Deer Hunting

“I've walked up on guys hunting. I just quietly turn and go the other way, as not to mess up their day.”

“One of the hunters had given authorities Vang's "tag number," which identifies deer hunters when they get their licenses. The hunter had written the number down during the confrontation that sparked the shooting.
...huh?

Maybe the laws are different in Wisconsin, but in Maine the tag is part of the license...and usually kept in your pocket, not displayed...”

“twiggy - GET OUT OF MAINE EVER NOW AND THEN!!!!!! LOL
Yes, rules are diff in diff states.”

“If you want to make things really confusing in New York the northern hunting zone you don’t need to display your back tag. In the southern hunting zone you do.”

“I like it here.
so pffffft!

;)”

“yeah I know laws are different in different states...so what are the laws in Wisconsin, Stovey??”

“In New Jersey the tag must be displayed on your back.

Walking up on people hunting is sort of like walking in bear territory, you are safer if they know you are there. Make people noise, talk but not real loud, talk to youself or sing softly.”

“Hee Hee
At least I know better than to assume the laws in my state are the same as the laws in Wisconsin.. ;-)”

“Maybe the laws are different in Wisconsin

what did I assume? Maybe I should have said "I know" or "Are they" instead of "Maybe" ...pfffft!

bite me!”

“Gremlin, are you upset that I posted the story on the gun?

I did so because people were really wondering about it... and the Strib had it.

I discussed this whole sad event with an orange-capped hunter in our office this a.m. I mentioned the Hmong, who are prevalent around here as well. I've been out by myself and hiked among their hunting groups just fine, although, as someone else stated, you always kinda wonder as you walk away from people with guns.

Some Hmong groups have been caught at times totally illegally harvesting game. I always feel bad, because I'm sure they had a hard time catching whatever they could in SE Asia... and they hunted to EAT what they'd catch, not for trophy racks.

Anyhoo... that all said... this guy I was talking with about the tragedy pointed out to me the murderer was ALONE. You usually always see Hmong in hunting parties. So that makes me wonder if he was a Hmong.
last edited: 11/22/04 1:02:29 PM”

“Wisconsin is a blue State isn't it?”

“bite me!”
twigeater
12:38:58 PM
11/22/04

Woo Hoo! Love nibbles on the way! ;-)”

“Hunter describes unusual day in the woods

Dennis Anderson, 
Staff Tribune Staff Writer
November 22, 2004

Nearby hunter describes unusual day in woods
Al Widiker hunts about a quarter-mile from the camp where five people were killed and three were wounded Sunday, and he said that he believes his party was inside its cabin having lunch when the shooting happened.
"Otherwise we would have heard it," Widiker said in a telephone interview Sunday night. "The hunters who were shot own 80 acres next to thousands and thousands of acres of county-owned [public] land."
After finishing lunch, Widiker and his party hunted a parcel of land in a direction opposite that of the neighboring 80 acres. "But it was pretty hard to hunt, because there was a plane flying low over us in the afternoon," he said.
Later, he learned it was a police or sheriff's airplane.
Also while hunting Sunday afternoon, Widiker heard cars on nearby roads repeatedly honking their horns. Friends and relatives of hunters in the woods, he said, were trying to alert them to quit hunting.
"What they understood at that time was that a man wearing camouflage clothing was in the woods, shooting hunters," Widiker said.
As his party departed their hunting area, Widiker said, they were stopped by authorities who checked their car registration and ID. They were then advised to remove their blaze orange clothing before continuing.
Widiker said he was told the suspect had been confronted that morning by one or more of the hunters who were later shot. The suspect was hunting on the 80 acres owned by the men and was told to leave.
Hmong hunters commonly gather to camp and hunt on the public land during the nine-day Wisconsin firearms deer season, Widiker said. The season began Saturday.
Early Sunday evening, officers arrested a 36-year-old St. Paul man, Chai Soua Vang, in connection with the shootings.
"There are square miles and square miles of public land next to that 80 acres," Widiker said. "Why would anyone want to hunt that private land when there was so much public land nearby?"
Widiker's party did not return to its hunting camp on Sunday. They plan to clean out the cabin today and not go back until next season.
"Who wants to be the next guy in a tree stand if someone comes shooting?" he said.”

