Oil economics

“LMFAO! Talk about painting yourselves into a corner! Damned if you do, damned if you don't!”

“At 10 cars per acre the cars can't be 6,000lb SUVs.”

“I've been waiting for that one Tilt.
Not too long ago there was much hubub on the news about Brazil's conversion to biofuels made from sugarcane.

If I remember correctly back in the late 80's and 90's (when the conversion was ramping up) all the concern in the news was over rain forest deforestation in the Amazon so they could grow more sugarcane.

But it's worth investigating.
Beats the crap out of doing nothing.
last edited: 2/08/08 7:09:09 AM”

“'55 and what do we need to stay alive?' what was his name?”

“Biodiesel can be made from any oil-producing plant and fuel from different plants can be mixed to any degree with any other including petro diesel.
Various plants are suited to their own area such as algae in the U.S. southwest and soy in the east.

Again, biodiesel is not THE solution but one of many and a good choice for those who do not wish to throw their money at the petroleum industry.



“Raw algae can be processed to make biocrude, the renewable equivalent of petroleum, and refined to make gasoline, diesel, jet fuel, and chemical feedstocks for plastics and drugs. Indeed, it can be processed at existing oil refineries to make just about anything that can be made from crude oil.”

This blog recently picked up the clarion cry for an algae lobby. Algae, plainly referred to as pond scum, can produce up to 10,000 gallons of oil per acre and can be grown virtually anywhere, so say the researchers at Utah State University that have received $6 million dollars over five years to grow it in Utah desert.”

“then what you are telling us is that bio fuels suck. figures.”
Pamela
10:14:12 AM
2/07/08

NO, petroleum sucks.
And the people who produce it have been eating our lunch for decades.”

“The desert in which I live has little water ,but sun, sun and more sun. Electric makes the most sence for these conditions. PV panels are a start, but way costly and solar thermal just hasn't been scaled down and proven for the home owner.”

“But...................change is coming.

We the people must dictate change and keep the petro industry from hijacking our future.”

“How? How do we stop the next producer of fuels from becoming as big and bad as the current ones?”

“It's okay Noncon .... they'll be Mac users.”

“That's one of the reasons for the home owner to become independent of the piggy suits.”

“Enron ---We miss you so
your WH ties we'll never know........”

“I read in a similar article in the NYTimes ("Studies Deem Biofuels a Greenhouse Threat") that sugarcane didn't present the same problems.”

“I remember that sugarcane was one of the better crops to use but I seem to remember reading that there was a deforestation angle to consider too. It's been a while since I read that.

But much the same there will be additional need for cropland as food crop growers convert to fuel crops”

“Tilt, Brazil could be considered one of the most independent and stable of the worlds economies at this time.”

“Re Brazil: Hot weather, hot food, hot women. Yeah. They pretty much have it going on...”

“the algea thing was new to me. thanks for posting that.

a conservative estimate i read this evening was that biofuel from algea would require 10 million acres to meet current demand. that's 15,625 square miles or about the size of maryland (12,407 square miles). the entire us has 3,537,441 square miles... so we are talking about .4% of the area of the united states. even if you take out alaska (656,425 square miles) you aren't looking at a lot of our land.

by the way, the same math applies to the requirements for space for landfills. we are for sure NOT running out of places to bury our garbage.”

“New Jersey is probably running out of space for landfills. For the last decade they've been hauling garbage from there and dumping it in landfills in Northeastern PA.

Because of more corn being diverted to ethanol production it caused the price of corn to rise. That resulted in tortilla protests in Mexico since the price of tortillas rose 400%. Tens of thousands of people have marched on Mexico city in protest. For many of Mexico's poorest people the tortilla is a staple of their diet, with as much as a third of their wages being spent on the bread, after the price rise.”

“The new up and coming entertainment for the rich: watching helpless poor tear each other apart.

Life changes, life goes on.....”

“Massah, We've been shuckin' all day, can we just have one ladle of that stuff we'za makin' for your car tank?”

“Exxon oughta be launching a few exploratory rockets soon...

Saturn’s orange moon Titan has hundreds of times more liquid hydrocarbons than all the known oil and natural gas reserves on Earth, according to new Cassini data. The hydrocarbons rain from the sky, collecting in vast deposits that form lakes and dunes.

Link to article.

”

“We're saved!”

“Well how'd the dinosaurs get up there on Titan to form all that oil?”

“I read in the paper last week that they discovered a huge natural gas field under PA. and part of N.Y. They said it's 6,000 feet below the surface and contains trillions of cubic feet of natural gas. Drilling companies have started buying leases on private land to get to it. They said with it being that deep, it's expensive to extract it.”

“The company I work for is drilling gas wells in Wyoming to depths greater than 14,000 feet at a completed cost of close to $7,000,000 each.

We directionally drill as many as 8 wells per pad to different bottom hole locations. This lessens the impact to the surface.

6000 feet straight down would be a piece of cake.”

“I'm working on some samples from a well that are from over 30,000 true vertical depth.

Drilling in the NE is pretty tough, lots of chert and metamorphics to drill through. A 6000 foot well around here take less than a week to drill, up there probably closer to a month.”

“Biofuels are partially to blame for the rising cost of wheat and now there's even talk of shortages. Expect to pay more for bread, pizza, cereals and anything else that involves wheat.”

“No worries.

Well positioned peoples will get through this, that, and every thing else Capitalist Pig Dog has to offer.”

“You are not even considering the secondary effects, RichB.

Anyone been watching the price of corn?

