Arafat Is Dead, Palestinian Sources Say

“PARIS (Reuters) - Palestinian President Yasser Arafat is dead, senior Palestinian political sources said on Tuesday.



The information from sources close to Arafat could not immediately be confirmed.



"He is dead," a senior political source close to Arafat told Reuters in Paris, where the 75-year-old leader has been lying in a coma at a French military hospital.



Asked to confirm Arafat's death, another official close to the president said: "Yes, he is dead. There will be an announcement soon."



None of the sources gave any details of the cause of death.



Officials in the West Bank said they had not been informed that Arafat was dead.



He had been at the hospital having treatment since Oct. 29.



Palestinian officials had said Arafat was suffering from liver failure and the lower part of his body was not functioning. He had been in a coma and his condition worsened overnight, a hospital spokesman said earlier on Tuesday.”

“Good riddance.”

“I guess the Likudists are glad they didn't kill him and create a martyr.

I hope this all shakes out for the better but things could get messy in the short term.”

“I hate to have to think this about any human being but... One can only hope that it's true.”

“Why, Phaedrus?

I expect things to get uglier now.”

“I would expect that it will get uglier in the short-term, but nothing was going to get solved with Arafat around, At least with new leadership around there will be some chance to work things out.

Not saying a good chance, but a chance is better than no chance.
last edited: 11/09/04 10:17:43 AM”

“There's talk of him having been poisoned by someone close to him.

Who knows if that's true, but it's interesting.”

“I hate to have to think this about any human being but... One can only hope that it's true.”
Bison
11:12:35 AM
11/09/04

You can't really hate saying it.

Short term damage caused by his death? We'll see.

Did Arafat do nothing worthwhile?”

“As of 11:27am via the AP wire the hospital disagrees with that diagnosis.”

“But, his wife continues to deny it. I think she may try carting him around a la "Weekend At Bernie's" for awhile...”

“

Baghdad Traffic Jam
last edited: 11/09/04 10:42:19 AM”

“Now if Israel would ditch Sharon we could get down to bidnis.”

“Maybe we can pray for his death?”

“Did Arafat do nothing worthwhile?”
Bearmagnet
10:31:07 AM
11/09/04

I guess it depends on whether you think it's worthwhile to promote a culture of hate and suicide bombing.”

“But Arafat was exposed to a culture of hate as a child during British rule.

Did the Palestinians not have a reason to rebel?

Are not all sides equally at fault? How about Jewish Terrorist Organizations of the early 1900's (30s-40s?)?”

“Sheesh, BM you'd give anyone a pass just cause Mommy didn't hug 'em enough. :)”

“Using history as an excuse for modern tactics of targeting women and children with suicide attacks is pretty reprehensible.”

“Arafat was then what bin Laden is today. A terrorist! Plain and simple. Only difference is that he didn't attack the U.S. But, a thug is a thug. And a terrorist is a terrorist.
Then, his role started shaping up to be an elder statesman for the Palestinian cause. Much like what bin Laden appears to want to become for the Islamic cause (this has been speculated in recent analyses). He had his chance. He was given a pretty sweet deal in the 90's during Clinton's administration and turned it down...”

“Perhaps he turned it down because his ultimate goal is the destruction of the state of Israel???”

“LOL Nigal. No, that's not what I'm saying.

We might get bogged down in the same old debate, eh?

Has it not been one continuous struggle?

And as for reprehensible acts, HRW has documented these acts on both sides.”

“Arafat first started fighting British Occupation then isreali "occupation", no?”

“I'm getting a banner ad for BBC News that starts with Arabic writing on top of this page.”

“I got a chemotherapy medication ad!”

“Arafat was/is, of course, a terrorist.

But there WILL be a Palestinian state. Israel wants it. The Palestinians want it. The United States wants it. That is the end point of any and every negotiation plan that has been put forward in the past ten years.

Arafat is responsible for that.”

“Arafat had a part of that, RL. He is not solely responsible for it. What he is solely repsonsible for is blowing a good opportunity that was afforded him when he turned down the deal offered to him. I believe a lot of bloodshed may have been avoided. Maybe not. But, I question why he did that. I still think that he, and the other extremists of his kind, were/are still bent on the destruction of Israel...”

“Tree - I think Arafat was having an extremely difficult time keeping his "coalition" together. Earlier on he bowed to terrorist tactics, afraid he would lose too much strength if he oppossed the extremist groups under him.

Not saying it's right but I'm not so sure many other people could do what Arafat has done to bring about a Palestinian State.”

“Maybe I could give the man more credit if he had not turned the deal down. That spoke volumes to me. I am still convinced that if a man will not accept something that gives away just about the whole enchilada, then there is an underlying reason why...”

“What, exactly, did he blow in a strategic sense?

The Israelis would love it if tomorrow there was a workable Palestinian state.

In 50 years, they'll have large population majorities in the region.

The second that the Palestinians decide they really want a state is the second that it exists.

I, personally, think that he should have taken the deal. And he definitely did something that results in more death. But was that the right moment for the Palestinians to get maximum return? Maybe. Maybe not.”

“Then, what exactly IS the right moment? I mean, let's be real. How wishy washy can you be when you are not exactly in the driver's seat? Do you see what I am trying to say?”