“From the St. Paul Pioneer Press:

 
R E L A T E D    L I N K S
 •  5 fatally shot in hunting dispute
 •  Collision of cultures
 •  Hunting and land rights
Collision of cultures

Hmong and white hunters have had disputes in the woods.
BY TODD NELSON and ALEX FRIEDRICH
Pioneer Press


Hunting is a tradition many Hmong have continued to pursue since resettling here from Laos, though not always smoothly.

Some Hmong hunters in the Twin Cities say they have been targets of harassment and intimidation. Some of their white counterparts complain that the former refugees, used to unregulated hunting in their homeland, sometimes fail to comply with modern hunting regulations and wildlife management practices.

"A lot of these hunters are people who have a strong tradition in hunting," said Hmong activist Michael Yang of St. Paul, who joined friends looking for deer on his first hunting trip a few weeks ago. "That was one of the bases of survival back in the old days. You go out there in your farm fields and hunt what you need."

Hunters of all kinds expressed shock Sunday at the arrest of Chai Vang of St. Paul in shootings that killed five people and injured three during a dispute over a deer stand in western Wisconsin. The natural resources departments in Minnesota and Wisconsin, home to more than 75,000 Hmong counted in the 2000 census, have both hired Hmong conservation officers to help bridge the gap between Hmong hunting traditions and today's regulations.

Lee Pao Xiong, a Hmong activist from St. Paul, said he stopped hunting on public lands in Minnesota after an incident several years ago in which he and two friends were hunting for squirrels. Two carloads of white hunters suddenly pulled in to the spot where the three were camping and started making harassing comments. Several other Hmong hunters overheard the commotion, and the other hunters left when they realized they were outnumbered.

Michael Yang said he hears Hmong hunters talking of discrimination and taunts from other hunters. Hmong hunters have even been forced to take off their clothes at gunpoint, he said.

"Definitely, there's a lot of friction," Michael Yang said.

Other hunters say they have had problems with Hmong hunters they have encountered.

Maple Grove hunter Sandy Halvorson said some local hunters complain that Hmong hunters have come onto private property to hunt and don't understand property rights and bag limits.

"There's a problem with our system," she said, adding there should perhaps be classes to teach hunting laws and traditions to immigrants trying to obtain a license.

"There is a cultural difference between hunting in other countries and hunting in the United States," she said.

Hunters are protective of their favorite spots, said Dusty Bosteder, a hunter from Birchwood, Wis., near Rice Lake.

"I'm shocked," Bosteder said of the shootings. "Stuff like that doesn't happen in this area." Still, he said, "Around this country, it has always been territorial."”

“Good info posts, lizs. Thanks.”

“CNN just carried the live press conference by the Sawyer County and Barron County sheriffs and the Wisconsin Governor from Hayward. Still lots to sort out about who was shot in what order, but that as of now the scenario is that a member of the property owners' group came on Vang in the tree stand and used his "walkie-talkie" to check with the group at the cabin to see if anyone was supposed to be in it. When told no, he approached the stand and asked Vang to get down. Some others in the landowner party then showed up on ATVs. Vang was now out of the stand and after being told he was on private property (and who knows what else), he turned to walk away, "fiddled" with his gun -- including removing its scope -- and then turned on the group and started firing. The person with the radio called for help and Vang met them with gunfire, too, as they attempted to rescue the wounded. Vang apparently pursued some of them, with the dead suffering multiple wounds. Not clear if anyone in the party returned fire.

The key to catching Vang was that one of the bunch, during the initial confrontation on the ground beneath the stand, had written Vang's backtag number in the dust on an ATV's windshield. That allowed the cops to ID him.

Yes, in Wisconsin, you are required to wear your license "backtag" in clear view on the back of your coat or vest while hunting, same in Michigan.

All this said, it is important to be cautious when challenging anyone with a gun. Better to keep your mouth shut, leave the situation and call the cops.”

“Amen to that Pekka.”

“This all definitely gives me the creeps.

Last year at the Reno Unit of the Richard J. Dorer Memorial State Hardwood Forest in SE Minnesota, gojo and I split up while backpacking.

He headed down off the bluffs to find water in the valley below. I kept on hiking on the old forest road/trail and we were going to meet up at a set campsite.

