Oil economics

“WTF?
If we're not going to support the arts, let's go all the way and discourage all expression.

A sterile society is far less bothersome.”

“you just made my point for me. If its something you support you see no problem dumping tax money into it. If its not something you support then you see plenty of problems. Its in the eye of the beholder. I think much of the money that goes to arts is pork, and what goes to PBS is even worse.”

“PBS is controlled by advertizers almost as much as Fox Noose. As long as they have an income tax on corps, they will use the advertizing deductions to control the media. Get out of the income tax business and into the value added, less you create subsidies that put the legislators up for sale.”

“Thanks for expressing my opinion HyWay, trouble is it ain't my opinion.

We have a democratic legislative process to decide how the money is spent and they can't make everyone happy about everything.
But we can pester our own legislators with our complaints and praise.

All bullets and no crayons, huh?”

“I think the government should subsidize religion. Then I can quit putting money in the basket.”

“Here's two opposing views on the ethanol debate.

"Archer Daniels Midland, the Decatur, Ill.-based agricultural giant, saw a 42 percent increase in its quarterly profit, to $517 million, amid volatile grain markets. Acknowledging high food prices, Patricia Woertz, the company's chairwoman and CEO, made a passionate defense of the ethanol industry that has benefited the company.

"Retreat from biofuels is wrong; it's dangerous, it's a mistake," Woertz said. "It won't fill anybody's stomach and won't fill any gas tanks."

But Tyson Foods Inc. was saddled with a $5 million quarterly loss because of higher feed costs, and CEO Richard Bond fingered ethanol as the cause. He questioned the investment in a form of energy that will never displace oil's role in the economy.

"In 2007, ethanol production will replace only 3 percent of U.S. oil imports," Bond said. "The fact is we can't grow enough corn in this country to make a dent in our petroleum dependency."

President Bush sympathized with the families who exhaust their paychecks on groceries and gasoline, but he remains committed to the possibilities for ethanol.

"The high price of gasoline is going to spur more investment in ethanol as an alternative to gasoline," Bush said Tuesday. "And the truth of the matter is it's in our national interests that our farmers grow energy, as opposed to us purchasing energy from parts of the world that are unstable or may not like us."”

“Marko, it isn't the federal governments job to take income taxes and redistribute that money to subsidize the arts, oil companies or any other private operation. Now if they want to give tax credit to companies/organizations that provides those things then sure go ahead.

“People make up the government, corporations buy those people..........The People pay to subsidize incompetence and greed.”
MarkO
10:02:41 AM
4/29/08

I see a lot of that in the art community as well as the business community”

“And, all because we just can't say' NO 'to the car keys.”

“I tend to fall in the no subsidies for anyone camp... the market should be allowed to govern price and availibility”

“"Marko, it isn't the federal governments job to take income taxes and redistribute that money to subsidize the arts, oil companies or any other private operation."

I'm not disagreeing with you.

How does public funding of arts and culture compare to propping up military industry with public funds?”

“because the purpose of the federal government is to provide for Defense. let the states support the arts.

It has occurred to me that you might be thinking that I support subsidies for oil companies. I do not.”

“I think the government should subsidize religion. Then I can quit putting money in the basket.

Wouldn't be any subsidies if you were all like Nimble and didn't report that church stuff on your schedule'A'.HEHE”

“Good point. I don't even go to church, but my tax return looks like I'm buying a new batmobile for the pope every year.”

“"....because the purpose of the federal government is to provide for Defense."

Wasting money on gold-plated wonder weapons that are never used is hardly providing for defense especially when public education and general infrastructure is lacking.

Another purpose of government is to promote domestic tranquility, something that education and health can improve and maintain.”

“stretchhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh”

“Only a stretch for those that need it to be.”

“Oh Marko, Bush already proved you don't need a Phd. to 'fix things up real good'.”

“So far it seems ethanol has done much more harm in the world market than good. More expensive than oil, less effective as a fuel, increasing considerably the hardship on millions dependent on grains for food. It doesn't make economic sense, scientific sense, or humanitarian sense. Greed sucks.”

“And what exactly have we been defending ourselves from lately?.....”

“Clinton: Let Uncle Sam Determine Profits
May 01, 2008 11:41 AM ET | James Pethokoukis

Hillary Clinton was on Fox News's The O'Reilly Factor last night and said what she would do about high gas prices:

In the short term, I do want a gas tax holiday but to pay for it by putting a windfall profits tax on the oil companies.... The oil companies have made out like bandits, and there is no basis for them to have these huge profits. They're not inventing anything new.... You set a baseline and, above that baseline, you begin to tax their profits.

