Hillary in 2008!

“Well, from what I read, it appears I am a liberal and I am going to burn in hell.

Okay, so I might as well just go get a beer while I am still alive.”

“No, chili, you’re a lawyer. That’s why you’re going to burn in hell.



I have personally felt the loss. My sister was killed by a drunk driver. My brother-in-law ran himself ragged trying to get the guy. He also tried to get the cop who came to the scene. You see, the cop was a drinking buddy of the guy who killed my sister. The cop didn’t run the proper tests on the guy. My brother-in-law hired a private detective. He was able to interview the witnesses who saw this drunk staggering around and throwing empty beer cans into the woods before the cop got there. But he couldn’t compile all the evidence before the trial.

The drunk got off. But my brother-in-law was finally able to see that the cop lost his job.

My brother-in-law let this eat at him for years. It affected his work. It affected his family. This is typical of everything I’ve ever seen about this sort of situation. If you don’t find piece within yourself, thoughts of revenge will never bring you closure.

So I’ve not only seen TV interviews, I’ve experienced this first-hand. I was able to accept what happened, forgave the drunk, and moved on. I believe that this drunk will have to live with my sister’s death for the rest of his life. And I believe that God should judge people, not me. For years I have been at peace in my heart with this. My brother-in-law has not found closure yet. I don’t believe that this drunk’s death would help him.

I would give the drunk another chance. I would never let someone like Charles Manson loose on society. I’m perfectly content to know that he’s safely locked away. And I would feel that way if he had murdered a member of my family.

As far as, “Prisoners get too many privileges for me to be happy with a jail sentence”; how badly do you wish to beat someone, lipstick? Do you have first hand knowledge of what it’s like? I have first-hand knowledge (Oh but excuse me, I’m bragging here. It’s just another passive-aggressive attempt to feel superior). I’m not sure what your idea of “too many privileges” is, but jail is hell. I know, and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone.

I don’t wish the death penalty under any circumstance, for the reasons I’ve mentioned. If just one innocent person dies, it is one too many. Imagine how it would feel if a member of your family were innocent but murdered by the State.



“I have also read the argument that it's more expensive to take someone through the entire death penalty process than to have a life sentence. The legal fees associated with the required appeals process is the trump card on the money argument. Correct?”

I think that’s correct, Day. Our Satan worshipping attorney could probably give us a breakdown. I used to think that we should fix the system by denying some of those appeals. I don’t have near the confidence in our legal system that I used to.”

“arclite, wow! I'm so sorry to hear about the loss of your sister. I do understand about moving on and not letting the situation eat you up. In your case, maybe the drunk driver will be paid back by a jail sentence and having to deal with his own moral issues, which isn't the case with immoral blatant murderers.

Ophra recently had on people, convicts and their victims, that were in a program to meet each other inorder to help the victim get over whatever the crime was and for the convict to realize the impact they had on people they victimized.

I definitely do agree with you about some people not getting closure if the person is put to death, but some people do feel better. I have seen shows where the people watch the person die, and it's still not good enough. The person did not suffer like their relative did and died too quickly.

I did see another show, maybe Dateline, where this kid was racing and killed this guy's wife and child. The man was bent on getting this kid. Even after the accident, the kid was caught racing again. The husband and father saw the kid in court and decided he did not want to ruin the kid's life, and gave him another chance and asked for mercy for him. Then they both traveled around to schools talking about drunk driving.

I lost someone under unusual circumstances, so that is why I feel strongly about giving the person the death penalty instead of the jail sentence he got, but it's a personal decision. I do respect your opinion on why you feel the way you do, and do not disagree that it is good and different way to handle things and better for some people.

In my case, the person is in a Federal prison, and is in with less harmful criminals, and leads a resonably decent life in jail. I say this because I know people that work in state and federal prisons.”

“No, chili, you’re a lawyer. That’s why you’re going to burn in hell. - arclite

Damn arclite, that was cold! ;-)”

“Stick Republican rhetoric back up their ass.”
reformed lurker
9:31:41 AM
11/13/04

We can't use that strategy here in Ohio, it's been deemed illegal.”

“(With all apologies to my friend chili, and one of my best friends who was one of my groomsmen.)

Hey, stove, what's the difference between a catfish and a lawyer?

One's a scum-sucking bottom dweller, and the other's a fish.



"It is a horrible demoralizing thing to be a lawyer. You look for such low motives in everyone and everything."

Katherine T. Hinkson







Lipstick, I understand that some people may believe differently than do I. It was an interesting ethical issue for me. I struggled with my pro death penalty opinion for years before changing it. It’s a personal philosophical decision.


“I know people that work in state and federal prisons.”

That’s a job I wouldn’t wish on anyone. Although most of the guards I knew where reasonably nice. I can’t vouch for what a guard thinks is a “resonably decent life.” I don’t think doing time is a reasonably decent life. You’re liberty is gone. You do what the guards tell you to do. You have no personal space. I wouldn’t feed the food to my dog. You are surrounded by predators in even the “nicest” of jails.