As I walked along, I had a weird feeling. I was almost upon him... there was a guy in a tree stand, pointed across the trail and toward a private field maybe 30 feet beyond it.

The guy was in camo stuff, so I don't know what he looked like. It wasn't deer season then, although it was close to starting.

I just walked quietly up, feeling like a sitting duck, kind of nodding a hello. He motioned me on by, so I went. Neither of us said a word. Again, I was imagining that gun trained on my back as I walked away.

Sure glad I didn't ask why that stand was trained on private property! Like Pekka said, respect the person with the gun at the time. Ask later.....”

“This story just gets worse.

BTW, my remark about the weapon was not meant to worry Bit or Lisz. You might have noticed I'm a bit of a gun details nut myself. I was just wondering if it was in the right place and if it might offend anyone. Luckily the discussion has remained on an adult level.

It's a horrible story for poeple like muself who hunt and live in a rural area. Hell! it's just horrible for anyone, I guess.

I don't know much about the ethnic element, but this person must be deeply disturbed and for a long time.

Doug”

“More thoughts on this....

It is around Matahari and Snake Eyes' neck of the woods. (It is darn close to where I got my muy expensivo speeding ticket -- which, of course, pales to all this)

Also, Prosecutor has a cabin a bit northeast of where this happened. I think he's out deer hunting with friends in the area, too.”

“Take care.

Doug”

“I have hunted in this area. All of the fellow hunters were just like they are down here in the south. Hunters in the woods can be some of the nicest people you can run into. Something is wrong with this picture. The guy was hunting on private property, he got lost, he was using a SKS which is illegal to hunt with ( if it can hold 10 rounds ), why did the other hunters shoot back?. A experianced hunter would not have chosen this type of rifle to hunt with in the first place. Something is fishy in this hunting story. Unfortantly this is going to give hunters a bad rap.”

“The SKS is legal in my State. I have hunted with one and I know plenty of experienced hunters who hunt with them.”

“Deer hunting gun regulations from Wisconsin DNR:

Firearm and Bow Restrictions:
General Restrictions

It is illegal to:

• hunt with a fully automatic firearm.

• hunt with any means other than a gun discharged from the shoulder or a bow
and arrow. Handguns may be used as described under the “handgun section”
(page 9). Crossbows may be used as described under the “bows, arrows, and
crossbows section” (page 9).

• possess any firearm from 12:00 midnight - 11:59 p.m. on November 19, 2004 unless the firearm is unloaded and enclosed within a carrying case.
Exceptions:
Deer Firearm target shooting at established target ranges, and on private lands by landowners and family members, CWD zones (see page 38), waterfowl hunting during open season, and hunting on licensed bird hunting preserves. Note: An established
target range means an existing location that is set up for target shooting with
firearms as its major purpose.

• shoot a firearm within 100 yards of a building devoted to human occupancy
while on lands you do not own without the permission of the owner or occupant
of that building.

• hunt deer or bear with ammunition loaded with full metal jacket, nonexpanding type bullets.

• possess or control any shotshell loaded with single slug or ball while hunting,
except during the gun season for deer or bear.

• possess while hunting, shotshells loaded with shot larger than No. BB from
June 1 - Nov. 30 (or June 1- Dec. 14 in Zone T and EAB units).
Note: Be sure to check with local authorities for local restrictions before using firearms in urbanized or populated areas.


Rifles:
• Must have an overall 26\" minimum length with 16\" minimum barrel length.

• Are legal for hunting deer in areas not restricted to shotgun, muzzleloaders and
handguns only as indicated by non-shaded areas on map below.

• It is illegal to posses a rifle larger than .22 rimfire during any gun deer season in
shotgun only areas unless it is unloaded and enclosed within a carrying case.

• It is illegal to hunt deer with a .22 or 5mm rimfire rifle or .177 caliber centerfire
rifle.

• Any .22 caliber or larger centerfire rifle is legal to use to hunt deer.


Shotguns:
• Must have an overall 26\" minimum length with 18\" minimum barrel length.

• Rifled shotgun barrels of at least 18” in length are considered to be shotguns for
the purpose of hunting deer if they fire a single projectile and are in the
following gauges: 10, 12, 16, 20 and 28. These are the only legal gauges for
hunting deer.

