Friday's Presidential Debate

“No federal taxpayer money on abortions, no federal taxpayer money on "faith based initiatives". Thanks, let's keep the hypocritical church and state seperate, just like our founding fathers and mothers suggested.”

“When it comes to pregnancy, most Catholics are hypocrites, because we practice birth control.

One person can have a planned abortion at 4 months and where does the fetus go, into the garbage? Then another woman can have a natural unwanted abortion and have a casket, funeral and buriel stone and site for the unborn child and mourn the death for months and visit the buriel site throughout their life.

What's my point? I'm not sure. To one person, abortion is a convenience, and to another it's a tragedy. So to one person, it was not a child lost, and to another it was. How can it be both?”

“Reformed Lurker, are you saying that the church gave $500,000 to politicians to actually lobby against civil unions? That doesn't sound right if they did. Then they should lobby against divorced people who do not remarry through the church, because they have not gotten their marriages anulled and are also not seen as married in the eyes of the church.

As long as the gay people don't want religious marriages, it shouldn't be their concern. If they want religious marriages, then the church has a right to do what they want and deny them.”

“Just what is that bulge in Bush's back?



AP Photo (via Yahoo! News)
last edited: 10/11/04 9:48:59 AM”

“The Catholic Church is spending money - the most of any group in the state - to support a state constitutional amendment against all gay marriages and civil unions, even those between Jews, Protestants or others. Some are even arguing that the law will ban legal arrangments between heterosexual common-law type couples.

We already ban gay marriage in Michigan. We already can choose to recognize Massachusetts gay marriages or not. The only reason this is on the ballot is to drive conservatives to the polls in hopes that they'll vote for Bush on the same trip.

The Catholic Church has argued for the past several decades that God makes people gay. They just can't practice it and be good Catholics.

Now, I don't have a problem, legally, with the church making this church policy. What I don't like is the fact that the church is being played by Bush. Or worse, that the church is finding an underhanded way to endorse Bush without having to say so.”

“Who are "the gay people"???????”

“....and were the "citizens" asking questions from cards?”

“The Catholic Church has argued for the past several decades that God makes people gay. They just can't practice it and be good Catholics.


Holy crap, so even though God made them gay, the Catholic Church is throwing them out the window?

Bush is a passionate man. Some see his demeanor as devensive. I'd rather have a passionate man in office than someone who can't decide how he feels about somehting.”

“But, if he's passionate about the wrong things, maybe that passion could be an obstacle to objectivity...”

“Getting all pissy
In a painstaking recap of the second presidential debate, the audience comes out ahead.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
By Joyce McGreevy



Oct. 9, 2004 | 9 p.m. Incumbent George W. Bush, Sen. John Kerry enter, exchange greetings. Lip-reading shows Kerry is saying: "Quest-que c'est le bushisme du jour?" Bush fires back: "I'll look taller after PhotoShop, Kerr-bear." Rumors of a bulge exaggerated. Debate reveals there is nothing to presidential package.

Woman asks Kerry if people are right to call him "wishy-washy." No, says Kerry. It's just that Bush's wishful thinking on WMD led to character attacks that don't wash. Addresses poor domestic record, declares Bush first president in 72 years to lose jobs. Bush pounces: Fuzzy math! Everybody knows I am only 58 and a half years old! Makes quippings of mastication. Insists tax cuts were aimed right up the middle class. Pained looks on Missourians, general shifting in seats confirm they took it up the class, all right.

9:15 p.m. Woman asks Bush if unjustified invasion of Iraq could possibly be justified, since justification proved not to be justified. Bush expresses bitter unhappiness that weapons capable of destroying large numbers of people did not exist. He then proves that not all U.S. manufacturing has declined when he gives a Carol Merrill wave at the latest excuse to roll off the White House assembly line -- Saddam Hussein was a rambler and a gambler. Bush struts. Damn system gamer! Oddly, he does not mention others involved in this corruption. So no word yet if, when airstrike will be launched against U.S. oil companies.

