Friday's Presidential Debate

“I just tuned in to hear Kerry saying what he would have done in Iraq. That's pretty easy to say having 20/20, and when you were not in office under that pressure with the knowledge you had at that time. Who cares what he would have done? He can say anything.

What are his plans for the future?”

“Geez, now Kerry is totally bull#&%!$ting outright saying we are in Iraq alone. What a bold faced liar. I don't really even want to hear anymore of what he has to say if he is going to make up lies, obvious ones too.”

“You're the best Lipstick Hiker.

If I were Clinton I'd...I'd...I'd better not say.”

“Did Bush say "internets"???

Has anyone seen Bush's back??”

“Countries Supporting Ops in Iraq

Country
In Iraq In Theater Total Future
United Kingdom 8,361 3,500 12,000 ~10,500
Italy 3,085 84 3,169
South Korea 2,800 2,800 ~ 3,600
Poland ~2,400-2500 ~2,400 1,000-1,500
[0 by end of 2005?]
Ukraine 1,576 1,576 ~1,450
Netherlands 1,345 1,345
Romania 700 700
Japan ~550 ~200 ~750
Denmark 496 496
Bulgaria ~485 ~485
El Salvador 380 380
Hungary 300 300
Australia ~ 250 ~ 600 850 + 50
Mongolia 180 180
Georgia 159 159 ~300 or 980(?)
Azerbaijan 151 151
Portugal 128 128
Latvia 122 122
Czech Republic ~110 ~110 10
Lithuania 105 105
Slovakia 105 105
Albania 70 70 200
Estonia 55 55
Tonga ~45 ~45
Singapore 33 33
Kazakhstan 29 29
Macedonia 28 28
Moldova 12 12
Norway 10 10 0
Thailand 0 0 0
Spain 0 0 0
Honduras 0 0 0
Dominican Republic 0 0 0
Nicaragua 0 0 0
Philippines 0 0 0
New Zealand 0 0 0
Armenia 0 50-60”

“Dance with the Devil, if you were with the "in" group, you would have gotten the e-mail where Bush was doing the moon walk, so he doesn't have to show his back :)”

“Ya, and I can't get on the private trips page either! I'm just uncool! Boo Hoo!”

“Gotcha environmental questions”

“Kerry was pretty wishy washy.

I have never seen a candidate contradict himself like that.”

“Kerry presented himself as a moderate who is tough on defense. Pretty tough to do for someone who is neither. Kerry's record is well documented as liberal and weak on defense.

Will Kerry's song and dance in these final weeks fool the Americans into thinking he has made a magical shift to the right?”

“Bush's deliver was better than Kerry's. Kerry was on the defensive, and at times, stuttering trying to defend himself. All Kerry did was suggest government spending. Guess what, he is going to have to raise taxes on everyone to pay for all his programs.”

“We don't have to guess that Kerry will raise taxes. He said he would.”

“Bush obviously had a nice nap yesterday, though he did show some fatigue near the end (past his bed time). It was a much better performance than last week's melt-down but just looking somewhat human would be an improvement.

President Kerry wiped the floor with him.”

“I hear there's rumors on the Internets that Kerry won again.”

“Don't you get all your news from the internet?”

“I didn't watch the whole thing, but what I saw made me think Bush was about to walk over and beyatch slap Kerry a couple of times. Looked to me like Bush was just barely hanging on to control of his emotions. Makes me wonder how he behaves in meetings with other leaders, domestic and foreign. To me at least, Kerry maintained his composure much better.

All that being said, i comeing to the conclusion that both of these guys are just engaged in one giant grade school type battle of "He Said; He Said" and are both just telling us what they think we want to hear in hopes that they'll get votes.

I'm gonna vote for the libertarian candidate. I think we need to start taking a much more Nationalist view of our country.”

“I thought Kerry won the debate pretty handily, as well, if for no other reason than this: Bush seems to have no sense of accountability whatsoever. He blamed the troop staffing levels on the military generals, blamed the lack of WMD on the CIA, blamed the economy on clinton... When he was asked for three mistakes he had made and what he had done to fix them, he blamed the questioner for asking a loaded question and then refused to answer other than a vague gesture in the direction of some people he had appointed - thereby blaming those unnamed people.

The buck stops on Mars or something, apparently.

I also enjoyed him yelling over the moderator.”

“I tend to agree Phaedrus. I have friends and family members like that. They just can’t accept responsibility (one is a recovering alcoholic). I call it childish. I try to teach my kids that part of being an adult means being able to admit “I screwed up”. I sure expect more from my President.”

“The facts and distortions from last night's debate:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A19161-2004Oct9.html”

“Violin and Phaedrus agree.”

“I found the President to be much more credible and likeable.”

“Accountability is a bacpac hollow buzzword.”

“Bacpac likes Dubya.”

