The Debate 9/30

“No No.. you missed the point Bison. I'm leaving y'all's argument completely alone.. I was referring to Kerry's comments last night.. my mistake though, the quote was not decisive and wrong -- it was CERTAIN and wrong.. my mistake.

"But we do have differences. I'm not going to talk about a difference of character. I don't think that's my job or my business.

But let me talk about something that the president just sort of finished up with. Maybe someone would call it a character trait, maybe somebody wouldn't.

But this issue of certainty. It's one thing to be certain, but you can be certain and be wrong.

It's another to be certain and be right, or to be certain and be moving in the right direction, or be certain about a principle and then learn new facts and take those new facts and put them to use in order to change and get your policy right.

What I worry about with the president is that he's not acknowledging what's on the ground, he's not acknowledging the realities of North Korea, he's not acknowledging the truth of the science of stem-cell research or of global warming and other issues.

And certainty sometimes can get you in trouble."”

“and his comments where in repsonse to this by Bush -- "And that's my biggest concern about my opponent. I admire his service. But I just know how this world works, and that in the councils of government, there must be certainty from the U.S. president.

Of course, we change tactics when need to, but we never change our beliefs, the strategic beliefs that are necessary to protect this country in the world."”

“TD,go ahead and jump in on the other disagreement. You won't get anymore blasted than anyone else has if you disagree with Bison.”

“Ewker, the only insults I have put out on this thread were in response to the insults of others. Don't mischaracterize things.”

“Ewker: LMAO.. :).. Nope.. I'm staying out of that one.. Shoot.. I pay a guy to do my taxes.. I don't claim to be capable to fill out more than a simple 1040-EZ.

;)”

“Attention all TT participants! Kerry won the first debate. Sign up today for the next deer-hunting expedition where we employee the ultimate crawl, which is what we used to do through Lime Green Jellow.”

“"employee the ultimate crawl, which is what we used to do through Lime Green Jellow."

Does this involve women in bikinis?”

“TD,go ahead and jump in on the other disagreement. You won't get anymore blasted than anyone else has if you disagree with Bison."
Ewker
03:52:00 PM
10/01/04
ignore this user

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"Ewker, the only insults I have put out on this thread were in response to the insults of others. Don't mischaracterize things."
Bison
03:55:01 PM
10/01/04


Bison, tell me where in my post I said anything about you insulting anyone. Talk about mischaracterizing things.”

“Ewker you implied that I would "blast" him if he disagreed with me.”

“Allz I can say, as a Bush supporter, is that you know Kerry came across better in the debate when the best we Bush supporters can say is "it was a draw" (read - Bush wasn't his usual self and Kerry came across good). If it was really a "draw", then we'd be saying Bush creamed Kerry. But we can't concede the debate points, so it was a draw. Okay? Got it? There ya go. That doesn't take away from the fact that Kerry makes absolutely no logical sense in his positions, but in a debate that's not necessarily necessary. The Bush advisors need to make sure Bush understands that massive speed-blinking and cocking your head sidewise while making funny faces doesn't come across very good on a split screen while your opponent is talking. It just doesn't.”

“Bison, we have been blasting each other all day. I don't feel I have insulted you nor you me.”

“That's OK Ewker figured you were taking the Lee, let's insult people who don't agree with us, tack.”

“you want insults look at the TT Virtual Duel thread. Now there are some insults being thrown around.”

“Hey, that's where the people who would have agreed with me here were all day.”

“Did someone mention beaver Hunting?”

“

Kerry: Check out the beaver over there! Is she CNN or Fox?

Bush: You can't spell FOXY without FOX!”

“



Teresa: While they go check out the Fox beaver how 'bout I show you how much fun we can have with a ketchup bottle?

Laura: Thought you'd never ask! And you'll get to see why I shouldn't be called Bush”

“Pretty firm ass, btw!”

“

Nooooobudies hommmme!”

“towndawg, oh, did someone already say it was a tough job. Sorry for being redundant:)”

“Um, was there a time delay from when unkie dick whispered the answers back stage and bush got them in his earpiece?


"Uhhhh, ummmm. This...is... the Radio Clash....no wait! As I was saying, stay the course..."”

“Oh. And you thought Kerry cleaned Bush's clock in this debate? Just wait until they start talking about domestic issues!

