TMI

“I have been surfing this site for over a week now. It is pretty addictive. Anyway, my husband is a patrol leader for my son's boy scout patrol. They are camping at least once a month, even through the winter. I am trying to figure out what gear they are going to need. In this process, I decided I can't let them have all the fun, so I want to start packing with my husband.

Anyway, they both have packs, hubby has an internal pack that we got at a garage sale for $7.00! Devin's was a bit more, we got him an external Kelty Tioga 5300. It was the only one that went down small enough to fit his 11 year old frame! lol

They have sleeping bags, wool blankets, etc. We are in the market for one or 2 stoves, and a 4 season tent. On to the questions:

1. Do they NEED a 4 season tent, or will a 3 season one work if they take other precautions?

2. Stoves - I am at a loss. We bought a Sterno stove thing from Walmart with the cans of Sterno. This way they have something until I can figure out what we are getting permanently! Obviously we will want something light and efficient. I just have no clue. I am thinking of trying to make one of those cat can stoves.

3. Anyone used the REI Morph tent? It is a convertible tent, and looks great, but I can't find any reviews of it!

4. Light camp food? I am thinking ramen noodles, cup of soups, etc?

5. What about clothing? Layers good?

6. Any web sites that are definitive? Like a backpacking 101!? LOL

7. Anyone know of any trails around NW Missouri?

Ok, I think that is enough for my first post, don't ya think? Anywa, I wanted to say that you all are hilarious, and I can't stop reading!:) Thanks!!

Steph”

“Welcome aboard. You'll find that when you ask specific, direction questions as you've done that folks will jump on them and leave the chatter behind.

1. Not familiar with your area, but probably not. 4 season is really for snow. I'm from Alabama, so take that with a huge grain of salt.

2. Lots of info around. You can buy a pocket rocket for maybe $35. You can get esbit for probably $10. Better yet, turn the scouts onto alcohol stoves and they can make their own. Lots of info on that around. Search this board for pepsi stove. Also, find any post by Stove Stomper, click his profile and you'll hit info overload.

3. Not familiar with it.

4. Tons of noodles options. I usually do boil ad eat, but there are tons of things better than Ramen. Enertia meals are really good. With foil pouch tuna, chicken, and now beef there are lots of options.

5. Lots of layers. I've rarely been under 30* and probably don't need to comment on that.

6. You've found it. Check some of the links at the top of the page. There is one labeled "beginners"

7. n/c”

“PS, if you don't get many results then try a thread with a title similar to, "Newbie needs gear help," or something similar.”

“Thanks dayhiker! I appreciate the help!:)

Steph”

“backpacker.com has some intro level information.

If you live in Missouri and aren't going to any place much colder or any place high altitude (esp. not above tree line), I'd say you could wing it with a good three season tent.

Mac and Cheese is a classic backpacking food. Lipton dinners are cheap and light. Anything that gives you better than 100 calories an ounce is fine, just go through the supermarket shelves and see what looks good. Nuts and peanut butter are very weight efficient.

Layers are deifnitely good, think wicking layer, insulation and wind/rain barrier for starters. Layering glove and head covering is good for winter hiking too (I do some winter hiking in New Hampshire above tree line, and I'll take those 3 layers for hands and head, plus a non-cotton head band in the winter).

I have an MSR Whisperlite Stove which is great, but someone else can let you know of more recent and updated alternatives.”

“Do you have pictures and are you happily married?”

“Picture please, nudity optionable. ;-)

Just kidding. Welcome to the site. After this weekend, we get rid of our Halloween names.
StoveStomper
http://www.datasync.com/~wksmith
for some homemade stoves and potstands.
last edited: 10/29/04 5:50:27 PM”

“Thanks Undead!

As for pics, you can look at my yahoo profile:

http://profiles.yahoo.com/summerlandfarms

And happily married, most of the time!;)

Steph”

“Hi UC.

I do most of my winter hiking in Michigan, so I get plenty of snow and cold. I don't own a four-season tent. The last few times I've gone in winter, I've used either my Cabela's XPG1 (three-season tent)
or the Black Diamond MegaMid (floorless shelter). IMO, the sleeping bag is more important than the shelter. If you'll be above treeline, it's prolly a different story.

2. Alcohol stoves are awesome, but not really too great for cold weather. Same w/ most canister stoves. Esbit or liquid fuel are the way to go for cold temps.

3. No idea about that tent.

4. www.trailfoods.com. One word will sum up the meals there... YUM (oh, and they're light, too)

5. For winter camping, layer for sure. I use a silk-weight base layer, a fleece layer and an outer layer on top. Bottom is the same base layer, a pair of nylon hiking pants and, if needed, an outer layer. Again, that's in MI. I don't know how cold it gets in Missouri. Might not need as much.