Man asks if Kerry would use Bush plan in Iraq. Kerry quotes senior Republicans calling the plan "incompetent," "beyond pitiful," "beyond embarrassing," "in the zone of dangerous." (So is that a yes or a no?) Bush spits out front teeth. Says the crappy plan is working so well he's going to toss an additional $7 billion on it. Kerry suggests going after Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan might have been a good idea. Bush says we're working on it, hard work, working hard, firm resolve, on the hunt, you do the hokeypokey and you turn yourself around, that's what it's all about.

Woman tells Bush, speaking of getting all pissy, my mother and sister caught holy crap during their overseas summer vacation because YOU just had to invade Iraq. Bush jeers, Well, I hate that poncho, so now we're even. Adds: Don't worry, they're just a bunch of dumb foreigners who don't understand my plan. Kerry says there is no plan. Bush says, 'member I was sittin' in the office, the oval one, lookin' at generals? Well, then I went down to the basement, where there was more generals, and I looked at every darn one of 'em. That's what a president does.

9:30 p.m. Woman mentions casually that Iran sponsors terrorism, has long-range missiles, will soon have nuclear weapons -- could this be a problem? Bush looks surprised. Iran? Is that a swing state? Kerry sees Iran, raises one North Korea, and ups the ante with Russia. Makes the case that nuclear weapons buildup plus Bush's inattention does not add up to safer world. Bush yells at audience to simmer down now.

Man asks Bush about the draft. Between convulsions, Bush distracts draft-age demographic by revealing the existence of a second Internet. Kerry says that using stop-loss policies to keep people from getting out of military service amounts to a back-door draft. Bush jumps off stool, barking and grinding his teeth. Moderator tries to pet him, sustains lacerations. Bush snarls: Tell that to the Italian guy and the Brits. Hey, we've got 30 countries helpin' us out. Kerry says: You forgot Poland. Smoke coming out of Bush's ears spells out these words: "Poland can kiss my grand coalition."

Woman says to Kerry, So far so good, we haven't been horrendously attacked again lately. Any thoughts? Kerry claims adequate homeland security could come in handy. Bush says he doubled, tripled the funding. Except that he did neither. It's what you call PATRIOTIC license. Snaps: "I'm worried. I'm worried. I'm worried about our country." Figures that oughta do it. Sheesh, nosy broad.

9:45 p.m. Man asks Bush why he blocked importation of cheaper drugs from Canada. Bush explodes: You can't handle the drugs! Anyway, I didn't, not yet, and when I do it'll be to keep you safe. Drugs'll kill you, man. Sorry about the Parkinson's. (Wuss.) Kerry says that Bush took $139 billion from Americans and gave it to drug companies. Bush says, Well, you could've done something for Medicare in the Senate if you love sick people so much. Kerry says: We did. Cites 1997 legislation and says, Oh, by the way, we balanced the budget, too.

Woman asks Kerry, So what's with the trial lawyer V.P.? Kerry invites her to download and review voluminous PDF detailing in-depth plan for tort reform. Kerry then gets real. Points out that litigation accounts for less than 1 percent of the total healthcare cost. Notes that premiums in Missouri have gone up 64 percent. Offers affordable premiums instead, and tax cut for 98 percent of Americans. Bush falls off stool, calls Kerry the K-word: Kennedy. Then the L-word. Then the -- demands that Charlie Gibson tell him what letter comes next. Kerry says, M, as in, What do you mean kicking 500,000 kids out of after-school programs, cutting 365,000 kids from healthcare and running up the biggest deficits in American history? Bush stomps feet, says: You're not the boss of me.

Man asks Bush, If you're such a Republican, why haven't you vetoed a single spending bill? After the first sucker punch, Bush explains that when you turn a $5.6 trillion surplus into a $2.6 trillion deficit, the fiscally responsible thing to do is to blame everybody else and keep running up the tab. Furious that no one appreciates the shallowness of his recession.

10 p.m. Guy dares Kerry to look into the camera and tell Americans that in his first term he won't raise tax burdens on families making less than $200,000. Kerry looks into the camera and tells Americans that in his first term he won't raise tax burdens on families making less than $200,000. Highlights the $1,000 child-care credit and $4,000 college credit. Bush asks Gibson: Is my time up yet? Look on some Missourian faces says: "24 days."

