Deer Hunting

“WW, that pic might be cute...but if someone got between him and his doe....them antlers are lethal.

Just hope those city folks brought up on "Disney films" know that.
last edited: 10/19/04 2:34:08 AM”

“He was traveling with 3 does and a spike.”

“nice shot WW”

“Archery season opened up here in NY last Friday. Since then, I've spent significant portions of 3 days out there, sitting, observing, listening, smelling, touching... taking in the beauty of the land and its' residents. I've seen sunrise and sunset, ominously angry clouds, a rainbow, chipmunk squabbles, grouse displays, ate an apple from a long neglected tree in an abandoned orchard, napped against the base of a sugar maple, and saw things that most people might go a lifetime without ever taking the time to notice. It was time well spent.

Over the course of the past three days, three deer could easily have fallen to my arrows, each presenting an easy shot. All three deer are still out there living and breathing, none the wiser that I, a hunter, was ever in their midst. I could easily have shot, but didn't. The urge just wasn't there with enough intensity. Perhaps I got temporarily soft, got weak. Perhaps that urge may never go beyond the trip point this year... one never knows.

The fact remains, I was out there hunting, with some intentions of effecting a lethal shot on a deer. I make no appologies for that, likewise I make any appolgies for allowing those three deer to walk away from me. Sometimes the only thing that is killed is time. Sometimes something dies.

Tomorrow is another day, another hunt, perhaps one with a different outcome. I won't know till it happens... such is hunting.


Ordin”

“Ordin, That is what I feel hunting is all about.”

“'specially bowhunting IMO. it's been 3 years since i've picked a gun up, and i don't know if i'll ever go gun hunting again.

for anyone who's been gun hunting, i highly recommend trying bowhunting.

it's more peaceful, weather's warmer, deer are relaxed (not running away from all the guns), it's quieter, it's safer and if you're on public land you may just get the whole woods to yourself for once.”

“Ordin - I had a similar experience last year. Deer all over the place and I just couldn't raise the bow. I didn't need the meat and can't justify killing something if I don't need the food. This doesn't make me superior to someone who views it another way, just different is all.”

“do you other guys that bowhunt drop the bows for gun season, or hunt all the way through with your bow?”

“Seasons do not overlap in NJ, except for Winter bow and permit shotgun in January.

I have hunted winter bow but not permit.
Never hunted muzzleloader.”

“I normally hunt on private property (my uncle's land) so I don't see too many other hunters besides the ones in my party. I would like to try muzzleloading some time.”

“In normal years, my brother in law and I would get together at grandma's cabin and spend the first 3 or 4 days of shotgun season hunting together. Grandma's cabin has no electricity, no running water, no phone, no tv, nothing but peace and quiet. Gas fired lanterns provide lighting and a small woodstove warms the place right up.

Some years neither of us would shoot a deer, some years both of us would. Didn't matter much. He, nor I, are much into the numbers game. It's not about the biggest and the mostest.

Those few days are the extent of my gun season.

We won't be going to Grandma's cabin this year. That sucks. An errant, vermin, cousin and his loser buddies have literally displaced us out of the cabin. It's a long story, and involves family, so you probably have a basic idea of how things are.

This year I've discovered a little patch of public woods near my house in which only bowhunting is allowed. That's where I'll be once the lead starts flying, bow in hand.


Ordin”

“I've never really tried to bow hunt. I did have a Bear Mini Magnum growing up. It was a little 30-40# compound that I eventually outgrew and gave to a friend with sons. Then sometime later I was gifted a Horton Hunter crossbow. I just did targets with that. It's a fun shooter.

I presently don't have the time to be as proficient as one needs to be in order to harvest a deer with a bow. And that is why, I'm in a quandary over the humaneness of bowhunting vs. firearm hunting. Most of this stems from a doe I saw some years ago. Someone had tried to take this animal with a crossbow. It musta been a frontal shot because the bolt impacted in the 'armpit' area just left of the 'breadbasket' and skipped down several ribs before entering close to any vital zone. I know all this because I scavenged the hide before the 'green' and the 'yotes got to it. It had laid still for several snowy days before I had a chance to get back to it and when I did the 'yotes had gotten to the tailend and the green was setting up on the underside. The hide is now brain tanned buckskin.

Do you see a humaneness issue in the bow vs. firearm hunt?”

“i see your point rabbit, but i think there are just as many or more cases of poor shots with guns.

there are plenty of gun hunters who will take "pot shots" at running deer 100 yds away.”

“Do you see a humaneness issue in the bow vs. firearm hunt?,

Briar,
No, they do kill differently though.
Gun is primarily by shock, arrow by blood loss.

In both the key is a well placed shot which puts an ethical responsibility on the hunter to practice in order to know what their effective range is. Effective range being that distance at which they ALWAYS hit the target. A deer's heart/lung area is a pretty big target, about the size of an 8.5x 11 sheet of paper, but the key is ALWAYS. Then in the field NEVER taking a shot beyond your effective range.

