We Run Iraq

“Moral to the story:

If you start off by addressing your audience as "a$$holes," you look silly pitching a fit when one of them calls you dumb in turn.”

“stanlee, you are so funny: wearing a burka and beating her with sticks, I'm passing out laughing. You are totally right about the next time, she may not get kidnapped by "nicer" kidnappers, lol.

Even if we didn't truly go in for weapons of mass destruction, we did get a dictator out, and we are helping to get this country on the right track and the "side" benefits. I'm for getting us out of there as soon as possible too.

Of course, there are other countries that can fall under the heading of needing to be saved from their dictators too, and that is why there is more to this story about going into Iraq.

I welcome comments or critiques on what I say. I'm not big on politics, and don't follow them closely and would like to hear what everyone else has to say.

MarkO, I will have to look up what that saying is later. I wish you would just translate it. That doesn't look Italian either. It looks more like Latin. Does it mean take off your burka and kick up your heals? It should!

We are having a beautiful day in WA today. It's sunny and going to be 72 degrees or I would stick around longer.

I receive a dancing Bush e-mail, but it's not a great one. He's just doing a kind of moon walk. There was a good one a year or so ago. Why do people always want to make this man dance, LMAO!!!!!?”

“I'm not sure if you disagree with her on this or not:
"She says we are running the country through who is picked to run the gov't."

Have you heard that people in the White House and the Bush campaign itself had a hand in writing Allawi's speech to Congress? If that doesn't reveal the puppetmaster's strings to you, I think you're beyond reason.”

“...but I don't think you deserve to be beheaded.”

“So you're saying we're propping up a different dictator under the guise of a democratic government?

If the elections don't happen I might buy that.”

“Holy Moly Violin! I was wondering why Allawi was harming his own credibility in Iraq to campaign for Bush. There, at least, is part of the answer.”

“Pax Vobiscum, is I guess kind of a pun,. In the Latin Mass, they say Pax Vobiscum - Peace Be Upon You (plural, like y'all). Pax Tecum (I think) is the singular. So basically, he was saying a Pox on Y'all - whomever y'all is.”

“After WWII, how long did we stay in Europe and Japan to govern them? You can not go into a country to take out the leadership and expect the population to take over tomorrow. There is now an Interem Prime Minister which was chosen by a group of Iraqi dignitaries. The new government needs some proping up and will need it for quite a while. Certainly it will have the stench of American involvement.”

“Ooops, I meant to say Pox Vobiscum was a pun on Pax Vobiscum.”

“With this war, it's about finding weapons of mass destruction or it was for no reason. Some people can't see past that, but there is so much more.

Think about this. Bush commiitted what could be considered almost a Godly act. He SAVED these people along with the help from troops from this country and the other countries. He SAVED the men that stood up against Saddam were killed, he SAVED the women, and gave them back their dignity, their right to expression, there really is too much to say about what the woman got back including as we all know, not getting beat, being able to see when they walk because they had to wear burkas.

I think more children are attending school, and now girls can go to school too. There is no way at this time to determine what the effect of woman going to school will have on the country and this world. They may produce a world leader that's a peacemaker, or a phD that finds a cure for a certain type of cancer or some other disease. The possibilities are endless, simply endless.

For some Iraqis there is still a lot of fighting, and their lives are being lost, but with Sadddam in charge, they may have been lost anyway. You could say it's like you were going to die, but God decided to let you live, but dropped you in a lake with an alligator. You still have a chance to live. I'd go with that, than with certain death. He gave them a fighting chance to live even though they still struggle.

I'm not up on what's going on there, but I know life is better if many more ways that I haven't listed.

What did we get? Another ally, more territory, global positioning, access to oil and who knows what else. We, our country and others gave LIFE back to these people that had no chance before, so we gained....I don't know what to call it. What do you call it when you give your life to save another's life. I guess we showed the world our courage and strength to thwart a horrific leaders, but I know there are better words that I can't think of right now to espress for us giving our lives for someone elses.