Man asks Bush to rate himself as an environmentalist. Over howls of laughter, Bush bellows, "Off-road diesel! Hydrogen autos!" Kerry calls Bush's environmental policy "Orwellian." Bush fumes -- so what if he is oil wellian? Bush retorts: "I guess you'd say I'm a good steward of the land." Nobody says it. Guess not.

Woman asks Kerry how Americans can stay competitive in manufacturing and earn a living? Kerry suggests that not making it lucrative for companies to give all our jobs away might help. Bush is suddenly eager to talk about health insurance. Promises voters a "catastrophic plan" and says that, whatever it is, it's sure different from saying, "OK, let me incent you." Says he met a feller named Grant who's created actual jobs. No, really. He's not making it up.

10:15 p.m. Man comments on expansion of the PATRIOT Act, asks Bush why his rights are being watered down. Bush says they aren't. Not at all. Don't be such a baby. Shut up. We can have you arrested for wearing the wrong T-shirt and you want to get all up in my ass about the PATRIOT Act?

Woman asks Kerry, Why use embryonic stem cells? Kerry says not letting people die could be a viable way to show respect for life. Bush says, I can say the word "ethical" more times than he can say it. And I'm louder.

Speaking of vacancy, a man wants to know how Bush would fill one on the Supreme Court. Bush says he's not tellin', then recounts mangled version of the Dred Scott decision. Kerry fast-forwards from 1850s to 2000, when Bush declared, "What we need are some good conservative judges on the courts." Oh, yeah, that, says Bush.

10:30 p.m. Woman asks Kerry what he would say to a voter who believes abortion is murder. Seems to be, um, asking for a friend. Georg -- Georgia, uh, Bosh. Yeah, that's it. Kerry affirms his faith, then mentions a once popular concept -- the separation of church and state. Bush says he doesn't get it. Chews on Charlie Gibson's leg.

Bush accuses Gibson of putting "a head fake on us." Woman asks Bush for three examples of mistakes he made and how he fixed them. Bush grinds her bones to make his bread, then says, 1) History will look back at me; 2) I am responsible; and 3) I didn't make any mistakes except for some appointments of people who quit and then went on "The Daily Show" with their damn books. Kerry helps Bush recall other mistakes. Bush does not seem grateful.

Kerry, in closing, says that America's best days are ahead of us. Bush yells: "Are not." Hollers that we're safer but not safe. Screams a reminder at everybody watching in Afghanistan: Don't forget to vote tomorrow. For all you Afghan gals, remember to ask your husband for permission. (If you get beaten, find other ways to enjoy being free.) God bless America. And dammit, the next time, someone's in for a world of hurt.

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About the writer
Joyce McGreevy is a writer in Portland, Ore.”

“so.............they didn't read from cards?”

“I know this is difficult for most on these political threads but a yes or no is all I request.
last edited: 10/11/04 1:45:09 PM”

“BM- They read from cards, yes, or most of them did (I remember at least one lady who didn't read from a card). THey had to submit their questions prior to the debate. Charlie Gibson, the moderator, chose the quesitions himself, and then called on people to ask their questions.

How was that for a yes or no answer? And why do you ask?”

“who supplied the questions to the audience. if they thought up their own question why was it so hard for some of them to read it.
Some of the questions I thought was way over the head of the person asking.”

“That was some funny #&%!$ Geo.”

“I don't know, if I was on live TV, asking the President of the US or a presidential candidate a question, I think I'd be kind of nervous. They also didn't know what order they would be called in, or if they would be called at all, I don't believe.”

“Hey, has anyone been to http://www.whynotvote.com/?”

“It was scripted, that's why!”

““That was some funny #&%!$ Geo.”
VioliN

I didn't see anybody laughing.

Shrub was winking, but nobody was laughing.

Reminded me of "Field of Dreams" ... "Hey, he winked at me!"”

“Riddle me this: What's a scripted debate with no exchange between the "contestants?

Answer: Commercial time and sound bytes.

IMHO, y'all are watching long commercials.”