6. What dayhiker said.

7. Can't help ya here.
last edited: 10/29/04 5:56:35 PM”

“Hi there!

Gotta give you the old newbie greeting....


Troll!!! :-)

Okay, now that that's out of the way...
:-)

I have an REI half dome +2.. it's really great-- 2 vestibules so easy to get into. not bad in terms of backpacking-- but my hubby & I are are pretty new to Backpacking as well--it isn't the lightest, but much lighter than other tents. Worth the investment AND, some others have packed with it in snow, so I guess it's can be used 4 seasons....

We have a Primus Yellowstone TechnoTrail it's pretty light and we like the fact that it has a switch to light it up really easily! :-) If you use a wind shield with it, make sure the shield doesn't cover the cannister and over heat it.:

http://www.rei.com/product/9610818.htm?vcat=REI_SSHP_CAMPING_TOC



Food:
noodles are good-- the instant Mac & Cheese are nice because they are pre-measured and all you have to do is to boil the noodles and don't need any butter for the sauce. We often pack the foil packs of tuna, shrimp, ham, hamburger, oysters, etc.....that makes things nice and easy.

We've also packed instant mashed potatoes-- add some garlic powder, powdered butter buds, powdered milk, powdered Mac & Cheese sauce (comes in a shaker can), dried mushrooms, dried chives, etc... (you get the idea) and all you add is boiling water and the instant meat/fish packs... :-)

Instant ramen is okay, but if you're at all sensitive to MSG, I'd suggest taking some spices and blending your own mixtures instead of using the spice packs....

Another great thing to add in terms of dried food are "just veggies" or "just fruit" which are dehydrated veggies or fruit. THe veggies make a great addition to noodles and give you a little bit of veggies and fiber so that things aren't so bland... :-)

more, later!”

“Things are usually very slow around here on the weekends. Most are out backpacking and stuff. Try again Monday if you don't get a lot of responses.”

“Welcome and get ready for a ton of opinions.

First off your husband isn't a Patrol Leader that is a youth only position. He would have to be an Assistant Scoutmater asigned to help out you sons Patrol Leader. If indeed your Troop has made an adult a Patrol Leader then that Troop has some serious problems.
In any event I'm being nit-picky ;) and I digress in an unhelpful way but much props to dad and you for helping out. I would have loved more parent help when I was a Scoutmaster.

And ya darn tootin' you should join in the fun!

1. Three season should be fine.

2. Sterno works ok. I used it for many years as a scout. A better option and a really cool meeting project for meeting with the boys is to build alcohol pepsi can stoves like these. http://www.pcthiker.com/pages/gear/overviewpepsiGstove.shtml

3. No idea.

4. Those are good starts but you can eat so much better than that. Pretty much anything you like at home can be made on the trail. There are some really good food threads around here. Maybe some of us can dig one or two up and post the links here.

5. Synthetics only (cotton kills) and yes dress in layers.

6. gorp.com had a pretty good beginners section but I haven't been to that site in years. This site also has a pretty good beginners section.

7. Nope, Florida guy here.

Another great way to learn is go one a TT group trip.

Once again. Welcome.”

“Also this is the gear list I use to hand out to new scouts. Keep in mind we are in florida but much of it should still apply to you. Most important would be the temp ratings mentioned need to go up.

http://www.troop623.com/GearList.htm”

“Have you checked out the beginners section here? Look up top by articles and trail talk.

I like my pocket rocket. Pretty much idiot proof. I also have a Coleman Inyo II tent which is very roomy.


Mine is yellow but it is a few years old.

Of course NO COTTON (sorry cotton socks)! Cotton holds water and weighs a ton and takes forever to dry. Layers are great. What the layers consist of is up to your cold tolerance.

Look up old gear threads and read read read.

I good low cost site that some of us buy from is: http://www.sierratradingpost.com/default.asp?
last edited: 10/29/04 6:18:54 PM”

“Welcome to the board! NW Missouri, eh? My grandma is from Jamesport, in Daviess county.

Can't much to what people have said here, it's all good advice so far. Check out Gorp.com for info on hiking trails.”

“Lots of good info, but for younger Scouts you need to avoid liquid fuel stoves. In some councils they are banned. I highly recommend a canister stove like the pocket rocket.

For a tent consider the REI Half Dome or Quarter Dome. They would be my picks for a good 3 season tent for Scouts right now. For a good solo tent (that could hold two small Scouts in a pinch), the Exponent Inyo 2 mentioned above (formerly the Cobra) is great buy.

