The Debate 9/30

“Dang! Now that's a nice deer! I've only gotten one but he was a big wide spreading 8 pointer.”

“TCB: Anyway.. interesting stuff.. I had never heard of crawling to hunt deer before, but apparently a lot of other people have.”

“TD, do you use a tree stand like most of the hunters in Tenn.”

“ewker: Ya, I've spooked deer before, but never used it as my hunting tactic. I prefer scouting and finding where I want to be, and making sure I get there early enough to see the fruit of my labor.”

“I still haven't gotten a deer yet. Maybe this year.”

“* laughs *

We get talking about deer hunting, and we will have to move this thread to fuego.. .. No wait.. it is already on fuego..

hehe.. seriously tho.. ya.. stand hunting for me.. A carry a pee bottle, and some lunch.. and do my level best to wait them out -- knowing that if my scouting was good.. they WILL come through there, sooner or later.”

“How bout you eddie.. do yas stalk hunt?”

“TD, I responded to your email. Did you get it?”

“I haven't hunted in yrs. Just started back hunting for beaver lately”

“Ewker: LMAO!.. (beaver hunting)

Yeah, thanks for the advice.. I'm really struglling with this, and respected your opinion to ask. I may have a solution.. but still working through all of it. (email)”

“22 days until deer season!”

“LOL! Don't ya usually trap beaver? Or is it, beaver traps us? "Oh Eddie, I'm 'late'!"”

“This presidential debate thread should be relabled as the "Tax and Deer Hunting" thread.”

“Ewker: I did a quick search on google to see what I could find on the sport of beaver hunting.. (LOL).. but could not find any link I was brave enough to click on while at work.

Maybe it's a sign, that I better get back to it. You guys be good, and if I don't see you, have a good weekend!”

“There's a first, a political thread degenerating into something outdoor related. lol”

“never mind”

“Nigal my trap won't make the beaver late”

“"Nigal my trap won't make the beaver late"

I'll just call ya "conabear crotch" from now on.

”

“Bison, your search results weren't cached, I had to re-search. Lots of stuff there, what part proves your point?

I'm outta here in 5 minutes for home, so I'll catch your reply on Monday.

----------------------

Can't wait for the next debate. I'm sure Bush's staffers didn't agree to a back-and-forth debate because they knew he would be trashed. He can't hold his own when he is speaking by himself!”

“One things for sure, I'd rather have Kerry raise deer than taxes.”

“B --

Look. No one here is disputing that income tax brackets were both
LOWERED and COMPRESSED. OKAY?

YOU WIN!



Everyone here gets that. I have said as much eleventyhundred times.





BUT THAT ISN'T WHERE THE BIG TAX CUT WAS YOU MORON!!!!

On a relative basis the compression and lower rates at the low end of the scale were MEANINGLESS.

That is the "Shiny object" that bush dangled in front of you.


My clients, in the old example had gross income of over $300,000 in 2002 and over $290,000 in 2003. This put them in the 35% bracet in 2002 and the 33% bracket in 2003.

But their savings DID NOT come from the 2% differential YOU MORON.

Their savings came because they had $91,000 in dividend income and $72,000 in capital gains that were taxed at 15%.


let's do that again.

They had 91,000 that would have been taxed at 33% ($30,030) that was taxed at 15% ($13,650) a savings of $16,380 or 54.5% over the old rate.


Their tax cut didn't come from the piddling trinket that the wage earners got, their tax cut came from chaing the treatment of dividends as ordinary income, taxed at he highest applicable marginal rate to treating it at a 15% rate.


It is apples and oranges Newton. Wealthier people got more benefit from these tax cuts because they have teh dividends and capital gains to take advantage of the new treatment.


Yes. YOU did benefit. YES. Your rates on ordinary income were lowered and compressed more than a wage earned of $200,000. BUT THAT IS NOT THE MEAT OF THE ISSUE. MORON>


Here are the tax tables:


These are the FACTS on taxes. From CCH 2003 and 2004 Master tax guide. I have both volumes on my shelf. The following is absolutely indisputable. Period.

