France Is Not Our Ally

“France urges Europe to lift outdated arms embargo against China
Updated at 23:01 on October 7, 2004, EST.

PARIS (AP) - France regards a European arms embargo on China as outdated and wants it lifted as soon as possible, President Jacques Chirac said in an interview ahead of his visit Friday to China.


Unbelievable! To all you idiot blissninnies who criticize Bush for not getting our "allies" (France) on board the Iraq War Coalition: look at what France is doing. THEY ARE NOT OUR ALLIES! They are willing to sell China sophisticated military technology for monetary gain. Never mind that China isn't really interested in the materiel itself. Never mind that China only wants the materiel to reverse engineer the technology so they can produce it themselves. Never mind that China's stated ambition is regional hegemony and the forced annexation of Taiwan. FRANCE DOESN'T CARE - IT WANTS ITS GODDAM MONEY!! It makes me sick! They are a bunch of opportunistic scumbags!

And so are all you MORONS who are still stuck in the "france is our ally" past!”

“i agree. we need to just hang with other purely benevolent altruistic nations such as ourselves.”

“Move to France, you un-American scumbag!”

“should i take back the statue of liberty with me?”

“Why is bush letting China become our banker with his borrow and spend economics?
Why would Bush give a communist country that kind economic power over us?”

“Mutt is a fascist. Stay here Sacco. I may not agree with you, but you still have a place in our society, just like Mutt, the ignorant fascist!”

“Yeah, and shove it up Chirac's ass!”

“So when China buys French weapons with the money we are paying them on notes from our debt, generated by Bush's tax-cut and spend and go into debt policies, who will we be pissed at, China or France? Prolly France, because we won't be selling China the guns that eventually will be used against us in the future.”

“Nice red herring. Too bad for you it's not relevant to this issue.”

“BB you forgot the step where we sell the guns to France (so we can pay off our debts) that they sell to China.

Isn't World Economics great.”

“So, folks that are as far to the right from center as Buddha is left are fascist, but he's not socialist?”

“thanks buddha, maybe i'll stay a little while after all.”

“he's not socialist?

No, he's communist. And mentally unbalanced to boot!”

“How could he be communist when he is supporting a political candidate for president? In true communism there is no government, the people rule.”

“Just matching ridiculous hyperbole with ridiculous hyperbole. I expected educated adults to recognize that.”

“zac what are you doing in a fuego thread???

and good luck telling mutt what communism is.

you're wasting your breath there man!”

“I lurk the fuego threads form time to time.”

“So you're a LurkingLurchingZombie?”

““So you're a LurkingLurchingZombie?”
LivingDead
8:29:45 AM
10/08/04
ignore this user

Something like that. lol”

“Be sure to take the republican or fascist quiz on the "Republican Party is a Fascist Party" thread! It's fun!”

“Well, I guess I really didn't expect a substantive response from the blissninny crowd...”

“Mutt has a point. What if France & the EU start to seriously compete with us in the Global Arms Market? This could have devestating economic effects. I say we need to block this or, better yet, start selling China weapons!

"For years, U.S. arms manufacturers have complained that excessively burdensome U.S. export controls and a lengthy licensing process damage their competitiveness on the global arms market. But a recent report by the Congressional Research Service shows that U.S. weapons makers are doing just fine.

According to the report, "Conventional Arms Transfers to Developing Nations 1994-2001," released on August 8th, the United States has had the largest share of both new contracts and deliveries to the world for at least 8 years in a row. In calendar year 2001, U.S. arms manufacturers made new agreements worth $12.1 billion and delivered $9.7 billion worth of arms, capturing 45% of both markets.

The United States' closest competitor, Russia, came in a distant second with $5.8 billion in new contracts and $3.6 billion in arms deliveries. But Russia is not a real rival for U.S. arms makers. Its main clients are China and Iran, off limits to U.S. firms, and former Soviet bloc states in Asia and Africa that cannot afford expensive U.S. weapons systems. India, on the other hand, may be one place where Russian and American firms go to battle over a large market. In September 2001, the U.S. government dropped a ban on arms sales to both India and Pakistan, permitting transfers even during the height of the crisis between these nuclear-armed states. India is a longtime major Russian client.

When making a case to loosen export controls, U.S. weapons makers usually cite intense competition from Western European firms. But this claim is also belied by the CRS figures. New contracts signed by the top four European exporters combined (France, the United Kingdom, Germany, and Italy) only totaled $4.5 billion, and deliveries were only worth $5.1 billion."

http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0810-02.htm”

“Keep insulting everyone, condescend to the board as a whole, and act as full of yourself as ever and then wonder why you get ignored or get the responses you receive. You will never get this simple concept, will you. Now, which predictable comeback are you going to use on me now? The drama queen one? Hey, that would be novel (if you consider novel not having used it in 48 hours). Or will it be the blissninny one? Or the "wise-ass city slicker" approach? Surprise me, genius!”

“Interesting take from Friedman:

The original vision driving the unification of Europe, dating from the
ashes of World War II, was to prevent war from ever again touching the
Old Continent. With first the end of the Cold War, and then the May 1
enlargement into the former Warsaw Pact, this goal was more or less
achieved.

But there always had been a competing, and often complementary, vision
working in parallel.