OOOooh weeeee! That's gonna be fuuuuuuuun.”

“Caption for the above Bush pic:

The wheel's turning but the hamster's dead.”

“roseymonster, I guess you don't like him huh, lol, but don't be fooled by him. He's like a pitbull in a dress. You think what a nice dress, then go to pet him and lose an arm.”

“Bison
What is 2% of $15,000?
What is 2% of $200,000?

Which amount is bigger? Who benefitted more from the 2% tax cut???”

“In your case neither both got 2%.

You are attempting to pose a false premise Tango, 2% of 200,000 results in a larger number, but neither benefits more than the other, they both get 2%.”

“If trains leave simultaneously from Union Station and Grand Central, and are traveling at 125 mph, who will get the biggest tax cut by the time they get to New Orleans? :)”

“HUH???
I would much rather have $4000.00 than $300.00. (Plus what ever tax loop holes that are available to the richie rich)”

“Assuming that you're talking about Union Station in Washington, D.C. the person leaving from there gets the bigger cut, he or she is most likely a politician :)”

“But Tango if you don't earn that much it is completely irrelevant. If you are the one making less money you are still getting the same deal. If you are getting 3% back and you earn less you are still getting more of a cut, the cut is relevant to your income in comparison to the rich person's as a percentage.”

“You need to go look at this table and then come back and explain it:

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/TaxModel/tmdb/TMTemplate.cfm?Docid=725&DocTypeID=2

Good luck!”

“You could start by going to the correct page. Were talking about the 2001 tax cut here.”

“""you want insults look at the TT Virtual Duel thread. Now there are some insults being thrown around......."


Thank you, thank you. On behalf of the TT Virtual Duel thread, I want to thank you all for watching, hopefully ya didn't get that much blood on ya and I hope that some of you Republican pussies, sissy girlyman here would suck it up and take me up on it.

What do you say, Lips? You game?


GO KERRY!”

“I hope that Kerry starts to play up his church attendance in the domestic debates. I understand he is a faithful, weekly mass-goer.

Prior to the debates, Kerry was running behind among Catholics. I think he'd pick up some support in Michigan and Wisconsin - heavily Catholic states - if he'd contrast with Bush's hard-edged protestantism.

Vote your faith. Vote Kerry.”

“You could start by going to the correct page. Were talking about the 2001 tax cut here."
Bison
10:24:07 PM
10/01/04


So the tax cuts were for one year only? They don't apply this year??”

“I think Kerry did a better job during the first debate. Bush seemed to take the debate too personally."
bbw
05:00:46 PM
10/02/04”

“The tax cut that irks me the most is the inheritance tax. The tax was already eliminated for all but quite large estates. Early in this countries history, the inheritance tax was advocated as a way of preventing an inherited aristocracy of wealth and power.

The elimination of the inheritance tax only helps people with a lot of money and, IMO, is anti-democratic.”

“So the tax cuts were for one year only? They don't apply this year??"

Tango
05:03:33 PM
10/02/04

Of course they apply this year but you won't see the full effect comparing this years return to last years because only the marginal rates are effected. The meat of what you got came in 2001 the first year of the tax cut.”

“Please note, I said "advocated" - it has been imposed and repealed as a "transfer tax" an "inheritance tax" and an "estate tax" at different times in history.

The exemption had been raised in recent years from 120,000 (1976) to 225K (1981) to 600,000 (1986) to 1 million (phased in starting 1997). I'd be comfortable putting it 2 million - with some additional exemptions to allow true family farms and small businesses to be passed down (instead of sold off to pay taxes).”

“Ped, farms are in so much trouble they need a miracle! It is sad sad sad.

I am done with you bison, I think you are now being deliberatly obtuse. bah bye!”

“This long-lived discussion about taxes must be a Republican conspiracy to divert attention from Bush's miserable performance in the debate, with Bison sacrificing himself for the GOP cause.

In W's words, this is hard work, we're working hard, shucks this is hard work trying to outlast this discussion.”

“I am done with you bison, I think you are now being deliberatly obtuse. bah bye!"