“SNL's opening skit on the debates was pretty funny.”

“The church receives donations during services, and that money must be going to fund this "no gay civil ceremonies" issue, which is not why people give money. It's for the priests and nuns to live, and to hold church services. That's how I feel anyway.

I'm just glad that when my mom gave me money for the collection plate, I spent it on candy, lol:) I didn't get an allowance, so it was my only chance to buy candy. Then it would have also went to paying court costs for pediphile priests. My money for candy in retrospect was well spent, lol:)

To non catholics, I don't know what goes on during everyone's service, but catholics pass around a collection plate and you put whatever money you want in it to help the church with expenses.”

“So we're having a party at our house tomorrow night (tonight, I guess) and I can't sleep because I'm nursing a back-to-school cold. (thanks, son). Anyway.....


.....Tarabull and I both said we probably wouldn't watch the debate because it would end up piissing us off (f'n politicians) but in the end I watched it anyway. My only takes:

1) both men certainly appear capable of acting as president (those were carefully chosen words, lol)

2) obviously a draw, IMHO. McCain voters will think he won, Obama voters (Keith Olberman) will think Obama won.

3) focus groups of undecided voters are lame and only serve to highlight people who shouldn't be voting, lol. Too emotional!

4) I really dislike our debate system. All show without much substance. I always wondered what it would be like if every candidate had to wear a bag over their head until election time, all debates were on radio only, and after the election we revealed the winner.

So there you go. I think I'm gonna take a fuego break for a while because it's starting to bore me. (SSDD) Obviously I'll be back to laugh at anyone who posts something ridiculous, lol. May all your wildest political dreams come true, ya tools! Later!

”

“As the debate began, I logged on here and was preparing to type thar McCain was blowing it big time. He wasn't defending points Obama raised, and he kept (strangely) making references to his age.

He soon did a 180 as he pointed out how he is known as a maverick against big spending, and Obama was a big spender. I don't feel Obama sucessfully defended himself on that point, he could list nothing he was willing to cut spending on.

When the topic changed to nat. defence, it became a no-contest. Obama clearly showed he was the lesser experienced. He ended up saying he agreed with McCain on points he didn't seem to understand about 7 times.

There won't be many changed minds on this one, but I believe we'll see a TINY bump for McCain due to undecideds. I think this economic situation will have as much of an affect than this particular debate.

One thing that may have been accomplished is McCain may have reassured a handful of the conservatives that he is coming around to conservativism, but just a handful.

I believe the first VP debate will have a greater impact than this debate, as nuts as that may be.”

“To me the debate only proved how badly the two party system is functioning right now. I don't know what the answer is. I know it isn't a third party full of a strange variety of single issue voters, and i know it isn't. I do think McCain truly is in favor of a smaller government but I don't think the republican party has that at its heart anymore.

Obama truly scares me though. His glib manner lets him say anything he wants and then say he didn't say that. The only way to know what he truly stands for his to check his voting record. But even that is suspect in todays politics where a perfectly good bill could have rider amendment that can derail.

The thing that stood out for me that perfectly shows who Obama is when he said that HE WOULD NOT ATTACK PAKISTAN but then said in the next sentence that if he had Osama and his lieutenants in his sights that he would take him out. I said to my wife (who was disgusted by both of them) that he just said he would and he wouldn't attack pakistan. She said "No, he said he would attack Bin ladin". When i told her that teh whole issue was that Bin Ladin was INSIDE Pakistan she said "oh". She wants so badly to vote for him, but she keeps finding herself seriously doubting him. She'll probably end up not voting for president at all.”

“McCain is "absolutely right" - Obama”

“What I found funny was that McCain did not look at Obama when Obama spoke to him. There must be some psychology in that, but I don't know what it is, unless it's McCain's way of concentrating, by not being distracted by looking at him.”

“Thank you hyway for your first sentence. We need, more now than ever to establish a stronger third party.”

“I don’t think the cranky old man act was too impressive.

But it did bring back memories of Will Ferrell as George Bush, rattling off the hard-won pronunciations of foreign leaders’ names…. all that was missing was the vacant smirk at the end.