Paragraph 13 Sch. Y-1 Married filing jointly

2002
0- $12,000 10%
12,000-46,700 15%
46,700 –112,850 27%
112,850 –171,950 30%
171,307,050 –307,050 35%
307,050 + 38.6



2003

para 13 Sch Y-1 Married Filing Jointly

0-14,000 10%
14,000 -56,800 15
56,800 – 114,650 25
114,650 -174,700 28
174,700 –311,950 33
311,950 + 35”

“Kerry can make all the claims to what he would do, because he has no idea how to make things happen since he is not in the President's seat. He does not know if he can really impliment his ideas. He is just bull#&%!$ting everyone.”

“Bison --

I will give you this. You are very aptly named.

Big, slow stupid and willing to stampede off a cliff if a texas cattleman waves a flag at you.”

“He is just bull#&%!$ting everyone."
lipstick hiker
02:36:00 PM
10/01/04

like Bush has been”

“Can we please get back to Ewker and his beaver? Stay on topic people! :)

Personally I think the outcome of the debate could be nothing other than it was. the expectations were just too high. the left was saying Bush would fall on his face and the right was looking for a knockout punch and neither happened.”

“"He is just bull#&%!$ting everyone."
lipstick hiker
02:36:00 PM


This is the best defense for the prez that's hit this thread yet! Any other fact based critisisms? Man, you guys are digging!!!”

“I am not in favor of seeing Ewker's beaver.


Why does Ewker have a beaver? was Ewker in a N'ewkler' accident?


Did his wally get sawed off?


I would like to see newgirl's beaver.


And when I run for president that is going to be my platform.


vote for lee and see newgirls beaver.”

“When you don't have the money to cover them, tax cuts just become another spending program.

There is no difference between raising the deficit to buy more health care or raising the deficit to give people money.

Bush has big billboards around here that say "It's your money." In fact, it's not. People aren't getting their own money back. They are just getting some investor's money recirculated to them in a big ponzi scheme.

Bush supports $450 billion dollar deficits.”

“But I am hoping that Bush is able to pull himself off the mat and make a race of it.”

“Lee, thanks for posting the tables. No where do I see a person getting a 25% tax cut.

I did get a 2% tax cut but when you break it down to paycheck, then down to a day it amounts to nothing to speak off.

The beaver Nigal is talking about is the beaver I hunt now that I am single.”

“Ewker and treebleeding, I won't debate you on Bush bull#&%!$ting people too. It's in their job description, lol :)”

“Kerry can make all the claims to what he would do, because he has no idea how to make things happen since he is not in the President's seat. He does not know if he can really impliment his ideas. He is just bull#&%!$ting everyone."
lipstick hiker
02:36:00 PM
10/01/04


lipstick hiker, the problem is Bush is in the Presidential Seat and still doesn't know how to make it happen.

I am not for Kerry either. I personally don't think either one will do a good job.”

“Lee you pathetic moron, what your clients got in relief on their dividends has absolutely nothing to do with what relief I got on wages, If my income had been in dividends I would have gotten the exact same relief. If their full income had been in wages they would have gotten less relief. Please save your insults for when you learn to do math.”

“Well nobody cares but I thought the debate was pretty even.

The candidates made it very clear that Kerry wants world approval where Bush looks at the job to protect Americans with world approval secondary.

Kerry had a much better closing speech, but forgot to ask people to vote for him.
Sometimes if you want the job you do have to ask. Bush did ask for the viewers vote.

The much touted public polls where the majority of undecided voters thought Kerry won the debate. He did not win their vote, also noted in the polls. They stayed undecided.

The anti Bush faction laugh at Bush's speech, but how about Kerry's "Potluggia" instead of "Falugia" LOL .

No big win for either candidate as far as voting goes.”

“Follow the bouncing ball Bison


You are RIGHT again!!!!! We ahve a winner folks!!

You are right! If you had my client's dividend income, you would have gotten their tax cuts!!!!!

YOU ARE RIGHT!!!!!!


and you would also be RICH!!!!!!


BECAUSE THE RICH FOLKS GOT THE BIGGEST DAMN TAX CUTS!!!!!!!!”

“I shoudl really let this go. It is apparent to everyone on this thread that you are a fool.


I am only dragging myself down by continuing to humiliate you.



Picking on the challenged doesn't reflect well on the one doing the baiting.


So.