Yes, people are still dying, our people, their people and the troops from other countries, but Bush is not directly responsible for that. He can't magically make the insurgents and rebels disappear.

I know I could have said this all in a better way, but the words escape me right now. I just got up.”

“Burkas were in Afghanistan, not Iraq. Women held high level posts in Saddam's government. Girls went to school under Saddam.

Tell all the innocent people who have been killed, not just by us but the "rebels" as well, how much better life is now than it was before. Tell the people whose homes are destroyed.

Increasingly, we are hearing more and more Iraqis turn against us. If life is so great there now, why is this happening?”

“It's a joke, dear.

Pax Vobiscum = peace be with you

Pox is a disease.......

Dominus Vobiscum = god be with you

Quackus Rectum = fart
OK, that's joke too

Bush is not responsible?
I agree.”

“Sometimes it's jusat pointless arguing with people who just don't get it.”

“What Geobeet said and…

A recent Gallup poll indicated that 42% of Iraqis would vote for Saddam if he were to run for President. That has to tell you something about how much better life is.”

“Both sides feel they're right. Both sides feel they know what is true and what isn't. And in reality, neither side has the monopoly on correctness.

Oooo - deep.”

“I got my terrorist countries mixed up, oops, but I heard it said that more children are attending school in Iraq than before.

I have heard from a few people that were in Iraq or stationed in other countries that they were happy we were there. I guess you can't make everyone happy. Who would want Saddam in power in Iraq?They have to be happy he is gone. You could see it on tv, with your own two eyes how happy the people were that he was taken out, and you could see them welcoming the troops.

I have received an e-mail from a soldier in Iraq that said all the good we did in improving the countries we ocuppied, but I can't say for sure if the e-mail real or a phony.”

“You actually seem to have hit upon the key point LH, completely in error.

"all the countries we OCCUPIED."

An ill-thought out plan and invasion, and that's what you're left with, occupation not liberation.”

“Well, actually, the invasion went very well. The post-war planning was incompetent, though. If it even existed, that is...”

“I'm looking at the reasons for the invastion and it's ongoing implications, but point taken.”

“The reasons? Like regional hegemony and strong-arming neighboring terrorist states?

Sounds like good reasons to me!”

“We'll see just how well "strong-arming" works.

I can't believe that it has worked any more than temporarily anywhere else.”

“yeah, but they're not looking too successul at the moment.”

“How can you guys go on like this wasting time on this thread? Don't you know there's a Little Debbies thread going?!”

“Mutt is correct. The invasion came off very well. That is what our forces are trained for. Occupying the country and fighting a sustained guerilla war is not what they are trained for. It's becoming Vietnam all over again.

LH, when our troops took that insurgent-held city over the weekend, the villagers came out and told the troops how happy they were. It came to me that the same thing happened in Vietnam.

Whenever a military force goes into a country or city, the people run out and say how happy they are. They are trying to make friends with the power that is at that moment. That does not necessarily mean they will stay friends for long.

So we retook that city, and the Iraqis will patrol it. Shrub will crow about the success of the mission. But unless they figure out how to deal with the ongoing insurgency long-term, it will just keep see-sawing back and forth. We've been down this road before. This is where I came into the theater.”

“I mean you can have the grandest strategic plans, but if you don't execute the details properly then they just become costly liabilities.”

“Fighting the native population usually becomes a disaster.

What Geo said, the natives will kiss right up hoping that they don't get killed by the occupier.”

“Very profound V.

X

there, am I smart too? LOL!”

“ghoulbeet, I know I would be grateful to troops that came to save me no matter what their reasoning for doing so was.

Now as for occupation, and running the country, if it were in my best interest in my living a good life, I would be for that too.

Nigal is right, check out the Little Debbie thread!”

“yes, good old American knows what's best for them LH. Maybe the Soviet Union knew what was best for America during the cold war. Or Britian during the war of Independence, or Japan in WW2.”