• It is illegal to hunt deer with a .410 bore shotgun.


Muzzleloaders
• Smoothbore .45 caliber or larger and rifled .40 caliber or larger, discharged
from the shoulder, are legal for deer hunting. During the 10-day muzzleloader
only season (Nov. 29 - Dec. 8), must have a solid threaded breach plug, only
able to be loaded from the muzzle, and may not have telescopic sights (1 power
or less are legal). Note: Inline muzzleloaders are legal to use during the 10-day muzzleloader hunt with black powder or black powder substitute.

• Muzzleloaders may be used in all regular deer season zones and firearm herd control hunts.

• Muzzle-loading handguns .44 caliber and larger with a minimum barrel length
of 7 inches measured from muzzle to breech face, that fire a single projectile
weighing 138 grains or more are legal for deer hunting.


Handguns:
• To be legal for deer, centerfire handguns must use cartridges of .22 caliber or larger and have a 5 1/2 inch minimum barrel, measured from the firing pin to the muzzle with the action closed.

• You must be 18 years old to hunt with or possess a handgun.
Note: Target shooting with handguns by persons under the age of 18 years is
allowed only when supervised by an adult.

• You may not possess a concealed handgun.

• Muzzleloading handguns, see “Muzzleloaders” above.


Bows, arrows, and crossbows:
• Bows must have a draw weight of 30 pounds or greater and metal broadheads
must be at least 7/8 inches wide and kept sharp to hunt deer or bear.

• Bows equiped with a draw-lock type mechanism/device that is capable of
holding the bow at full draw are considered crossbows.

• Crossbows are only allowed for resident hunters 65 yrs of age or older and
disabled hunters with a Class A, B, C, or crossbow permit. The crossbow
(including compound bows equiped with full draw-lock) must have a minimum
draw of 100 pounds, a workable safety, and use minimum 14-inch bolts or
arrows and broadheads. (Requires an archery license).

• You may not possess, while hunting, any crossbow (except as authorized above) or poisoned, drugged or explosive tipped arrow.


Arms transportation:
• All firearms must be unloaded and completely enclosed within carrying cases when in or on any vehicle whether moving or stationary. Bows and crossbows must be unstrung or in a case whenever in or on a vehicle. Some exceptions apply for disabled hunters issued class A or B disabled permits.


Firearms and Bows
• All firearms must be unloaded when in or on any motor driven boat while the
motor is running. All bows/crossbows must be unstrung or enclosed within a
carrying case when in or on any motor driven boat while the motor is running.

Note: Muzzleloaders are considered unloaded if the cap is removed from a
percussion muzzleloader or the flashpan is cleaned of powder on a flintlock
muzzleloader; the ball and powder can remain in the barrel.

Note: A holster is not a legal carrying case for a handgun unless it completely
encloses the handgun, so that no part of the handgun is visible.
last edited: 11/22/04 6:26:13 PM”

“Are they loaded with 10 rounds or more. The SKS itself is legal. Most states allow you to hunt deer with most centerfire cartridges. The problem with the SKS is the clip usually holds more than is allowed for legal hunting. They are a really cheap rifle, they can be bought for about $100 dollars and they don't kick. Thats why some folks use them. They are not as acutate as most hunting rifles. I didn't mean to turn this into a gun thread. I was just saying that it was such a tragic thing to happen. I think when this is all ironed out we will find that the shooter had some real mental problems.”

“Looks like a legal weapon in Wisconsin too.”

“We only have limits on magazine capacity for bird hunting.”

“From the Star Tribune/AP:

Last update: November 22, 2004 at 5:56 PM


No restrictions on semiautomatic SKS rifle
Associated Press
November 23, 2004

MILWAUKEE -- The semiautomatic rifle used in the fatal shooting of five northwestern Wisconsin hunters is becoming increasingly popular with hunters in the Northwoods, a state warden said.