Almost all beef, pork and poultry prices will rise. Rising fuel will compound costs of grain leading to a corresponding further increase in secondary products.

Eggs, milk and other staples will continue rise in price. It is a shame so many farmers went broke over the last 20 years. The ones that are left might actually begin to earn what they are worth.

”

“chili -- ADM is the problem. 21c. oil sheiks.

Switchgrass!”

“I heard on the news tonight that farmers are doing better than they have been in years.

I read this in US news and World report.
"The domestic wheat harvest is down about a third from its 1981 peak, as growers have moved to other crops with higher yields. That's recently been exacerbated by government subsidies for corn-based ethanol.

"We've placed so much demand on � feed grain to turn into fuel, we can't play catch-up quite as fast globally," says Joe Victor, vice president of Allendale, a commodity research advisory firm."”

“There will be a domestic energy gap.

Come over here for mine and I'll blast yo ass.”

“What was that air line tax and gasoline tax that Ross Perot talked about or was he the guy that mentioned the sucking sound from the south? Fifteen years latter and look what you got.”

“Switchgrass is good Q, but the problem is getting it to the production facility. You just can't ship it like corn.”

“No need to ship. Produce and refine on site. Set up a little corner station set up.

However, ADM will push y'all out.

The best way to say money on gasoline prices is bust the speculators on Wall Street that drive up the price.

We have the CEO from Exxon telling the public that oil is trading 40-50 dollars above what it should.

People need to wake up and realize that it's not China, or India that's screwing us.

Peak oil is a line that K-Street uses to keep the American people duped.

Wake tha phuck up, people.”

“Anyone been watching the price of corn?

It's effecting nearly everything. Did you know we had to import wheat from Russia this year? Farmers were all clamoring to switch to corn. And it turns out that ethanol does more damage to the environment and causes more greenhouse gas than gas from oil.”

“Corn fed venison continues to be purchased for the price of a bullet.”

“Nice shootin', Nimble.”

“LOL...the greatest part is how it is effecting the price of "tortillas" which is the Staple of the Mehican zitizenry!!!!

I think its a giggle that mexico and the Hispanic nations to the South have been playing "Tough" with oil prices...and WE own the CORN and WHEAT.

Not that he has the cojohnes but Bush should approach the sounthern Presidents and mention<"Ya know my people can cut back driving, how are your citizens doing on Cutting back EATING...LOLOLOLOLOL!"

The sad part is if we can cost effectivly make biofuels out of "lawn clippings" THEN we actually solve two problems with on move. The largest part of most landfills is "lawn and yard waste".”

“Yawn and Lard waste? Oughta be some sarcasm in there somewhere. Just not up to it this morning:)”

“Yeah...its a realistic SOLUTION (you know a suggestion for "WE" can solve it) rather than a WHINE about where is MOMMY to clean me up (LOL)”

“You got all that out of me reversing a couple of letters just for giggles?”

“Weigh american and see if our average over weight is comming down?-don't think so, they are like their cars- price means nothing, it's usually borrowed money anyway.”

“Screw all that alt energy bs - the Bakken find has come to the rescue. Woot!”

“As far as the tortilla protests there seemed to be more to the story than just the price of corn due to ethanol production. A recent article said "A combination of tortilla-maker organizations, farming groups and members of the Mexican Congress are clamoring for an investigation into alleged monopolies, commodity speculation and price fixing. It is probable that monopolistic practices played a role in the problem," Eduardo P�rez Mota, head of Mexico's federal competition commission, which investigates anti-trust cases, said in an interview. "In the recent past we have detected collusion on prices by corn buyers and by some tortilla makers."”

“Only XL would find it funny when poor people starve.

What a total douche.”

“�LOL...the greatest part is how it is effecting the price of "tortillas" which is the Staple of the Mehican zitizenry!!!!

I think its a giggle that mexico and the Hispanic nations to the South have been playing "Tough" with oil prices...and WE own the CORN and WHEAT.

Not that he has the cojohnes but Bush should approach the sounthern Presidents and mention<"Ya know my people can cut back driving, how are your citizens doing on Cutting back EATING...LOLOLOLOLOL!"

XL400236
8:41:44 AM
2/25/08

Actually, this is erroneous. First of all the Argentenians have gained a big share of the world corn market. The russians have a huge chunk of the world wheat market.

Every single time we have used food as a weapon (ala 1980 when we enacted embargo's on wheat to...ironically......PROTEST the invasion of Afhanistan) we actually wind up acting as a huge incentive to other countries to increase production.

The end result in the embargo was to hold a double barrel shotgun to the Russians head, pull the trigger, and hit the American Farmer right in the head. We had huge stockpiles of grain, price was so low farmers went bankrupt and nobody in Russia starved to death.

I don't believe for a second we can have a huge impact on any nation by enacting a grain embargo. In WWI, over 65% of Europes agriculture was knocked out in the early months of the war. We still couldn't starve them into submission.”

“It's serious problem down there and they are concerned about malnutrition in children. With the higher prices, it costs a third of a workers wages just to buy tortillas. Poor Mexicans get more than 40 percent of their protein from tortillas and Mexican children have a very low incidence of rickets from eating them. Many poor Mexicans, have been substituting cheap instant noodles, which aren't as nutritious. The sad part is the people caught in the middle of possible corruption and market forces for corn.”

“Our whole economy is based on getting in a car and going somewhere to spend money. Getting on a plane and going somewhere to spend money. The tax laws are written to create an overly mobile consumer economy that can't let the motels at the end of a airline trip go broke. Subsidizing this 'Gotta Go Economy' has 'Gotta Go'.”