“Lips: Look at it from an Iraqi's point of view - when they rose up against Saddam after the gulf war, BushI let Saddam mow them down (after he called on them to rise up). The US policy implemented by Reagan, Rumsfeld and others helped Saddam even after he gassed Kurds and Iranians. Then the US comes in, and manaouever's to create a new power structure using allies distrusted by most Iraqi's (including Chalabi who turned out to be playing the US as well). Is it any wonder they do not feel we came in to save them.

The resposne to the invading US forces wasn't nearly as positive as the US media portrayed. In control room, one Arabic speaker says that the shouts at a rally portrayed as pro-Bush by Fox was actually of Iraqi's yelling "Damn Bush!"

Even Mutt, pro-war as he is - doesn't pretend saving Iraqi's was the reason or even one of the top most reasons we went in.”

“ped, I understand what you are saying about coming in, then leaving them hanging.

Ped, how are you feeling these days? I don't know if I missed any updates. I know this is a weird place to ask how you are doing, but how are you doing?

Have your burns healed? Do you need any grafting at this point? You scared the crap out of everyone here with your heroics.

Did you buy a new house? I know that smoke is very damaging. Even cigarette smoke is bad in a house. I looked at an apt to rent when I was young and the ceiling was tan, and they said it was from the last guy that lived there and smoked. I didn't take that apt.”

“Ped, where did you go? Don't make me have to start a "PedXing Update" thread!!!!”

“Ped, where did you go? Don't make me have to start a "PedXing Update" thread!!!!”

“Hey Lips -

Thanks for asking. I'm doing OK - back to work, not full time yet but increasing. The house is now being worked on and insurance has settled on most of the losses. I raised the flag on Mt. Willey in NH as part of a 9/11 memorial for my first hike after the fire. Artex and Phantom Soul joined me, my wife and some friends for the hike.

I had tons of grafts, and they are healing pretty well. I made need a little surgery on my hands because the webbing is getting filled with scar tissue - but I'm mostly OK. Except for my hands (and the special gloves I have to wear) I'm feeling very close to normal already - which is very lucky.

I did an interview for the Early Show (CBS's morning news show) on the fire for a piece they are doing on candle fires. I'm not sure if they'll use it. I'd turned down a TV interview earlier, but I was more up to it - I'm also aware now that candle fires are increasing (they've doubled in 15 years). Gee - I talk a lot!

I hope your well and having fun.”

“Whether we are talking personally or arguing politics, its always a pleasure.”

“Ped, Wow! The hair on my arms is standing on end reading about your grafts and that you are still going through this pain and surgery. I'm sorry to hear this. I think I may have forgotten how badly you were burned, I'm sorry to say though I was wondering if you were still wearing special protective clothing, for lack of a better or correct word. I hope the healing goes quickly for you and as painlessly as possible.

We had a candle fire in WA in an area called Winthrop about a year or so ago. The gal set the hotel she was in on fire and the whole forest around her. This tiny western town is set in the middle of a forest. They get cougar in town.

I know you may not want to start a thread about yourself, but you better if the Early Show airs your piece!

And please, you don't talk alot. There are people here that should talk less, but you are not one of them :)

How long has it been since the fire?”

“Ped, now that I think of it, I had a small emergency myself the other day. I couldn't breathe at about 3am. It was like breathing through a tiny straw. In the hospital, they put me on the breathing machine (nebulizer) to breathe in vapor with medicine in it. Other asthmatics will know what I mean.

The doctor said to me, "you have asthma?" I said, "Yes", and she was walking away, but I knew it was something more.

To make a long story short, I called her back and told her the last events of the night. Turns out I ate rice with red sauce on it close to going to sleep. Then she said that not being able to breakth was from the acid from the food that went into my lungs. It turns out this can be deadly.

So to sum it up, don't eat or drink alcohol too close to going to sleep. I never eat 3 hours before going to bed. The first time I do and I'm in the hospital.

I ate late last night, so I took a Pepsid AC before going to sleep, but it's best to live right and not take pills.”

“2% = 2%

If George W. Bush uses 2% of his brain, and his brain is 50% smaller than the average human brain, then, A normal person using 2% of his/her brain debating GWB with 2% of his 1/2 a normal brain, has more brain power.”