Mike Bartz, the state Department of Natural Resources' warden supervisor for the northern region where Sunday's shootout happened, said the SKS 7.62 mm rifle is legal in Wisconsin, which has no restrictions on it.
``We see more and more of them being used. They're a fairly cheap weapon. They're a Chinese manufacturer,'' Bartz said. ``They fire a cartridge very similar to a .30-30, which is a very common weapon used for deer hunting.''
Sawyer County sheriff's officials said Chai Vang, 36, a hunter from St. Paul, Minn., opened fire on a group of hunters after a dispute over a tree stand on Sunday.
Robert Crotteau, 42; his son Joey, 20; Al Laski, 43; Mark Roidt, 28; and Jessica Willers, 27, were killed. Three others were hospitalized Monday with gunshot wounds.
Bartz said ammunition for the SKS is easily available and the weapons are relatively affordable, which has added to their popularity.
The SKS semiautomatic rifle was first made as a military-style weapon by the Soviet Union, but new ones are typically made in China.
Jose Cruz, a salesman at Badger Guns & Ammo in Milwaukee, said his store sells a lot of the SKS rifles. New ones usually sell for around $200, he said, compared with $500 to $600 for a Winchester bolt-action rifle.
Cruz said the rifle is not great up close but is better than an AK-47 for long ranges.
They are typically sold with a 10-round magazine, but people can buy larger ones at sporting goods stores. Wisconsin has no restriction on magazine capacity.”

“When I first heard the news...I thought of prosecutor.........THAT was scarey!!!!”

“More on the Hmong community. Man, this is so spooky, when I've hiked and mountain biked among Hmong hunting groups before, on at least three occasions, the last time alone!

But, as I said, they've been nice and respectful. And I didn't know they'd taken a lot of crap, although I suppose it's no surprise.

We had a trout stream regulations change around here and one trout guy talked about the "meat eaters" who take tons of trout. It was much later I realized it was a reference to the Hmong.

AN UPDATE:

Minnesota Hmong fear backlash after Wisconsin shooting
Ashley H. Grant,  Associated Press
November 23, 2004 REAX1123

The arrest of a Hmong-American in the shootings of eight hunters in northwest Wisconsin left some Hmong citizens in his hometown fearful of a backlash.
``This is a very tragic event,'' Michael Yang, a Hmong activist, said. ``This hurts all of us.''
In St. Paul, home to more Hmong than any other American city, Sunday's shootings hit hard.
Ying Vang, executive director of the Lao Family Community of Minnesota in St. Paul, said he fielded 35 to 40 calls Monday from Hmong residents who are worried about reaction to the shooting.
``They told me, 'We are here to stay, and when such a tragedy happens, the American citizens look at us differently than they did before,'' Vang said.
Yang said various Hmong groups held an emergency meeting Monday to talk about how to respond. Several Hmong hunters were invited to the meeting, he said, and some told stories about friction with white hunters.
Investigators in Wisconsin said Chai Vang, 36, opened fire on hunters after they told him to leave a deer stand that was on private property. Pressed for a reason for the violence, investigators said they simply didn't know.
``The action makes no sense,'' Sawyer County (Wis.) Sheriff James Meier said.
Ilean Her, director of the St. Paul-based Council on Asian Pacific Minnesotans, said conflicts between white hunters and Hmong hunters aren't new. She recalled an incident about five years ago near Rochester, Minn., when Hmong hunters were involved in a fistfight after crossing onto private land to hunt.
``This doesn't come as that much of a surprise,'' Her said. ``What surprised me was the level of violence involved.''
Her said ``lots of people'' in the Hmong community are empathizing with Vang.
``So many people in the community were like, 'Well, let's try to listen to the story the way that this man is being treated,'' she said. ``Why did he feel like he had to shoot them? ... If it's just one against so many, what did they do to him that made him a threat?''
State Sen. Mee Moua, one of two Hmong legislators in Minnesota, rejected the idea that cultural differences or racism played any role in the shooting.
``He's probably crazy,'' she said.
She acknowledged that Hmong-Americans feel racism on a daily basis, but ``that doesn't mean you kill people.''
``We're all just speculating that may have been a trigger for him,'' Moua said. ``We're all searching for answers. But as we're doing that search, speculation is just speculation.''
Mark Johnson, executive director of the Minnesota Deer Hunters Association, said he hadn't heard of widespread conflict between Hmong hunters and others.
``In this case, you have a private land issue,'' he said. ``I haven't walked in his shoes. My understanding of what he as a Hmong has gone through is nil. I can try to understand, but I don't.''
Johnson said the private land issue, in particular, has been a growing source of conflict as land available for public hunting is lost to development.
He said he's had a couple of meetings with the Hmong community to try to increase understanding on both sides, especially because the Hmong community is probably the biggest minority hunting group in Minnesota.
Minnesota and Wisconsin have large concentrations of Hmong, immigrants from southeast Asia with a long tradition of hunting. Both states have hired conservation officers and others with southeast Asian backgrounds to help educate newcomers on dealing with regulations.
But Vang didn't appear to be a neophyte. He's held hunting licenses in Minnesota since 2000, and had a valid firearms license this year in Wisconsin too. In Minnesota, he also had a deer archery license and small game license, used for hunting pheasant, grouse and squirrel, for instance.
In Minnesota, he was cited once, in 2001, for a fishing violation when he took 93 crappies more than the legal limit.
People who know Vang said he loves to hunt, Her said: ``He is a hunting zealot.''
St. Paul police say they were called to Vang's house twice in the past year on domestic violence calls, but both were resolved without incident and no police reports were filed. He doesn't have a record of criminal history with the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension, either.
When Yang, the Hmong activist, was reached Monday, his cell phone was nearly dead. He said it had been ringing nonstop since Sunday afternoon, with callers concerned about shooting. The groups at the emergency meeting planned to present a unified message at a news conference Tuesday, he said.
``I am fearful of misunderstanding,'' Yang said. ``That's why the group came together. It's how we can help this community, we can reassure the community - the community as a whole. We are part of a single community.''
Le Phan, a Vietnamese American who owns a car repair shop in St. Paul, is familiar with the area of the shootings, about 135 miles northeast of the Twin Cities.
Phan owns a lake cabin not far away near Hayward, Wis., and said he's enjoyed frequent visits there with his wife and four children for the past five years.
Now, Phan said, ``I hesitate to go up there as a minority. I'm a little afraid. I don't want people to see us and isolate us.'”