The packaged noodles and soups are great. Consider repackaging them into ziploc storage bags.

Layering is definitely the way to go, but takes some experimentation and expense.

Lots of Scouts and Scouters around this site. If you are thinking of going to Philmont, give another shout.”

“So much great info! Thanks everyone! humanpackmule, you are absolutely right, he is an assistant scoutmaster, NOT a patrol leader! Sorry!:)

Steph”

“Hi again Unity,

Clothes:
I agree with everyone about layering--definitely, no cotton--especially on your feet! Make sure you get some good socks-- I have found that wearing a synthetic wicking sock inside a wool sock really works-- we have had very little blistering with that combination. :-P

For you, as a woman--I found pretty in-expensive underwear (bras/panties) at Kohl's or Walmarts-- they carry all-synthetic lightweight underwear--much cheaper than those that can be found at some of the camping gear stores or even the regular department stores. :-) They are pretty light-weight and work well--AND they wash and dry quickly, so you don't have to carry so many sets of underwear... :-D

I usually shop at the "out of season" racks at REI and EMS for good bargains on wicking long underwear, tank tops, etc.... It's well worth the extra expense vs. being cold outside....

For the guys, my hubby's found synthetic shirts and pants at places like walmart, K-mart, Meijer's, etc...but make sure to test them out for breathability beore taking it out on the trail. It's not pleasant to wear a pair of nylon pants that seal in the heat and do not allow moisture to escape....
Again, investing a little extra in the proper long underwear at a camping gear store for your husband and son will be well worth the extra money... :-)

We've found lightweight fleece jackets that have worked pretty well as a warm inner layer... sometimes we'll just bring fleece vests that zip up as well. I'd try experimenting with clothes you own at first to see what you might want to add/subtract to your packs.... (i.e. put on a few layers and then walk or run briskly through your neighborhood-- you will be surprised at how quickly you may heat up once you are moving
around.

I have a little silk jacket that's filled with a synthetic fiber--I got it for $5 on a bargain rack at K-mart, but I love it because it keeps me warm and weighs next to nothing and packs down to a small size.... :-)

Sleeping Bags:
Make sure that your sleeping bags are warm enough--nothing is worse than getting into a bag and shivering throughout the night because your feet, neck arms, etc.. are cold! My hubby and I quickly found out that the lightweight summer sleeping bags we had brought with us to Alaska were of almost no use in the cold temps.... we ended up wearing about 4 layers of clothing (including a fleece!) to bed...and even then, I had to use little handwarmer packs to keep my toes warm.... (even though we had zipped our 2 sleeping bags together to capitalize on body heat!) Luckily, I decided to bring some fleece scraps (sleeping bag sized) from my local fabric store and created mini blankets to put inside our bags-- it really helped keep us a lot warmer than without them...

On another adventure to the Grand Canyon, we quickly discovered that we needed sleeping pads for our sleeping bags (especially when camping on a hard rocky surface--bruises on your hips really make for a sore hip the next day.)

More about tents:
Don't forget to make sure to invest in a ground cloth or "footprint" to go under the tent-- this extra layer will help to keep the bottom of the tent from developing small tears or holes... :-)

Food:
If you have time, try to dehydrate your own foods. I have a great book called "Backpacker Gourmet" and it has some delicious recipes (my favorite is the Canyon Country Chili). I've also made my own jerky and cookies from some of the recipes in there.

For convenience, buy the big 5 lb bags of pre-mixed Trail mix from Costco... We supplement them with other Dried fruits and berries.

We also carry triscuits and squeezable peanut butter, mini carrots and celery sticks.... :-)

Regarding noodles-- we carry Ziploc Freezer bags. We have used: Ramen, Udon, or Rice Vermicelli-- we prefer the Rice vermicelli because it rehydrates better anbd more quickly and isn't fried. (you can get the Udon and Rice Vermicelli noodles at many Chinese or other Asian stores.)

We open the pack of noodles and put them in a pint or quart sized ziploc freezer baggie, along with any of the foil meats/seafood, and the freeze-dried "Just Veggies" and soup mix. We then boil the water and add them to the noodles... that way, once we are done eating, we can just throw the bag away, instead of having to clean a mug or bowl. (of course you have to pack the trash in and out of where you go camping.)