A reasonably decent life to me, would be living homeless. I guess it’s a matter of perspective. But in my personal opinion, after first-hand experience, incarceration is a horrible thing to do to someone. I’ve never seen a person benefit from the experience unless it was in their make-up to begin with. Those who actually change their behavior would probably do so after any tragic and horrible event in their lives. In other words, there are some people who can find lessons anywhere. Referring to jail time as a “reasonably decent life”? I’ll just agree to disagree with that view.



So, what is your ethical opinion of exactly how Hillary should be put to death?”

“arc, I'm sorry for your loss. I'm also intrigued at your 3 incarceration references. The guy that does our IT work spent the night in the B'ham city jail one night years ago. It scared the crap out of him.

What is black and brown and looks great on a lawyer....a doberman.”

“arclite, I understand what you are saying also even if we disagree. Killing someone who may be definitely guilty can go against a person's religion or their personal feeling like in your case and I respect that.

I don't want to go into various reasons for thinking jail is not bad for some people, because I don't want you to think that the person that was responsible for your sister's death was not suffering on some level, which of course he is.

This does not apply to your case, but there are some people I do believe enjoy jail. They can't function in the outside world, so they don't mind being housed and fed, and having a daily routine, but these are really non functional types.

Is that killing Hilary a question for me? I think you mean it for the general tt public, so I didn't answer. Personally, I don't care about her one way or the other, though some people feel there were a lot of people dying around the Clintons when they were in office and attributed it to them.”

“I've known people who couldn't function in "the outside world" lipstick. I'm not sure that they enjoy jail. It's what they know and it's a regimented routine with no real decisions to make.

I’ve heard people complain about prisoners getting TV privileges. You know what’s popular in jail? Wrestling is popular. I suppose if you enjoy wrestling it’s great to have the privilege of watching the majority choice for TV . They didn’t watch much PBS when I was there. If you’re worried about someone enjoying jail, whom you believe shouldn’t be treated very nicely, don’t. Jail ain’t a nice place.

I didn’t know I was being obtuse with my references, Dayhiker. I’ve got no problem discussing most parts of what was my very interesting past. Hey Lipstick, didn’t I tell you I was a reformed bad-boy a few years back? I’ve spent time in jail more than once, and for a bit longer than one night. I was never charged with a felony. If I had, it may have been harder to get my professional license.

People I know, who didn’t know me then and aren’t aware of my past, would probably react to that knowledge with disbelief. I’m not the same person.

Some night, around the campfire, when it’s really dark, I’ll have to tell you about the time that my EX-roommate (who was a convicted murderer) came at me with a big knife when he was angry. LOLOLOLOL That’s a pretty wild story.

Believe me when I tell you that you don’t have to worry about that person having a good time in jail, Lipstick. If he is having a good time, then he’s already living in his own hell.



Awww, you mean you folks don’t think Hillary should get the death penalty? That sounds like an interesting ethical question to debate.

We are so off-subject again.”

“I didn't think you were being obtuse. I was just dancing around the issue, sorta.”

“Que Tina Turner's "Private Dancer"...”

“arclite, wow! I didn't know you were a jailbird. I guess you know best about prison!”

“No, lipstick, I don’t know best. I have friends who have done serious time. They know more than I do. It’s not an education that most people would care to experience. But I do have some first-hand knowledge. As I’ve said, you needn’t worry that someone who’s in jail is having a reasonably decent life by any normal standards. If anything, for the most part, our prison system makes people worse.

I do have a diverse bunch of friends. I still know some ex-cons. The ones I know are now respectable professionals who really wanted to change their lives. They had it in themselves. There’s not much “rehabilitation” going on in our jails. But that’s another discussion.

Lipstick, are you going to start calling me names now? Sheeesh, honesty can be a burden sometimes. I think of myself as a survivor. I survived my own stupidity and live to tell about it. I could tell you some stories. I hope that I eventually get the chance, sweetie.




So what happened to a serious discussion of Hillary Clinton’s policies and the possibility of her nomination?”

“Hillary has policies?

If she is the nominee then the GOP can celebrate 12 years of owning the WH.”

“All the hollywood types are in town for the Clinton Library opening tomorrow. Hillary has not made an appearance yet.”

“Thanks for sharing arc. Not too many people are willing to share their own mistakes as an example of life experience.”

“I'm not sure if talking about killing a US Senator is a great way to stay removed from the criminal justice system, but to each his own, I guess.”

“Thanks Nigal. I really feel good when I think about learning from my own screw ups. I've got nothing to be ashamed of and that feels good too.



OK violin, let's talk about bumping you off. Nobody would arrest me for that. I may even be able to borrow a gun from a cop friend of mine.



Socialized medicine. A Hillary favorite.”

“arclite, why would I start calling you names? Is it because of the jailbird comment? That was just in jest. I keep forgetting to use those smiley faces:)”

“That's America for ya. I'm busting my butt so a guy like arclite can vote, knowing he'll turn around and make a poor decision, that would perpetuate a regime that doesn't want him to vote.”

“I knowed you was funnin’ me, Lipstick. I don’t have thin skin about this subject, otherwise I wouldn’t have felt comfortable bringing it up. I just wanted you to know that I was providing you with some first-hand information.