At one point I thought he was trying to sell me a discount tour of Eastern Europe ….. Cruise the Baltics on 30,000 rubles a day!

”

“Start thinking ONE party system- where do you get the idea of TWO? They each do the same thing- they just use different names for the spending programs. They're two intramural tag teams playing while someone gets another keg.”

“I look at them as book ends - identical in appearance except that one looks at all the information in between from the right and the other looks from the left.”

“I am for smaller federal government. I am not for no government, I just think the States should be responsible for governing. I have been leaning libertarian for a long time, but for now it just has no real unity. Its just more people voting AGAINST something. I am tired of that. I want to vote FOR something”

“Yeah lips, that lack of eye contact was pretty odd. He wouldn't even look at him when they shook hands at the end.”

“With the general lack of respect the Chicago thug shows the war hero, Obama is lucky he doesn't kick his ass, let alone not make eye contact.”

“I think he came across to me as someone trying to contain his temper - the failure to look at Obama was I think an attempt to back down from confrontation.

Overall I think Obama came across as calm and collected, and was at least the match of McCain on foreign policy, which was supposed to be McCain's specialist area.

If I were running the McCain team I'd step back for a couple of days to let things settle and go again. The campaign is all over the place at the moment.”

“If you look at what McCain said he wanted to confront the world.”

“Its just more people voting AGAINST something. I am tired of that. I want to vote FOR something” Hyway

Exactly why I haven't wasted my vote on a dem or rep since 1972.”

“nevertheless, you have still been wasting it?”

“Why McCain was pissed:



Boehner was blunt. The plan Paulson laid out would not win the support of the vast majority of House Republicans. It had been improved on the edges, with an oversight board and caps on the compensation of participating executives. But it had to be changed at the core. He did not mention the insurance alternative, but Democrats did. Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.), chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, pressed Boehner hard, asking him if he really intended to scrap the deal and start again.

No, Boehner replied, he just wanted his members to have a voice. Obama then jumped in to turn the question on his rival: "What do you think of the [insurance] plan, John?" he asked repeatedly. McCain did not answer.

One Republican in the room said it was clear that the Democrats came into the meeting with a "game plan" aimed at forcing McCain to choose between the administration and House Republicans. "They had taken McCain's request for a meeting and trumped it," said this source.

Congressional aides from both parties were standing in the lobby of the West Wing, unaware of the discord inside the Cabinet room, when McCain emerged alone, shook the hands of the Marines at the door and left. The aides were baffled. The plan had been for a bipartisan appearance before the media, featuring McCain, Obama and at least a firm statement in favor of intervention. Now, one of the leading men was gone.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/26/AR2008092603957.html”

“Looks like Grampy's plan to put politics before country by holding up an essential agreement so he could avoid the debate blew up on him and he was angry as hell.

Sucks to be him.”

“I'm not wasting my vote when I can't differenciate the lesser of the two evils by being a desparate calf trying to edge closer to one of the two hammers that will come down.”

“I meant that all votes are wasted. Yours doesn't elect anyone and ours don't elect anyone worth electing”

“Do we really think a third party will be any different? This is what it takes to work the political system in America. Campaigns have been perfected over the years and try to push our buttons - and largely succeed. For any third choice to be successful they'll probably just have to become more effective at playing the same game.”

“McCain flies in to allegedly save the day like freakin' Mighty Mouse, but in actuality helps Boehner stir up a bunch of crap..... through ignorance, it seems.   Then he sits there in the meeting like a bump on a log while all hell breaks loose.

And NOW his shills will credit him for brokering an end to the impasse??


"If there is a deal with the House involved, it's because of John McCain," said the blowjob expert from South Carolina.

”

“There shouldn't be a bill. The American people will get screwed on this one. Anything this big that both sides can agree on this fast has to be packed with goodies for both sides.”

“Trouble is that we're screwed if we do, screwed if they don't.

I'd love to be able to watch some of these CEOs fall, but they'll take most of the American economy via small businesses with them.

As long as this is only the beginning of what they do and not the end it could be a good opportunity to address things.”

“Are you kidding me. My biggest fear is that this is just the beginning”