As they say on my favorite TV show, Battlestar Galactica, "All this has happened before, and all of it will happen again." We tried a windfall profits tax in 1980, with lousy results. This from the Tax Foundation (boldface mine):

During the 1980s the federal government experimented with a new tax intended to limit the "windfall profits" of domestic oil companies. In reaction to the rise of energy prices during the late 1970s and the removal of price controls on the energy industry, President Jimmy Carter signed the Crude Oil Windfall Profits Tax Act into effect on April 2, 1980.... The windfall profits tax was forecasted to raise more than $320 billion between 1980 and 1989. However, according to the Congressional Research Service, the government collected only $80 billion in gross tax revenue ($146 billion in 2004 dollars). The net amount was actually less than this—roughly $40 billion—because the tax was deductible...CRS also found the windfall profits tax had the effect of decreasing domestic production by 3 percent to 6 percent, thereby increasing American dependence on foreign oil sources by 8 percent to 16 percent.... The 1980 windfall profits tax was also found to be highly burdensome for the industry to comply with and for the Internal Revenue Service to administer, especially in years when no revenue was raised. It seems unlikely that a new tax could be designed in a less burdensome fashion. Tax Foundation economists estimate that U.S. companies currently spend nearly $150 billion annually to comply with the federal income tax alone.”

“This thread will die when transportation nolonger can be used as an expense of doing businss.”

“Oil, what oil?

www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/4237853.html?series=19”

“That's a cool vehicle, but it doesn't look very safe to be in, if you got in a collision.”

“Formula and Indy cars are better than what we drive and this thing is high ,light and well designed.

If the SUV is a standard of safety, better get into the truth of how horrible they really are. By the way this is not a car, it is a tricycle motor cycle(see the Cal license plate and no bumpers).

Let's face the fact that the rich are the only ones that can afford anything other than what we all drive and maybe they'll do the research to find the things that work and what doesn't. GM had the EC-1 , but killed it because the status quo of the millions of people that live off the economy of their other god awful things.

If you're afraid you'll never go to another gas station, they'll have groups that share the pain for their local unemployed Iranians.”

“I watched the news last night and thieves sawed off the catalytic converters on 30 new SUV's parked at a local car dealership. They said the metals inside are worth $200 per unit. The local police have reported some stolen converters at mall parking lots, but never this many stolen at one time.”

“That link needs an oil change or maybe I can't get through the filter.”

“I can't get it either.”

“grazie”

“Wish I knew who that salebored is.I met him on a mountain trail in late 2001. He was a tall guy with a beard ,funny hat sandles and a long shirt. I told him of TT and wrote that salebored name and the password on an expired AAA card and traded it for a neat walking stick.”

“Did you go upside Salebored's head with that neat stick?

Was the funny hat to cover a shiny dome?”

“The stick is broken , but I can't remember anything about a salebored after that stick broke- Oh wait, Kerry had onw of them there things.

That link rev is wright on about the black stuff, no?
last edited: 5/11/08 11:00:25 AM”

“The Dingle Peninsula is located in County Kerry.”

“Write on, dig it and all that groovy stuff.”

“It's not looking too good for ethanol lately.

"Soaring corn and soy prices on top of rising construction costs and tight credit markets have pushed about a dozen U.S. biofuel plants to file for bankruptcy protection, experts said.

Prices for corn, the feedstock for most U.S. ethanol plants, hit fresh records above $8 per bushel this week as floods this month in the Midwest have caused billions of dollars of crop damage.

"Corn prices are making the feasibility of ethanol plants every day more and more questionable," said Alex Moglia, president of Moglia Advisors in suburban Chicago, which helps biofuel companies restructure.

Meanwhile prices for soy oil, the feedstock for most biodiesel plants, have been high on rising global demand for months, making life miserable for most producers. The miserable profit margins have pushed many makers of the alternative motor fuel to run plants at only about half of their capacity.

Moglia said about 12 small to midsize biodiesel and ethanol plants have declared bankruptcy in recent months. Renova Energy LLC, a company that owns a partially built 20 million-gallons-per year ethanol plant in Idaho, was the latest to declare bankruptcy last week. Kansas-based Ethanex Energy Inc

declared bankruptcy in March.

"There will be more to follow," said Moglia. Some plants are restructuring their debt and taking steps to manage risks, but many others are not, he said.