Buddha, the way I see it, I learn from my mistakes and make better choices now. Some folks don't have that ability. Tell us what that’s like?

I would think that you have a fond place in your heart for lawbreaking thugs considering you root for ohio st.

If you were paying attention during the election process, the Reps didn't mount a concerted effort to stop people from voting third party (and there were third parties that took votes away from them). The Dems did.”

“Big recount in WA for the govenor in my democratic state. The republican is 261 votes ahead, so there will be a recount that will take almost a week. There has not been a republican govenor in 20 years.”

“WASHINGTON (AP) -- Sen. Joseph Biden says any Democrat who wants to run for president in 2008 should keep in mind these three words: Hillary Rodham Clinton.

"I think she'd be incredibly difficult to beat," the Delaware Democrat said Sunday on NBC's "Meet the Press." "I think she is the most difficult obstacle for anyone being the nominee."

The former first lady and Democratic senator from New York insists that she plans to run for re-election in 2006. But speculation persists that she might run for president in 2008.

"She is likely to be the nominee," Biden said. "She'd be the toughest person and I think Hillary Clinton is able to be elected president of the United States."

Biden said he is thinking about running again, 20 years after his first failed bid for the White House because "there's a lot at stake."”

“TOKYO (AP) -- Former President Clinton said Sunday that his wife, Hillary, would be an excellent choice as the first female leader of the world's most powerful nation.

In an interview with Japan's TV Asahi, Clinton said he did not know whether his wife, the senator of New York state, has any plans to one day run for the presidency.

"I don't know if she'll run or not," he told the network, but added, "She would make an excellent president, and I would always try to help her."
[...]
"If she did run and she was able to win, she'd make a very, very good president," Clinton said Sunday. "I think now she's at least as good as I was."
[...]”

“The trouble with political jokes is that too many of them do get elected”

“I predicted that W wouldn't get elected for a second term. (And maybe he didn't with all the electronic voting machines shenanigans.) Therefore I will not make any predictions about a Hillary Clinton presidency.
>
I will say this though. The three reasons she probably won't make the cut are:

1) Gun control
2) Gun control
3) Gun control”

“[...]
The poll found 29 percent were very likely to cast a vote for Hillary Clinton for president and 24 percent said they were somewhat likely.

Seven percent were not very likely and 39 percent said they were not at all likely. The margin of error was plus or minus 5 percentage points.
[...]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/05/26/hillary.clinton/index.html”

“That poll seems to assume that nobody is running against her.”

“He can't. The Constitution limits him to two terms.”

“Lol!”

“

http://billforfirstlady.com/home.php”

“http://www.michaelmoore.com/mustread/index.php?id=519

Saint Cindy thrashing 'War Hawk' Hillary.
Cindy tears into Hillary for Iraq support, compares her to radio's Rush Limbaugh.”

“Why is it that SS is way more concerned about what Cindy Sheehan says than anyone else?”

“Come on, Vile!
You know Saint Cindy must never be questioned!
LOLOLOLOL”

“SS, you ought to love Hillary now since she is being compared to your "Hero" Rush ;)”

“I don't listen to Rush.

You libbies sure do love to stereotype.
last edited: 10/20/05 11:14:24 AM”

“no worse than you”

““Come on, Vile!
You know Saint Cindy must never be questioned!
LOLOLOLOL”
GreasyGrimyGopherGutsStomper

You libbies sure do love to stereotype.
last edited: 10/20/05 11:14:24 AM”
GreasyGrimyGopherGutsStomper

Another case of a tree pissing on a dog?”

“G4S - I think more libbies listen to Rush than we Nazicons.”

“Gotta admit its a lot cuter than Hillary.....good old RED X for PRESIDENT!!!!!”

“Good maybe then we can get a senator that is actually FROM New York.
last edited: 12/07/06 9:13:29 AM”

“Apparently she stays as far FROM New York as Possible (LOL)>”

“It didn't post?”

“I heard a couple of interesting thing on the radio this morning.

Dick Morris was being quoted as saying that if Hillary is elected President, he name will be Hillary Rodmam. Not Hillary Rodham Clinton, not Hillary Clinton, but Hillary Rodham. I find this interesting, but I'm pretty sure I don't care. I'm just passing it on, FWIW.

Item #2: A very conservative local radio guy is predicting that Barack Obama will be the next president. He seemed pretty confident in his prediction.

I gotta quit listening to the radio.”

“I predict that radio guy is wrong. Obama is the Democrat "savior" b/c they can paint them how they want. The more he opens his mouth though the more it is revealed he's clueless.

I predict that a true moderate (either party) will win. The party that has the least influence in the primaries over their base will win.
last edited: 12/07/06 12:12:09 PM”

“Moon, sorry to disagree, but I think the party that sets SOME DIRECTION will win. The Dems have their back to the wall for the next two years. The Republicans have basically been FORD II for the past couple of years....the Dems said they would CHANGE things....so lets see em do it.

I agree Obama is a flash, does anyone thing Hillary will actually let him have a chance in hades?”