We've also make muffins-- I get foil muffin cups and use the instant bisquick mixes (just add water!) I put the Bisquick mix in a quart ziplock freezer baggie, add the water required. Knead the bag until mixed... cut a hole in the corner and squeeze the mix into the foil muffin cups. I put some water in the bottom of the pot and then place the muffin cups into the water and boil for the required number of minutes, let cook a bit and eat! The biscuits end up being steamed, but still taste delicious! :-)

Instant Quaker Oatmeal is a lightweight breakfast--you don't even need a bowl. Just tear off the top of the envelope, add water, stir, wait a few minutes for the water to absorb and then enjoy! :-) (no fuss, no muss-- no pots to clean!)
I've been told that only the Quaker Oatmeals can stand up to the water without leaking, but you could probably make a test of other "off brands" at home and see if it will work. If you want to make your own instant oatmeal, just use a ziploc freezer baggie instead.. ;-)

Hope this helps you out! :-)”

“Fooey, don't apologize. I screw up my terms all the time.”

“I have a number of books to dehydrate food for the trail. I've posted the list a number of times. Best food.”

“Actually your troop meetings should be structured so that the boys learn all about clothing & layering, how to plan their own menu's, etc. Also, most troops that are active have their own tents, and usually have a gear recommendations list (similar to what HPM posted). That helps a lot whenever you're trying to get the boys all headed the same direction & learning what they need in order to be safe. As an example, we used MSR Whisperlight stoves exclusively the first few years in our troop so that when we wee trying to teach the boys proper care & feeding and saftey-related stove & white gas things, everyone used the same stove... that really helped a lot!

Also, you mentioned that your troop goes "camping" a lot. I don't mean to nitpik, but there is a huge difference between backpacking & camping. Mine was a backpacking troop, and I can tell you that our gear list was substantially different from those of some of our neighboring troops that were also very active, but more geared toward car-camping. Everything from gear selection to menu-planning to you-name-it changes whenever you get your boys ready for "camping" vs. "backpacking".

If yours is a backpacking troop, I have a ton of WORD & EXCEL files I can send you re what we did, our gear lists, menu-planning guides, etc.

We're in Northern CA so did most of our backpacking in the Sierra, sometimes along the coast. Where you go on your trips makes a big difference in planning as well!
last edited: 10/30/04 7:25:28 PM”

“I would love those word and excel files. The boys are starting to backpack more, then after hiking they camp. The troop does have tents available, however they are all 3 season tents, and since my husband and I also want to start backpacking, we want to get him and Devin a good tent that belongs to us, not the troop.

My email is spam.stephenandsteph@earthlink.net.spam

Take out the spam of course!:)
Steph”

“You might look into the Kelty Gunnison 2 for a good sized 2 person tent. I did some research on this a week or two ago and came up with it as a pretty inexpensive, roomy, and not too heavy tent. I think it weighs around 5#. Granted, I'm used to a sub 2# tent, but I was more worried about containing my soon to be 5 year old than weight.”

“1)Likely a 3 season unless you expect to go above treeline in windy weather (Presidentials, Balds of Southern Appalachians, Rockies, Cascades, etc)

2)For winter two words: white gas

3)?

4)Look on sites above, books, other web sites.Takes time and practice.

5)Layers, layers, layers. In winter I'll take up to 5 layers (shirt, pile pullover, windstopper jacket, parka, expedition down jacket), 3 for legs (tights,expedition weight pile side zips, wind pants) hat, balaclava, +/- facemask, poly gloves, expedition weight gloves, Mid weight leather or plastic boots (depending on weather). COTTON=The winter death cloth.

6)Surf the net for sites.

7) Ozarks? Never hiked midwest. Maybe one day.

Do some reading. Any outdoor clubs in your town? Sierra Club?”

“Alrighty. A midwesterner here! So I'll try the question no one has answered yet. :-)

I've never been there, but there is Indian Cave State Park in Nebraska, south of Omaha a ways. That might work.

There are some trails in Oklahoma, I think Elk Lake or something?? Not sure if that's the right name, or where it is.

There are plenty of hikes in Missouri. Here is a place to look:
http://www.fidnet.com/~mcmurfy1/motrails.html

Here is a trail to consider. It's in NE Missouri. I thought it was pretty, although Stikmon and I didn't do the whole thing. It *might* be fairly close:
http://www.fidnet.com/~mcmurfy1/marktwain_trails.html

Or try some of the east-central Missouri trails.

On the opening page to the website it says that Danny McMuphy is also involved in Scouts, so he would probably have quite excellent suggestions if you e-mailed him. I belong to the motrails yahoo group and see a lot of great information passed around.

Hope this helps! I'm in SE MN.”

“That is where they are going for their hike/campout on the 13th of this month! I wish I were going with them, but I have to work, and I also have two other little ones who are not in scouts, so I have to be home overnight with them. Hopefully we will be able to go back as a family soon!:)

Steph”

“Just wanted to say welcome. I see you got lots of great answers.”