The other considerations for archery are a razor sharp arrow, arrow weight and distance, and bow weight. Think of cutting yourself with a knife with a sharp blade or a slightly dull blade. Dull blade hurts a lot more and does not cut as deep. A razor cut stings a bit rather than hurting. A good arrow will pass right through with the deer bleeding to death in seconds, a dull arrow will get less penetration slower death and hurt more.

Arrow weight - older aluminium arrows weigh more than the newer carbon ones. But at longer distances when the arrow has slowed down a bit the heavier arrow will carry more inertia and penetrate deeper while the light one will not. More curve in the trajectory but more oomp at longer distances (35 yds).

Bow weight - more is better as long as you are comfortable with the weight, a trade off here with weight and accuracy but a heavier bow can extend your effective range.

Do not want the arrow to be too tired to go through the deer when it gets there.

Gun is the same, a lot more gun needed to deliver knock down shock at longer distances.
Pennsylvania allows handgun hunting. A .357mag is only effective at distances even closer than bow and arrow. The further away the more gun you need, but eventually even a bullet from an elephant gun will slow down to the point it will injure rather than kill.”

“In this day and age there is no reason why anyone should have any question about the killing ability of their firearm. Both rifle and ammunition companies have web-sites; the ballistics and energy deposits of there ammunition can be downloaded.
I take this info. with me when I do my yearly sighting-in, and compare the performance with the factory standards that I have in hand. I'll make the appropriate adjustments right then and continue firing to confirm the results.
A good hunter is precise, potshotters are a bunch of goons that are too ignorant to understand a ballistic table.”

“>>Do you see a humaneness issue in the bow vs. firearm hunt?

Over the years I've shot several animals, both with firearms and bows. In every case, the animals all expired incredibly quickly after the shot. All of the bowhunted animals died as fast as those hit with 12 gauge slugs. That's very much due to the things that I've done. No bowhunting shots farther than 15 yards, no risky shots, no shots at moving or alert animals, always having razor sharp cut-on-impact broadheads, and using arrows of a heavy mass (I add weighting material to the shafts.)

Bilateral pneumothorax, two collapsed lungs, will cause a deer to expire in seconds. You couldn't kill a deer faster in an electric chair.

On those rare occasions that I actually do loose an arrow, I do so knowing that I have done everything I can, made every preparation, every right choice, BEFORE the string slips from my my fingers. All hunters owe that to the animals they persue.

Ordin”

“We have an extra week of primitive weapons' season here after the three week regular season.

I'm not interested in learning how to bow hunt because one simply cannot do (and buy) everything. I have begun to fantsise about an Enfield two or three band rifle musket. It is cap lock and fires a 0,58 cal. Minié bullet.

I googled Parker Hale which made it (from the original Enfield Armory gauges - they claimed it was a continuation, not a replica), but they seem to be under re-organisation. Does anyone know if one can still be found anywhere in North America? Cabela's used to carry them.”

“We actually have a spear season here in Alabama, if you're wantin' to get really primitive...”

“Gremlin,
definitions of primitive weapons vary.
In Pennsylvania Caps are considered new-fangled things. Gotta be flintlock to qualify.

What a blast, incredibly slow lock time, click, wait, bang. Certainly teaches you to follow through.

Cabelas should have a range of muzzleloaders.”

“Nope, it's the Enfield for me.

BTW, the Enfield Amoury in Middlesex, UK was designed and built by Eli Whitney. A lot of people seem to think it was Ford that developped mass production whereas it was Whitney.

Whitney invented 'go-no go' gauges to make parts interchangeable which permitted the development of the assembly line. This was immediately picked up by the Brits and Germans, as well as other 'forward thinking' nations.

Dickens described a visit to the new Colt factory in London, Eng. for The Spectator in 1896.

Did the italics work?

The Haper's Ferry Armoury was built by Whitney first and along with the minié bullet was responsible for the horrendous massacre of the American Civil War. Thanks to mass production countries could arm huge armies and thanks to a rifle musket that could be loaded as quickly as a smooth bore and could kill to 200 m combined with out-dated massed troop tactics the country tore itself to shreds.

I teach in Language Arts that these two inventions, along with photography and the telegraph at around the same period rendered Romanticism obsolete and brought in the era of Realism.

The armies of Napoleon depicted in glorious tableaux were a very different scene when journalists could send back realistic images of Napolon III's butchery at Sédan.”

“Left the house bout 4am.. on the way to work of course.. (It's a haul on Friday mornings.).. Clear skies, beautiful stars.. some moon left out -- but as I made my way down toward the Camden bottoms -- out came the fog.. and stayed with me nearly all the way to Nashville. (That's a good 75 miles for sure.)

Nice nice morning for deer. Thank goodness it was mostly an interstate run -- or I would have been dodging them for sure. I love it when it's cold in the mornings.. and the fog hangs in the air.. Made me long for the woods -- my butt sat up tall in a tree stand, wating for the sun to show it face.

;)”

“I can't get a hunter's license until I take a hunter safety course, all of which have already begun. So, it doesn't look like I'll be doing any deer hunting this season. That's a bummer, but it's a law that I think's a good idea. There'll always be next year.”

“That's to bad Artex.
last edited: 10/22/04 3:48:34 PM”

“Yeah, I was looking forward to it, but oh well. There's always ice fishing this winter and I'm about to move into a place right on a secluded lake.”

