friend told the Dr that he did walk all day at work. The Dr said that isn't the same thing and for him to start walking. He did and it helped.

BTW I wasn't whining about working out so many days in a row. I had heard that it isn't good to go everyday to workout and that you need to give your body (muscles) a rest. That is why I was asking. You hear Pros and Cons to that.”

“I used to be in the gym 5 days a week, and did Birches exact rutine. With 1/2 hour cardio after every workout. Now I use Power Blocks at home 5 days a week with two rest days, but I try to do abs every day. Power Blocks are ok, but I never get a good back workout. I really miss the pullies at the gym, and I know I worked out much harder and longer at the gym.”

“nowslimmer, you're comparing apples to oranges.

45 minutes work outs that are anaerobic (lifting weights) are physiologically completely different from what you are talking about.

so no, there is absolutely no "childs play" as you say, or "whining" going on here.

and to take it a step a further, you should not work out anaerobically for more than 1 hour at a time!

anaerobic workouts that go longer than an hour start to do more harm than good to your body.”

“BackSlacker, you bring up another point. Should you do cardio before or after you work out on weights/machines. Again I have heard different views on that.

I do 30 minutes on the elliptical before I work out.”

“See, I tried that, but it didn't work for me. I didn't feel as strong, I felt much better doing the treadmill after a hard workout. It felt like the "home stretch" so to speak.
last edited: 1/25/05 9:15:16 PM”

“OK, you people are doing a good job with your defense. "child's Play" was only used as a term in a comparison. I was not calling the workouts that. And I expressed "my feelings" with any accusations. Would like to stay, but history calls.
last edited: 1/25/05 9:28:00 PM”

“nowslimmer, you're posts are as belligerent as you are ignorant.

do some research. at least try to get a little more education on the matter before trying to not only have a discussion, but offer advice.”

“That's a good observation, sacco. And you're right.”

“Ewker, I prefer cardio first. I've done both but seem to struggle more with the run if I lift first.”

“Ewk,
I warm up 5 minutes on the treadmill before my weight workouts. In order to really build leg strength the running should follow the lifting. It will be a little more uncomfortable but also cleanses the muscles of lactic acid. That's what we did when I was a sprinter. Of course now I do a more aerobic run. Don't forget the warm up though :-)

Race you for 100 meters! In high school I was the fastest suburban girl in the state. Is that politically correct enough?”

“Birch -


how large a component of your 12 pack is diet rather than ab work.


That is . . .well toned abs under an inch or two of fat, aren't going to look like much. (or were you being facetious about the 12 pack . . .does a human have 12 ab muscles??? i think some wild dogs and pigs have 12 teats ..but that's different).”

“Let me hasten to add, that I was not suggesting you were fat . ..having virtually no idea what you look like!



What I was drivng at was a NUTRITION question.


How many folks, especially those training for the endurance events: cylcing, running etc birch and dhutch . .


How many eat a special diet. My trainer has spent the first two sessions just hammering on diet.


I have a pretty good one, which he readily admits, but wants me to fine tune it.

For instance. More regular snacks. More balance of protein and carbs.


that is, rather than just a cereal and banana for breakfast, add a protien of some sort (egg, soy, yougurt)

Rather than just a clif bar for a pre-work out snack (which does have a small portion of protien) add some yogurt.

Same with lunch and mid-afternoon snack.


It goes without saying that he emphasizes whole foods and grain, organics, eliminating bad fats, adding good fats etc etc.


he also has talked to me about acidosis.


Anyone hear of this?

You body is naturally alkaline. You should eat a balance of foods that keeps it alkalline.

It hleps, among aother things, the body process oxygen better.

Anyone??”

“Lee - I'd love to hear more about your trainer's fuel suggestions!

I eat just about whatever I want. That being said I believe in a balance of protein, good carbs (various colored veggies) and fat. Zonelike but I'm not that good. Unfortunately I have a raging sweet tooth and could be better about that. Why can't they just MAKE M&M's a food group? It is one of my goals this year to refine my diet.