“likeable????

i didn't see anything to like

he was belligerant(excuse spelling please) and yelled not only at the people asking him questions, but also at the moderator. I suppose some might like to see such behavior but I thought it showed him to be small minded and shallow.

I'll agree with Phaedrus about the lack of accepting any accountability as well.”

“I think the President has demonstrated he is accountable, he does not have to demonstrate that he is accountable to Michael Moore's or John Kerry's skewed perspectives.”

“The President got several laughs from the audience. Very likeable.”

“They laughed when he asked if they needed wood. They should take him up on it, since he did have a stake in a timber company just as Kerry said.

BTW, the point of that exchange was that Bush's numbers were skewed on small business, and Kerry was right again. See my link above.”

“I think the President has demonstrated he is accountable, he does not have to demonstrate that he is accountable to Michael Moore's or John Kerry's skewed perspectives.”
bbw
9:32:33 AM
10/09/04

Niether Moore nor Kerry asked the question. The question came from Linda Grabel, an undecideed voter from Missouri.
last edited: 10/09/04 11:40:54 AM”

““I think the President has demonstrated he is accountable, he does not have to demonstrate that he is accountable to Michael Moore's or John Kerry's skewed perspectives.”
bbw
12:32:33 PM
10/09/04

accountable for what? and to whom? in what way has he demonstrated anything except single minded stubborness?

Everything thats pointed out by the press or the public is either justified by some twisted rationalization or blamed on someone else.”

“I was satisfied with the President's answer. He took responsibility for his actions.”

“If one of my mutual funds contains a timber company, I guess I am a small business owner.

That is a pretty big stretch.”

“Yeah, but you'd have been satisfied if the president had crapped his pants, sucked his thumb and tried to beat up audience members, as long as he kept repeating "tax cut" and "national security".”

“That is not true. You are wrong.”

“If one of my mutual funds contains a timber company, I guess I am a small business owner.

That is a pretty big stretch.”

I agree it's a big stretch, and it's basically what Bush is asking you to believe by stating that 900,000 small business owners would be affected by Kerry's tax increases on the wealthiest 1%.

BTW, you wouldn't be counted unless you got a dividend check from that stock, so a mutual fund would probably not count.”

““That is not true. You are wrong.”


Sarcasm. Learn it.”

“I do get dividends from my mutal funds.”

“Bush got a laugh when he scoffed at Kerry's contention that he had received $84 from "a timber company." Said Bush, "I own a timber company? That's news to me."

In fact, according to his 2003 financial disclosure form, Bush does own part interest in "LSTF, LLC", a limited-liability company organized "for the purpose of the production of trees for commercial sales." (See "supporting documents" at right.)

So Bush was wrong to suggest that he doesn't have ownership of a timber company. And Kerry was correct in saying that Bush's definition of "small business" is so broad that Bush himself would have qualified as a "small business" in 2001 by virtue of the $84 in business income.
http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx@docID=275.html
last edited: 10/09/04 11:51:09 AM”

“Nice distortion of the facts Phaedrus. Kerry would be proud. You might want to include the rest of the article.

***********

We should clarify: the $84 in Schedule C income was from Bush's Lone Star Trust, which is actually described on the 2001 income-tax returns as an "oil and gas production" business. The Lone Star Trust now owns 50% of the tree-growing company, but didn't get into that business until two years after the $84 in question. So we should have described the $84 as coming from an "oil and gas" business in 2001, and will amend that in our earlier article.”

“Okay... How does THAT change anything? I left it off because it's irrelevent.

It still shows that a limted dividend of $84 would be classified as a small business owner - whatever the industry.

Quit trying to distort the facts.”

“I think Bush presented himself better this time around, but that Kerry still won the debate.”

“Bush did manage to salvage something this time. He was staring into the abyss, otherwise.”

“I thought Bush held his own this time.”

“Yep -- I think he did do better.

(still pretty squirrelly, tho'... LOL)”

“Bush in particular could have reaped some benefit from a more convivial appearance: After being criticized for seeming peevish in last week's foreign policy debate, a new Time magazine poll showed him trailing Kerry on likeability, reversing the president's long-held advantage on that front.


http://www.csmonitor.com/earlyed/early_usa1009.htm”

“I must have went to sleep too early, because this thread exploded with discussion. I get tired of all this political talk sometimes, because there is too much fact checking involved, and I have a slow internet service.
Then no matter what anyone says, there is always another side to the story.

Yeah, the President seemed more confident, but I don't judge him totally by the way he presents himself. He's no Ronald Regan, he's not an actor by past profession, he's a president. He's not a John Edwards or Kerry that give summaries every day in court as lawyers. If Kerry wins a debate by his posture or posturing, what does that really mean? Nothing.”

“Sounds like you know who you'll vote for.”

“Did anyone else notice that he almost said "the hague is a place where our soldiers could be brought to justice"?

Funny!”

“Phaedrus, yeah, I'm voting for Reagan :)”

“Phaedrus, yeah, I'm voting for Reagan :)”