“Well, I just sold my slug gun. :( Rem 870 Express (w/ 3 choke tubes, aimpoint scope mount, sling) for $100. Just nowhere round here to hunt. The good news is I'm buying a Playstation 2! The internet just isn't frying my brain fast enough.”

“Tonight when I pulled in my driveway around 8:00 pm as got out of the car I heard a lot noise in the woods very close to me. There was so much noise I thought it had to a bear passing by which is a common sight here. My headlamp just happen to be sitting on the seat of my car so I turned it on and saw two bucks about 15 yards away with antlers locked pushing each other back and forth. They would separate a little do some snorting and then lock antlers and have at it again. I watched this for about 5 minutes before one of them pulled back and began to run with other in hot pursuit.”

“I am going to be Deer hunting this year in Charles Deam Wilderness.Deer slugs are the way to go.


8)”

“Well it wasn't a very productive opening day. I didn't even see a single deer, but it was still great to be out there. I did have a partridge (rough grouse) land about 10 feet from me and walk right past me. I don't think it even knew I was there. Later on I had a coyote come within 70' of me before it picked up my sent and ran away. All in all it was a fun day.”

“Wow. I wonder if I have to go through hunter safety in order to get a license, too. I'll check into it. My Dad said I can use his gun but I have surgery tomorrow, so I had better wait a week before trying to shoot it. I don't want to pull any stitches loose.”

“Isn't that "ruffed" grouse, zac? Too bad you didn't see any deer, but that coyote sighting must've been neat!

Hunter safety is one of those things that if they don't like your attitude, they don't have to pass you.”

“You’re probably right with the name. I normally call them partridge. My only question is who ruffed up the grouse?”

“yeah we do too...LOL”

“Either way, it's a wild chicken.”

“Ruffed Grouse is Pennsylvania's state bird. I bet they are hard to hunt. Whenever I see one it's long gone in seconds.”

“The one I saw, I probably could have clubbed with my rifle. Most of the time I never see them until they take off.”

“Sure it wasn't a spruce grouse? They walk right up to ya.”

“I have a photo of me and a grouse somewhere in Maine in the summer of '80.

The little bugger just hung around our camp so I talked to him.....or her for a while.

The bird had nothing to say.”

“The bird had nothing to say, or no opportunity to say it?

;)”

“Definitely wasn't a spruce grouse, they are confined to a very small area in northern New York near the Canadian border. I was about 100 miles south of where they roam.”

“Artex, isn't your Florida safety course certificate acceptable for Maine. Quebec (all of Canada, I think) and at least New York recognise out-of-state certificates.

Season starts next week-end here. spent yesterday afternoon walking through my area. I kicked up three grouse (the ruff is round their neck) - the first two would have been easy shots, but the third was screened. They'll have to wait another month.”

“It's tough to know just what to feel. At once you want to feel happy. Knowing that all the planning, preparation, target practice, scouting, etc., was for an expressed purpose. A now-fulfilled purpose.

And then there is the incredible sadness, the indescribable sadness. A sadness that will never completely go away. Even as the years have passed, the level of sadness that is associated with every deer I've killed doesn't diminish. Honestly, I don't want the sadness to go away. It solidly and eternally connects me to that animal, and that event, and the actions I took which altered futures. It's a connection, at least for me, is absolutely born of respect. That which isn't respected is quickly forgotten.

Today, I'm at once happy and sad... Today my arrow flew true.


Ordin”

“Happiness is a large gut pile.”

“It's similar to growing your own crops....from a seed to a full grown vegetable...and then it's on your table feeding your family.

Buying it from a grocery is just different. You didn't put the time and effort into it. You appreciate it less.”

“congrats ordin.

finally going out this afternoon. bow season's been open 2 weeks here and this is my first chance to get out there.

g'luck to all this weekend.”

“I sharpened my knif and got my clothes ready yesterday evening. I'll be in the woods before 6 a.m. to-morrow morning.”

“Good luck, grem and sacco!”

“Thanks, BP.

Gilles, who is hunting on a friend's farm and I went over to my best buddy's place and we drove to the front forty to watch the sun set with a bottle of vodka and a couple of beers. I'm hunting in the back, on the other side of the road beginning to-morrow.

A pick-up drives up and out gets a young neighbour whom my buddy taught at the English high school in the other village. We assumed the position - the thousand yard stare over the box of the truck - and then my buddy's brother arrived in his brand new Ford 350 Harley Davidson Special Edition (black, natch) to tell me Steve is hunting at his place that he just bought.

This is the brother that tried to steal the piglet at the county fair after the beer tent closed. It took two years to get the truck and when the dealer found one free, he and my buddy flew to Vancouver (where the brother was working the week before), picked it up and drove it back. He's already outrun the SQ (State Police).

Yup, just another quiet evening in God's Country.”

“Two bucks. One bullet. No problem.

Seems to me that he was over the limit. Will he be arrested?”

“Depends on what the regulations are in Minnesota. The story seems a little far fetched to me. The guy saw 3 bucks within and hour? Around me you're lucky if you see one per season. I think part of this story was made up.”