I believe that when you are stressing muscles on a daily basis food and sleep can be almost as important as the workout. Over and over I've read about recovery theories and that growth hormone. My body speaks, I listen. After a tough workout I'm huuungry. After a really tough workout, I need a nap. It's not my imagination. (man I need a nap now)”

“Lee - In doing a little research the first things I encountered were discussions about the relationships between food, diet and muscle developement. So your comments are interesting.

sacco - Thank you for your comments and for prompting me to do a little investigating. I am definitely ignorant about many things. There is much in this world that I can still learn as well as things to experience and places to see. Tracking down "Anaerobic" was a little difficult, since most sites end up combining it with "aerobic."

Definition: Anaerobic :-
Energy metabolism which does not require oxygen. Many athletes participate in anaerobic training such as sprints, fartlek or hill repeats to increase their lactic acid threshold and, therefore, improve performance. Most people can only remain in the anaerobic zone for 1 to 2 minutes. Following an anaerobic interval with active recovery will help remove lactic acid from the muscles, which causes fatigue and soreness.

Anaerobic exercises are great for body building and for targeting specific muscles and/or groups of muscles. I recommend it and I do some of it. However, Anerobic exercises are a subset of work! At least as shown in this Tree. I noted there that anaerobic exercise is defined as: "exercise that builds muscles through tension." Well, this does happen with hard labor as well as in weight lifting!

Here are some examples of hard work that I have experienced:

• using a rope and single pulley to repeatedly haul materials, tools and equipment to others 50 to 100 feet above me.
  
• Swinging a sledge hammer repeatedly for days to break some hard structures, pausing only when I could no longer hold the sledgehammer throughout the swing.
  
• Lift and move heavily loaded wheelbarrow loads until my arms could no longer do it.
  
• Shovel sand all day.
  
• Dig a deep hole to bury a "dead man." (An anchor for a support cable to a high structure.)
  
• Lift and move truckloads of roofing sometimes in batches weighing as much as 245 pounds. Likewise, with railroad car loads of doors and doorbucks(door frames) and other materials.
  
• etc.

These activities all envolve some anaerobic exercises.

In backpacking we have the lifting of the backpack. There is the breaking of wood between two trees to reduce the lengths to fit in the firering. Carrying a pack all day subjects the legs to a form of inverted leg presses. Etc.

Anaerobic exercises do not have to be limited to weight lifting in a gymnasium. BTW, apples and oranges, I believe, are both in the catagory of fruit.

I do respect your concern with my remarks, many of which can be considered as belligerent. I have my own set of problems and attitudes, none of which you need.

Best wishes and pleasant exercising.
last edited: 1/26/05 1:08:35 PM”

“nowslimmer. The difference is building muscle bulk, which most of us here are doing. It\'s not \"just lifting.\" It\'s more complicated, involving doing reps and sets at weights that really challenge the muscle. When doing this type of muscle building the muscle requires a day of rest to rebuild and \"grow.\" You are describing daily, albeit active, activities, not muscle building. Not to say you won\'t build muscle doing those activities.
Do you see the difference?”

“we are trying to:

Overload: If you want to get stronger, you need to use more resistance than your muscles are used to. This is important because the more you do, the more your body is capable of doing, so you should increase your workload to avoid adaptation. In plain language, this means you should be lifting enough weight that you can ONLY complete the desired number of reps. You should be able to finish your last rep with difficulty but also with good form.

Here's what they have to say on rest and recovery:

Rest and Recovery. Rest days are just as important as workout days. It is during these rest periods that your muscles grow and change, so make sure you're not working the same muscle groups 2 days in a row.

full article”

“Thank you, pixie. I read the article at your link. Previously, I read several other articles that say about the same thing. I'm convinced. There is merit to it. It is hard for me to adjust to it, since I am primarily concerned with overall condition. To me the gym is a substitute for doing hard labor. I was not trying to knock what people do with their weight lifting. I thought more was better. I have been corrected. Thanks for your help.

Previously, I understood, or thought I did, two ways of using weights. First was repetition with less weight to build endurance. Second was to work toward lifting more, using more and more weight with fewer repetitions. This would be the approach to competitive weight lifting. Now we are talking about building bulk. Great! I am learning. (Ha, I excel with the resting part!)”