“Thanks liz, I stand corrected. I just can't imagine hunting with a rifle with no restriction on magazine capacity. I have killed two deer in Wisconsin both with a rifled shotgun. I enjoy hunting there. I have hunted in at least 10 differant states and have never saw anyone with a sks. I own a sks but would not consider hunting with it.”

“Have you hunted Yellow River State Forest in northeast Iowa, where I've had a couple TT trips this year?

One fall I ran into a gal I knew and we were sitting by a campfire, warming up on a Sunday morning. Two hunters from North Carolina came through camp. (I think it was probably bow season, cuz I don't go in gun season). They said they were looking for those trophy deer. :-)”

“Don't know if there is a cultural element in this story, however, no matter what the ethnicity of the person who shot the other hunters, he obviously had some issues--who knows if he had been harrassed by the other hunters? Maybe there was a language barrier? These could have contributed to the sad ending to this story....Obviously we are only looking at the surface elements to the story, so we really can't make an educated judgement... Yes, there are more of the people who were against the guy than the guy himself. It's far easier to place blame on 1 individual, if you have a group of other people.... This is NOT to say that the guy in the tree stand should have killed anyone.... just that until all facts are determined, we cannot properly judge the entire incident....

Like someone else said-- sometimes things are better left up to the authorities to handle, than to confront someone with a gun (and who you have no idea of their mental state.) There is no way I'd confront anyone in a gun, whether I'm in the woods OR on the street! IF there is an incident between a gun and flesh, obviously, the gun will be the prevailer....

Unfortunately, with the way society is today, this incident could have easily happened between ANY hunters, regardless of ethnicity, age, or even gender....”

“Nope I have never hunted in Iowa. I would like to sometime. I mostly hunt bear in Maine, elk in Colorado, deer in Alabama, Tenneessee, and Mississippi, and hogs in texas now.”

“Lizs,
Thanks for the update article-- I see you cross-posted while I was making a response.

From what I know, many of the Hmong families are among the poorest Asian populations in the nation. They are also a fairly recent immigrant population to the U.S. and like many other immigrant populations, they tend to maintain close cultural ties to their roots. This would explain why his neighbors wouldn't necessarily know much about him.