Tango
07:32:33 PM
10/02/04

What a shame Tango, I suggest that in the future you learn to count years, last year was 2003, the year before it was 2002, the year before that was 2001 (the year the tax cut originally went into effect) etc... This is not an obtuse concept, and if you learn it (they really should have taught you this in elementary school) I assure you it will help you in many ways.”

“JO -

The long lived discussion about taxes has nothing to do with Bush or anyone else, it has to do with certain people around here trying to confuse others about what really happened when eggtra was enacted.”

“Yeah, Tango - the loss of family farms and small family businesses is really sad. The only family farms that survive around here are ones that benefit from State laws taxing a lot of farm land at a lower rate than other land - and that find some speciality niche (organic/local or restaurant speciality). I try to get local small farm stuff, but its hard when money is tight. The same thing with small, stand alone stores and trades. The mega discount stores and the huge low margin high volume supermarkets are so much more affordable and money is tight.

I started working a couple hours a week at a food coop, so I could afford more local small farms and small business stuff. It's fresher, tastier and better for me and my kids, too. I was stunned a few years back when a friend of mine gave me eggs from her chickens - the difference in taste and color was mind blowing.”

“Yep, I grew up on a farm in PA and I still remember the first time I drank store bought milk, YUCK!! It was like water. We had chickens that ran around outside and ate all kinds of things, it is amazing how gold the yolk is compared to store bought.”

“Kerry Wins Debate, Appears 'Almost Senatorial'


Political commentators from the major American TV news networks and CBS unanimously declared John Forbes Kerry the winner of his first debate with President George Bush.

"This is a clear triumph for Kerry," said one unnamed CNN pundit. "His performance was way above expectations. He looked almost senatorial, which is virtually tantamount to looking almost presidential."

Meanwhile, at Mr. Kerry's south Florida campaign headquarters, the mood was jubilant.

"Convincing Americans that John Kerry is actually a U.S. Senator would be a major credibility boost," said one campaign aide. "What's important tonight is that he's nearly got the look. That's 90 percent of the battle."

ScrappleFace”

“Debate 2004 - Kerry: "Every Muslim on earth fears a second Bush term." Bush: "No #&%!$ Sherlock"


Transcript, first Presidential debate 9/30/04, Miami Florida.
Moderator: Senator Kerry, as you know, some have accused President Bush of alienating friendly Muslim nations in his war on terrorism. As President, how will you go about repairing relationships with friendly Muslim nations?

John Kerry: Well, first, let me say this. President Bush has waged a war of unmitigated destruction upon the Muslim nations of Iraq and Afghanistan. He has refused to differentiate between Muslim fundamentalist and Muslim terrorists, thereby making enemies out of potential terrorists before they actually become terrorists. Moreover, he has indiscriminately bombed hot-bed Iraqi cities—such as Falluja and Najaf—before consulting with the resistance leaders, thereby making those who hate us really really hate us. The President and his neo-con cabal . . .

Moderator: . . . Senator Kerry, the question put to you was what would you as . . .

John Kerry: I know what the question was, ok? Now let me finish. At this point, Muslims are afraid of President Bush. They actually fear what he will do next. Muslim leaders now have to consider the consequences before they act. Whereas a Kerry presidency would go about reparing relationships with Muslim lands, in reality every Muslim on earth fears a second Bush term.

Moderator: Mr. President, do you have a response?

George Bush: (looking confused) . . . no #&%!$ Sherlock . . . (smirks, gives thumbs up the Cheney in audience).

Broken Newz”

“Bison

I've met ya buddy, so out of respect I'll say that you're wrong and being stubborn about it.
Your obviously strong pride and persistance, while admirable while say climbing a mountain, is hurting you.”

“JO -

I am not wrong, I was arguing a matter of fact. Someone else decided to make the argument from a matter of perspective and use that to argue that the facts were wrong, they are not wrong. If someone takes the perspective as valid that is fine, but it does not change the fact (the perspective that the rich got more of a cut becuase they recieved more total dollars vs. I got more of a cut because I recieved a higher percentage). If you consider that the rich recieving more total dollars to mean that they benefited more that is fine, that is not what the original argument was, and it does not change the fact on comparison of the cut as a percentage of wages earned I received more of a cut than a rich person.”

“Tango and Ped, you are right on about the organic eggs. Thats all we buy and what a difference in taste and color.”