“That's more like it!”

“What a great thread! Wish i could read all of it.

On that note, has anyone stated that a majority of the Italian people were against the war from the beginning?”

“Statistician Blues
Todd Snider

They say 3 percent of the people use 5 to 6 percent of their brain
97 percent use 3 percent and the rest goes down the drain
I'll never know which one I am but I'll bet you my last dime
99 percent think with 3 percent 100 percent of the time

64 percent of all the world's statistics are made up right there on the spot
82.4 percent of people believe 'em whether they're accurate statistics or not
I don't know what you believe but I do know there's no doubt
I need another double shot of something 90 proof
I got too much to think about

Too much to think about
Too much to figure out
Stuck between hope and doubt
It's too much to think about

They say 92 percent of everything you learned in school was just bull#&%!$ you'll never need
84 percent of everything you got you bought to satisfy your greed
Because 90 percent of the world's population links possessions to success
Even though 80 percent of the wealthiest 1 percent of the population
Drinks to an alarming excess
More money, more stress

It's too much to think about
Too much to figure out
Stuck between hope and doubt
It's too much to think about
Pick it now

84 percent of all statisticians truly hate their jobs
They say the average bank robber lives within say about 20 miles of the bank that he robs
There's this little bank not far from here I've been watching now for a while
Lately all I can think about's how bad I wanna go out in style

And it's too much to think about
Too much to figure out
Stuck between hope and doubt
It's too much to think about
That's right
It's too much to think about
Amen
It's too much to think about
Mmm hmmm”

“Lips - Gee what a scare. Glad you're OK. I've been taking mega anti-acids myself (my throat was irritated by intubation and still needs to heal, so any acid reflux will prevent it from healing).

As for protective garments, the only ones I need to wear now are the gloves. The other stuff is now optional. I found this out when I finally met the surgeon who did most of the work on me - for a follow up appointment. He's a Texan, who wears cowboy boots under his scrubs. Funny, one Texan gave me life at the beginning and another saved it this year. (Hook 'em Horns!)

It's been almost eight months now, will be on the 15th.”

“While I'm off topic: I'm glad we can exchange political heat without hard feelings. I've got some big Bush supporters in my the clan. One of my Texan cousins was a POW in Vietnam. His family when to their congressman - George Bush Sr. - for support and help with POW/MIA issues. He was fantastic to them. He stayed involved and supportive after he left congress and went into the Nixon administration after losing a Senate race. They are even fiercely loyal to him than they are to the Longhorn football team. Putting his son down riles them up as much as supporting the Aggies or the Sooners.

The Northeast branch of the clan love our GW Bush loving cousins far more than we hate their politics - although I'm always happy when I talk to the Texas cousins who agree with me.”

“Those savant people are unbelievable. I think you may call them retarded. They can't perform normal activities by themselves or sometimes live alone, but one I read about can perform a complete piano concerto after hearing it only once.

That's the thing about dying. You don't get to see what the future will bring. Like I think using the space ships we use are kind of old fashioned. Then there may come a time when we learn to stimulate our brains to use the whole thing. I wonder why we can't use our whole brain? Maybe we need to reach that goal slowly for a reason.

Then for you outer space afficiendados, you know there is life out there right now that we can't interact with. How frustrating. I know in my lifetime, we will probably not be able to contact that life form whatever it is.”

“I like that TD -

Did you hear the one about the statistician who drowned in a lake with an average depth of 4 feet?”

“Light is Too Slow, dammit! LOL”

“Iraqis loyal to Saddam are so scared that democracy might work over there, they're destroying power plants, water plants and oil pipes etc. just to disrupt the country. In doing so, they're making their countryman/woman suffer....not that they care, they were terrorizing them before already.

Neighbouring countries don't want democracy to work in Iraq too. If it works...it might encourage their own citizens to demand for democracy. That's why they're sending their fighters into Iraq, to help Saddam's remaining fighters.”