“Lee, my 12 pack is real, though maybe an 8 or nine pack now LOL. I do abs fairly regularly these days. I tend to put extra weight on my middle ( a common spot evolotionarily for easy access to calories during times of famine) simply because I like to eat...more then I should. I generally eat quite well, lots of whole grains (brown rice, whole wheat bread) 8 or so servings of fruit and veggies a day lean chicken or beef or turkey and venison if I have it, eggs minus yolks. No butter or sour cream only olive oil. I have two dietary issues...1) too much of a good thing 2) not enough protein at regular intervals (though I have been very careful with that lately). When I am in training as I am now I watch my diet very much and will tweak it based on needs and type of workouts. I generally eat a 60% carb 20% protein 20% fat diet now its moe like 70% carb 20% protein 10% fat.

I always eat within 1 hour of working out (your body absorbs and utilizes food way faster at this point plus glycogen is replaced at a dramatically faster rate). I try to eat a ratio of 4 parts carb to one part protein (i have read that this is the optimal ratio for recovery).

I monitor my heart rate and caloric burn for all my runs and rides to alter my eating habits accordingly.

I am hoping to lose about 8-10 lbs not more though. I still want a semi-pudghy midrif simply for the extra calories it'll provide me on longer events. I will be slower from the weight (10 lbs adds 2min 11 sec to a 5k race) but from an endurance standpoint I will not stress my muscles as much since they wont be cannabalized for fuel (a fit athelete stores about 2000 cal in glycogen and after that you get energy from food or your muscle or fat).”

“Well I'm no expert by far and only know that little I know about lifting weight from what I had to do for football. But... this is what we were taught to do at Va Tech football camp:

One set of 12 at a comfy weight
One set of 10 with a little more
One set of 8 with a little more
One set of 6 with enough weight where 6 is the limit of my capability

And finally...."The Finisher":
A last set of 12 on the same muscle group, but using a different exercise (for example a free weight technique if I've been on the machine or vice-versa).

We lifted on Monday and Tuesday and Thursday and Fridays with Wednesday and the weekend to concentrate on stretching and resting. The key to bulking up and gaining more muscle mass we were told was the last set of 6 which we did that we could barely lift.”

“DDX, that is what the Bob Phillips Body For Life recommends for lifting as well. Only difference is that last 12.. He has folks returning to the original 12, then moving to a new machine or move for the same muscle group for an additional 12. So he just added an extra set is all.”

“Bada -bing!

"I have two dietary issues...1) too much of a good thing 2) not enough protein at regular intervals"


That EXACTLY sums up the issue that my guy sees in my food log.

That, and an occaisonal "bad" choice .. .eg potato chips instead of fruit or yogurt. . . an extra one or two glasses of wine. Big carb meals (doubling up on pasta and bread)without a protien balancer.

His bent isn't a weight loss one (although I am about 6 lbs heavier than I was this summer) .. . .his bent is much more:

1) ratio of fuel (protien to carbs)

2) consistency/frequency. That is, your metabolism should expect its going to be fed every few hours.

The snacks he has liked have been:

Yogurt and a handful of of nuts

or Yogurt and 1/2 a clif bar

the breakfast he likes is

Eggs, ham, whole wheat toast

Dinners are an ongoing project.



Today's exercise was warm up and legs.

warm up was three medicine ball moves. That are hard to describe in written form: Chops, twists and angle chops.

The legs were box steps, balance reaches, and triple hamstring:

1. flat on back, toes up on stability ball. Hold a foam block between knees. Raise and lower hips.

2. Heels on stability ball. Roll the ball in and out.

3. heels on stability ball, raise and lower hips.”

“did a 23 mile ride today (upright bike level 7) rode for 59:30 ave heart rate 147bpm calories burned (based on age,weight,height and duration) 834.

lee, consistency is the key with proper nutrition. I have yet to prefect that, though I doubt I ever will. I just love to eat. I am getting better. I try to think of what the food is doing for me and then thinking taste.”