I bid you adieu. Again. you are right. watch the shiny object . .enjoyyor new dvd player, or cell phone or jet ski or whatever toy yor bought through Mr bush's largess.

My client's will enjoy a $30,000 cruise with have of their proceeds (and pay part of my fees with the other half!).”

“I'm glad you've finally gotten the point Lee, Now you're only missing one piece... c'mon Lee you can do it... If your clients income was from wages who would have gotten greater relief? I know you can do the math...”

“I wouldn't expect this single debate to have the effect you are talking about. If Bush continues to play defense and gets beat on all three, then watch out. This is the kind of thing that has more potential as a cumulative effect. What Kerry won last night that people who paid attention saw, was a little more than just campaign mudslinging. Whether you agree with his approach or not, he at least presented something of an idea as to how he would appraoch the issues on the job. This is one thing that he has received critisism (from me included) about: presenting a stand on how he would tackle issues. He also presented himself as more personable than he has through the campaign, another item that has been hurled his way. I think he accomplished quite a bit, but I souldn't ecxpect his #'s to change just yet.”

“Two things come to mind as I read through this:

1) Pat Godwin's song, "Good Beaver Gone Bad"

2) "The Mr. Obvious Show" from Bob and Tom.”

“"I shoudl really let this go. It is apparent to everyone on this thread that you are a fool.


I am only dragging myself down by continuing to humiliate you.



Picking on the challenged doesn't reflect well on the one doing the baiting.


So.


I bid you adieu. Again. you are right. watch the shiny object . .enjoyyor new dvd player, or cell phone or jet ski or whatever toy yor bought through Mr bush's largess.

My client's will enjoy a $30,000 cruise with have of their proceeds (and pay part of my fees with the other half!)."

lee
03:20:10 PM
10/01/04

Okay, apparently you still don't get it. Let me fill you in on something just in case you come back, Just because you are stupid, and a bunch of really stupid people agree with you, doesn't make you right.”

“Heytowndawg, thanks for educating me on the art of crawling, maybe kerry's people did some research on hunting and he just added the tummy part...aaa sure. If you did that in northern wisconsin you'd be soaked and cold, during deer season there is either snow on the ground or aleast alot of dew.

Anyway my point Kerry is a BSer.”

“Trying desparately to stop this fire fight, and get back to task..

Bison: uMm.. didn't I hear that last night in the debate?? Decisive and wrong?”

“TCB: He prolly is, TCB. (Like Bush isn't?)..

;)”

“Ewker, I'm not sure if anyone is totally happy with whoever they choose all the time. There can be better candidates that won't step forward to get in the race, and I don't blame them, because being president is a thankless job, and there is just too much going on in the U.S. and around the world to keep a grip on everything. It's a hard job, and it's as simple as that.”

“TCB: What'ya say we go play some golf, and forget all this.

”

“TD
I agree Bush can bs with the best but at least he doesn't make it so obvious.
I'm at the point of picking the lesser of two evils, in my mind there is no question.”

“It's a hard job, and it's as simple as that."


lipstick hiker
03:27:52 PM

Oh please.. hehe.. I don't have to hear that HARD WORK speech again.. do I?..

;)”

“The lesser of two weevils”

“"Bison: uMm.. didn't I hear that last night in the debate?? Decisive and wrong?"

TownDawg
03:25:55 PM
10/01/04

OK TD you want to get in on this, please give me your reasoning on how Lee is right. This should be fun.

Let's go through this one more time.

1. If I received my income from dividends I would have recieved exactly the same percentage of tax relief as Lee's rich couple.

2. If they had received their income in wages they would have received LESS relief as a percentage than I did.

3. All of my income was in wages. It makes no sense to compare my relief to theirs. Even If our incomes had the same exact distribution, because I would have realized the same amount of relief on dividends as a percentage, and I would have realized MORE relief as a percentage on my wages than they would have. Ergo I would have recieved a higher percentage of relief than the rich couple.

You have to be pretty damn dumb, I'll be nice and say maybe misinformed, not to get this.

"Yes. YOU did benefit. YES. Your rates on ordinary income were lowered and compressed more than a wage earned of $200,000. BUT THAT IS NOT THE MEAT OF THE ISSUE. MORON"

Lee

Actually that is exactly the issue you dolt.

See I can call names too.”