is there a chemist in the house?

“does ice melt slower or faster in a sugar water sloution than normal water?

how about water vs. alcohol?

why?”

“No, but I slept at a Holiday Inn last night.”

“Dissolving solids in water always lowers the water's freezing temperature by an amount that's proportional to the density of dissolved particles. If you double the density of particles in water, you double the amount by which the freezing temperature is lowered.

While salt and sugar both dissolve in water and thus both lower its freezing temperature, salt is much more effective than sugar. That's because salt produces far more dissolved particles per pound or per cup than sugar. First, table salt (sodium chloride) is almost 40% more dense than cane sugar (sucrose), so that a cup of salt weighs much more than a cup of cane sugar. Second, a salt molecule (NaCl) weighs only about 8.5% as much as a sucrose molecule (C12H22O11), so there are far more salt molecules in a pound of salt than sugar molecules in a pound of sugar. Finally, when salt dissolves in water, it decomposes into ions: Na+ and Cl-. That decomposition doubles the density of dissolved particles produced when salt dissolves. Sugar molecules remain intact when they dissolve, so there is no doubling effect. Thus salt produces a much higher density of dissolved particles than sugar, whether you compare them cup for cup or pound for pound, and thus lowers water's freezing temperature more effectively. That's why the salt water is so slow to freeze.”

“I'd say it melts slower in sugar water. You can try it for yourself and see. With the sugar saturated in the water, I'd think it would be harder to strip off water molecules from the ice, so that the melting would be slower.

With alcohol, I don't know - but I'd guess it would be slower to melt, aka, dissolve into a different substance for those reasons. Of course, I haven't taken chemistry since 10th grade - so I'll be interested to see how far off I am when someone who knows what they are talking about decides to post.”

“Conversely, I'd say that a water/alcohol or water/sugar combo would be slower to freeze.”

“Ice would melt faster in the alcohol, because every time you took a sip the ice would touch your lips, which are warmer than the temp. of the alcohol or water. This would melt the ice faster than the untouched glass of water.”

“good info SD, but let me rephrase my question.

take a glass of water, a glass of sugarwater, and a glasss of alcohol (all same temp, and volume)

drop an ice cube into each glass.

what order do the ice cubes melt and why?”

“What SD said but I also think the ions NA & Cl have a big thing to do with it too, no?

They help break H2O bonds, forming NaOH and HCl, maybe? H2O disassociation breaks up the crystal lattice formatio, blah, blah, blah.

Only minored in that crap, so I could be off base here and on acid.

LMFAO! What a geeky chemist joke! I kill me!!!!!!!

Gotta go!”

“ROTF at BM..

off base.. and on acid. lol.. cute.”

“BM. You are such a dork. :p

What's sad is that I got the joke.
last edited: 10/21/04 4:01:09 PM”

“bump

good info, but let me rephrase my question.

take a glass of water, a glass of sugarwater, and a glasss of alcohol (all same temp, and volume)

drop an ice cube into each glass.

what order do the ice cubes melt and why?

anybody?”

“I would think that the order would be fastest to slowest:

sugar
water
alcohol

alcohol is the least dense, followed by water and then the sugar. The most dense will tend to sink, so I am guessing that an ice cube would float in the water and the sugar only.

Now, if only I could figure a reason why I think this, I would sound more plausible.”

“LMAO@violin!”

“Johnny was a chemist, but now he is no more,what he thought was H2O, was H2SO4.

Two atoms are walking down the street, one say's to the other, I think I just droped an electron. The other one says, are you sure. The first one says, yea I'm POSITIVE.

HA HA...corny I know :~)”

“What's sad(?) about my joke is I pulled it out of my butt on the spot.

Now for Mr deadhead:

take a glass of water, a glass of sugarwater, and a glasss of alcohol (all same temp, and volume)

drop an ice cube into each glass.

what order do the ice cubes melt and why?

anybody?”SacOSeveredHeads
8:46:10 AM
10/22/04

depends on which ice cube you dropped first.”

“this is, like, the biggest cliffhanger ever!”

“If you'd drink the alcohol, chase it with the water then - only the salt water would remain to have the ice melt .... therefore the ice in the salt water would melt first !”

“The smell of Lyra's sarcasm is strong enough to be transmitted through the net. LOL!”

“heeheeheeheeheeeee! :-D just funnin'. actually, i'm slightly curious to know. slightly.”

“ok, maybe 3rd time's the charm.

let me rephrase my question once again.

take a glass of water, a glass of sugarwater, and a glasss of ethyl alcohol [denatured](all same temp, and volume)

drop same sized ice cubes into each glass at the same time.

what order do the ice cubes melt and why?

anybody with a chemistry background know for sure?

an no, you don't drink the denatured alcohol.”

“If you take a sugar cube tab of acid, it melts in your mouth, then in your brain. I think it melts faster in your mouth, but melts longer in your brain, at least thats what I remember...now mushrooms don't really melt, you gotta chew them. You could of course sautee them in oil or butter and then mix it with brownie mix and make some really good brownies...or you could sautee pot and do the same thing, but the effects wouldn't nearly be as desirable. Hope that helps.”

“Freezing point depression in the presence of dissolved solids or miscible liquid mixtures is a well known physical phenomenon. Its the basis of how road salt works, how salt and ice work in ice cream freezers, and of how antifreeze works in a car (also provides some boiling point elevation). You can look up the equations in your physical chemistry text book.”

“Lol, sacco!

Now when you say "same size" are we talking surface area or volume?

What weighs more, a kilogram of water or a litre?”

“Sacco is not asking what the freezing point is, he's asking which one will make the ice melt faster and why.”

“ok. you guys can breathe now. here's the answer:

ice melts fastest in water.

as the ice melts the new cold water that comes from the ice sinks to the bottom and the warmer water on top continues to surround the ice cube and melt it.

in liquids less dense than water:
the ice cube sinks to the bottom. when the ice melts the new water is also heavier so ice cube becomes surrounded and insulated from the ambient liquid by its cold water.

in liquids more dense than water:
the ice cube floats, and so does the new water coming from the cube so the ice cube is once again insulated by its own cold water.

ta-da. you can all go about your lives once again.

i'd like to send out a thank-you to those of you who actually posted relevant or helpful things.”

“I know I can sleep easier now.”