I agree with the spokesperson from the Hmong community. With all cultural ties aside-- he must have had something go wrong inside his head-- normal people do not go around shooting others, with or without reason--there must be a lot more to this incident than meets the eye.”

“Having a ten round capacity is not a real benefit for deer hunting.”

“I really don't see that his being a Hmong makes a bit of difference as to what happened. I s'pose there are crackers out there who will want to make an issue of it. He's just a guy who went off. Could have been any race, religion, ethnic group. Doesn't matter.”

“Another person died. That's six.

Pink, I didn't realize the Hmong hunters would get harassed by other hunters -- whether or not that happened in this case and, no, it's no reason to go nuts. As you said, we don't know all the facts.

I ran into two young Hmong in early October in a state forest unit. I saw the campground area was full of Hmong people. And it was kinda funny.... a woman drove up in her van, a white woman and her daughter.

She asked about some trails, cuz she rode horses and had never been in that forest unit. I said, well, it's some type of small game season and there are a lot of Hmong hunters here, based on campground occupancy.

She said, we've run in to them on horseback rides. "They are the nicest people," she said.

I said, I've run into their hunting parties before, no problem. I said, I know they've gotten busted for over-the-limit and out-of-season hunting... why can't the DNR do classes or something to make them understand the rules?? And I said, who knows the kind of life they lived in SE Asia before coming here... I'm sure they needed all the game they could hunt up.

And so it goes.... one time a guy and I were hiking and it was mid-day. There was a Hmong hunter just laying out on a trail, in a wide open field, asleep. Seemed weird, but maybe that's what they did in the jungles back home.... sleep wherever they were at during the "off" time of day, waiting for more movement closer to day's end.

I also think the fact this guy was alone says something, like maybe he was "out there." Becaues they always seem to have big hunting parties.”

“What a sad story. I feel a mag. capacity law or further firearm restriction is on its way for that state.

If you need more than one shot to take a deer you need more time at the range. You owe it to the deer and to the hunt experience.”

“If you need more than one shot to take a deer you need more time at the range. You owe it to the deer and to the hunt experience.”
Briar Rabbit
9:04:08 AM
11/23/04
ignore this user

Agreed, although I normally have 3 loaded in my riffle incase my first shot ends up not being clean, or if I happen to get lost or hurt and need to signal for help.”

“The 10 round capacity has nothing to do with it.
The availability of a cheap rifle is.
The second consideration is probably familiarity with the firearm, these were probably all over SE Asia where the Hmong come from. This guy probably learned to shoot with this type of firearm.
Third is low recoil, the recoil energy is tapped to eject the empty and reload a new cartridge. Much less felt recoil than a bolt action rifle.

Cheap
familiar
Comfortable

drove the selection of a firearm, the mag capacity is a by-product.”

“I really don't see that his being a Hmong makes a bit of difference as to what happened. I s'pose there are crackers out there who will want to make an issue of it. He's just a guy who went off. Could have been any race, religion, ethnic group. Doesn't matter.

Pig OB-GYN
8:32:25 AM
11/23/04

Why do you suppose the cracker's are making this a racial issue? The term cracker is demeaning and racist. Pot/Kettle”

“What is used to bring down a deer is irrelevent. If you aim at it, pull the trigger and the deer dies, it's a good weapon for hunting. It doesn't matter what other applications the weapon is used for. The Remington 700 is one of the most deadly weapons in the hands of a sniper and it's also one of the best deer guns too.

If it's brown it's down! If it flies it dies! It's all about meat in the freezer!”

“Anybody got a good recipe for cracker?”

“I think manuka hit the nail on the head as far as the selection of the gun.”

“oh yum!
One of my co workers son got a deer and she asked if I wanted some meat. I expected a package of steak or hamburg - just looked in the freezer and there are several packages! mmmmmm...

Now I'm hoping for another friend to get his deer so I can have the heart.”

“Want to send some venison down my way?”

“no deer yet zac? when does the season end in NY?”

“No deer yet. I have to see one before I can shoot one. Regular deer season for northern zone ends Dec. 5 and southern zone ends Dec. 14. I doubt I’ll be doing any southern zone hunting.”

“Deer hunting season is over here and I didn't get my buck.

I read that deer organ meat (heat, liver) is very high in cadmium and other heavy metals.”