U.S. ethanol plants are still opening but plans for the opening of plants through 2009 are being increasingly delayed or scrapped."
last edited: 7/06/08 7:23:36 AM”

“Gas prices change views on energy
By H. JOSEF HEBERT
Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON — High gasoline prices have dramatically changed Americans' views on energy and the environment with more people now viewing oil drilling and new power plants as a greater priority than energy conservation than they did five months ago, according to a new survey.

The poll released Tuesday by the Pew Research Center shows nearly half of those surveyed — or 47 percent — now rate energy exploration, drilling and building new power plants as the top priority, compared with 35 percent who believed that five months ago.

Link






When will Congress start doing the will of the people?”

“I can go back to sleep, you all have all the solutions.”

“No surprise.... its always been screw the grandkids for the me me me generation...”

“I think we need a cautious, safe plan for expanding energy exploration with safeguards and accountability for clean up. Otherwise, environmentalists will keep trying blocking exploration until the pressure is overwhelming and then it we could have an extreme mess.

A good energy usage reduction program would do more than the lifting of all environmental restrictions, but that doesn't mean there should be no compromise on any drilling restrictions.”

“I think we need a cautious, safe plan for expanding energy exploration with safeguards and accountability for clean up.

We already have this and then some. Part of the reason we are in this crunch is due to over regulation. The technology and techniques they use for drilling and extraction allow them to leave a footprint some ten times smaller than the old way.”

“An Associated Press computer analysis of Bureau of Land Management records found that 80 percent of federal lands leased for oil and gas production in Wyoming aren't producing anything. Neither are 83 percent of the leased acres in Montana, 77 percent in Utah, 71 percent in Colorado, 36 percent in New Mexico and 99 percent in Nevada.

The reporters have tried to get info on the amount of exploratory drilling done on already leased acres to no avail.

a floor speech by Rep. David Wu (D-OR): “WHY SHOULD WE OPEN LAND FOR DRILLING WHEN BIG OIL ISN’T EVEN DRILLING WHERE THEY HAVE LEASES?” (Mr. WU asked and was given permission to address the House for 1 minute and to revise and extend his remarks.) Mr. Wu goes on: “Madam Speaker, it is no wonder that the only Republican solution to our record high gas prices is more drilling. Who would expect anything less when two former oil executives occupy the White House? The problem is that this has been the Republican energy plan for the last 7 years. It was created in secret by Vice President CHENEY and oil executives. And it is responsible for the record high oil prices that we all face at the pump today. Republicans claim that we could lower the price at the pump if we would only approve more and more drilling leases. That is their rhetoric. Here are the facts. Oil companies do not need new areas to drill. They need to focus on areas that are already opened to them. Of the 42 million acres of Federal land currently leased by oil and gas companies, only about 12 million acres are actually being drilled to produce oil and natural gas. Madam Speaker, if the Republican claims about more drilling are correct, why aren’t they demanding Big Oil explore drilling on the 30 million acres of Federal land that are already open to them but that they refuse to explore?”

Believe me, with oil at $130 per barrel, they would drill on those lands if it made sense to do so! No, not all oil and gas leases are “being used”, because not all of them have production-worthy quantities of oil or gas. Lots of people have property that is not being used, but government doesn’t use it as an excuse to take it away, or to forbid the owners from buying other property.

First, a company may lease property, but never have the funds to properly explore it or drill an exploratory well. Second, after paying for further tests (such as seismic), they often decide the lease isn’t worth the high, high costs of drilling after all. Or they may hold onto the lease for years until either higher oil prices or new technology makes it feasible to drill. Third, a company may lease property but drill on another tract (which drains a “pool” that covers multiple leased tracts), so perhaps they’re counting it as “not used” if no well is sunk on that particular piece of property. Fourth, they may try to drill and be blocked by government bureaucrats, environmental lawsuits, etc.

Finally, not all acres are alike. Some have lots of oil. Others have virtually known. Saying they’re not drilling for oil everywhere is like faulting them for not digging a gold mine on every acre.”

“Wu shows himself to be the typical representative. Ignorant of the facts and hell bent on showing it to the world.”

“I just wonder why they keep the leases if they don't expect to drill on them?”

“Nigal - I don't disagree that we have the technology and the capability. I just think we need safeguards and accountability. The company that profits should be fully responsible for clean-up and restoration.”

“We do have safeguards and accountability. They've been there for decades. As with most things it's not a matter of needing even more laws, but simply enforce the old ones.”

“Problems are dynamic and their solutions can only grow at a rate equal to, or, as in reality, slightly less. As size and complexity increase, solutions rate of growth begins to lag, more and more, that of problem growth.”

“http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/science/07/08/pickens.plan/index.html

No way he gets enough help from the government to get this going”

“Good for him to seek other sources.”