Up until the Iraq war the European Union was also driven by the
Franco-German idea of a united Europe speaking with a single voice
(that had a noticeable French accent). In Paris, the EU was a platform
from which it could speak to the world -- a tool with which it could
leverage its power on a global scale to directly challenge the United
States' hegemony. In such a vision, a bigger European Union was a goal
in its own right, simply because a bigger EU meant a louder, more
powerful France.

U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's (in)famous "Old Europe" speech
in early 2003 shattered that vision. The French and Germans were of
course appalled, and proceeded to lambaste the United States in
general, Washington's Iraq policy in specific and Rumsfeld in
perpetuity, speaking on behalf of "Europe."

The Franco-German assumption that all of Europe would naturally support
them in their geopolitical view quickly put the rest of the Continent
into an introspective mood. Rumsfeld's speech and Paris' and Berlin's
responses forced the rest of Europe into a position where they had to
choose between falling meekly into line behind the Franco-German axis,
or asserting their sovereignty and rebelling, even if that meant at
least tacitly supporting the coming war in which few wanted any part.

For countries such as Portugal, Spain, the Netherlands, Denmark, the
United Kingdom, Italy, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Hungary, the
Czech Republic, Slovakia and Slovenia -- all of whom had either been
betrayed, at war with or occupied by France or Germany in human memory
-- the decision was a no-brainer.

Within days Europe split along political fault lines that had never
been far below the surface, and the Franco-German vision of Europe
began to slowly sink into oblivion. The death of that vision was
codified in the new EU Constitution, which gives every individual EU
member full veto power over any foreign policy decision.

France is evidently wanting to buddy up with a powerful country to enhance its power and prestige in the world. That it chooses China to accomplish this goal really tells you something about the French and their relationship to the U.S.”

“and then wonder why you get ignored or get the responses you receive

No, I don't "wonder" about it, I know why: willful ignorance and head-in-the-sand syndrome is rampant among the blissninny crowd.”

“Ah, you never disappoint me, my friend! :)”

“Substantive response:

http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame34.html”

“So, Mutt. We, and only we, know what's best for the World? The rest of the World, especialy the first world, should use our past examples in the arms trade for a guide?”

“i think this thread has given me a little epiphany into the psyche of the muttster.

mutt wants the freedom to rip other people's threads, be crude, obnoxious, judgemental, and just a #&%!$ to everyone and anyone at all times.

but then he wants to be treated with respect like the intelligent, observant, clear thinking man he believes he is.


now here comes the epiphany part

this makes sense to me now that his approach to world politics is very similar.
mutt wants the U.S. to be able to do what ever it wants at all times, as it has throughout history, and then only judge every other nation's actions as they relate to the U.S.'s well being.


can anyone else hear me on this?
last edited: 10/08/04 9:51:40 AM”

“You really just now figured that out?

;)”

“can anyone else hear me on this?
SacOSeveredHeads
9:50:51 AM
10/08/04
ignore this user

What?

8D”

“I'm just wondering how the world's greatest, most intelligent, sagacity-enriched, alpha male, geopolitical genius has not been tapped for secretary of state, or even vice president. Or is Mutt really Cheney?”

“Okay, I just figured it out for myself. Shrub couldn't understand all those big words he uses.”

“Preach it Brother SackHead!”

“You really just now figured that out?
;)
Phaedrus

so i'm a little slow alright
it gets a little taxing dragging this sac around”

“Phaedrus' kermit porn kills me everytime! LOL!”

“I thought it fitting.”

“Who's your frogy, who's your frogy.”

“I see you blissninnies still can't handle the fact that you were wrong about Old Europe being our ally. LOL!

Good observation of my personality, sacco, but really I don't care about anyone's opinion of me - I'm greatly respected here because I am an "intelligent, observant, clear thinking man"!”

“I thought it fitting.

Yes, as you had no rebuttal! LOL!

edit: so you have half a chance of understanding me: OWN3D!!!!
last edited: 10/08/04 10:15:39 AM”

“Participation in the international process and a differing opinion on one or two subjects doesn't make them our enemy, dweeblet. Now, if they were funding al-qaeda...

Nevermind.”

“Mutt against the world.

Seems like it's a great opportunity for a reality show!”

“Well if Phaedrus is going to give up talking to the Wall then does the Wall win?”

“Phaedrus is the wall.”

“Dammit, if you people would get with the program, the world's greatest, most intelligent, sagacity-enriched, alpha male, geopolitical genius wouldn't have to strain his arm patting himself on the back!

I hope it heals soon, Mutt.”

“That's the premise around discussion on this board.”

“differing opinion on one or two subjects doesn't make them our enemy

BWAHAHAHA!! Do you *really* want me to pull out all the instances in which our geopolitical position was resisted by France?

Phaedrus, somehow, somewhere, you lost your edge!”

“Okay, how about differing opinions on a slew of subjects doesn't make them our enemy.

If they're participating in the process openly, you can't really call them duplicitous in the matter.

Whatever - you and I disagree completely on engagement of China, anyway.”

“Okay, how about differing opinions on a slew of subjects doesn't make them our enemy.

But that does disqualify them as our ally! LOL! You're getting weaker by the moment, Pahedrus!”