“This in no way justifies terror against non-combatants but… the 'state' offered had no control over its own borders or rights to its water. The hard issues of Jerusalem and 'right to return' were left for some other day. If they hadn't gotten a viable state, the state wouldn't live for that other day.”

“I was under the impression that what was offered was more akin to a U.S. Indian Reservation than a real state.”

“Arafat's wife had some complaint. It was on the news, but I missed it. For his wife to talk, maybe he is dead.”

“I found the article about his wife and this is what she said:

You have to realize the size of the conspiracy. I tell you they are trying to bury Abu Ammar alive," she said, using Arafat's nom de guerre. "He is all right and he is going home. God is great."

*On a side note: She lives in France and has not seem her husband since the year 2000.”

“


This is not a 9yr old victim of terrorism. This is a 9yr old victim of "conventional" warfare injured in Fallujah.

Someone please esplain the difference?”

“"Someone please esplain the difference?”

A 9 year old victim of terrorism doesn't know it's coming and is not given a chance to get out first like the 300,000 smart ones did. Of course this is America's fault and has nothing to do with the child's parents not moving him to safety when they were given a chance.

America sucks...”

“I see. All civillians have been given a chance to leave all combat situations? That's very noble of us. I'll have to look into that.

But in the meantime I disagree that this 9yr old saw anything coming or had a decision to make.

I think there is no difference in terrorist civillian victims as oppossed to civillian victims of "conventional" warefare.”

“HRW Search: Civilian casualties, Iraq

Results 1 - 10 of about 363 from www.hrw.org for civilian casualties, Iraq.

Where shall I start?

Result 1:
"Though a complete accounting of civilian casualties may not be possible, some attempts to quantify the dead have been made. The Associated Press canvassed sixty of Iraq’s 124 hospitals immediately after the end of major combat operations and calculated that at least 3,420 civilians died. The Associated Press described the count as “fragmentary” and said, “the complete toll—if it is ever tallied—is sure to be significantly higher.”19 The Los Angeles Times did a survey of twenty-seven hospitals in Baghdad and outlying areas and found that at least 1,700 civilians died and more than 8,000 were injured in the capital.20

Statistics drawn from hospital records indicate that the ground war caused the vast majority of the deaths. More than 400 civilians died in al-Nasiriyya, including at least 72 women and 169 children; more than 700 additional women and children were injured. The preponderance of these casualties was due to small arms fire as the battle raged in a densely populated neighborhood of the city. Baghdad had similarly high casualties from ground fire. In al-Hilla, U.S. ground-launched cluster munitions caused 90 percent of all civilian casualties. These weapons killed large numbers of civilians in Basra and Baghdad as well. While the ground war caused significantly more casualties, the air war, especially failed attacks targeting Iraqi leadership, contributed to the total number of civilian deaths and injuries."

Oooooooooooh! Cluster munitions. Lets check that out!
last edited: 11/09/04 5:43:04 PM”

“

An Iraqi girl sits in the playground of the pockmarked al-Hadaf primary school in al-Hilla. U.S. cluster bomblets killed two civilians and injured thirteen when they hit the school on April 24, 2003. © 2003 Marc Garlasco / Human Rights Watch

Of course, I'm sure the school was told they better vacate, eh?”

“Ok, my only question is how did Israel gain legitimacy? History shows that the UN will listen to, and side, with a member nation when disputes such as this arise (ie, Tibet). So, when Arab nations that were members of the UN balked at the concept of the modern state of Israel why were they ignored? Israel didn't have a voice to object. Arabs then got fed up and took up arms to fight what they feel is an infringement on their freedom. Now, we fought a revolution with an equal, if not greater, amount of dissidence towards England. I hardly feel US citizens are in the position to judge arafat.”

““I see. All civillians have been given a chance to leave all combat situations? That's very noble of us. I'll have to look into that.


Nice try BearMag but it didn’t work. Here is what you wrote…

“This is not a 9yr old victim of terrorism. This is a 9yr old victim of "conventional" warfare injured in Fallujah.”

“IN FALLUJAH”. You attempt to twist what I wrote to say ALL civies in ALL combat. I never said this.

You ignorant slut…:)”

“...maybe that kid threw a rock at a tank or humvee?”

“Nigal - you tried to deflect a civillian casualty by stating they had a chance to move out before the fighting started.

My point was that it's irrelevent that people had this chance in A battle.

BTW - can you back up that claim?

People tend to highlite civillian casualties with terrorist acts and rightfully so, civillian terrorist casualties is pretty redundent. However, people tend to ignore and/or deflate civilian casualties of "legitimate" warfare.

Out of sight out of mind?”

““Nigal - you tried to deflect a civillian casualty by stating they had a chance to move out before the fighting started.”

No, I wasn’t deflecting anything. I was trying to show that sometimes, just sometimes, it’s not all our fault. I know, I know. It’s the sheik thing to make us out to be more evil than the terrorists but sometimes things happen that are beyond our control.

“My point was that it's irrelevent that people had this chance in A battle.”

Irrelevant? When a city of some 300,000 is given the chance to leave for a while and live or they can choose to stay and take their chances, I’d call that VERY relevant.

“BTW - can you back up that claim?”

I saw it on the CBS news. Do you really think that we wouldn’t give civies the chance to leave before going in? Take it or leave it.

“People tend to highlite civillian casualties with terrorist acts and rightfully so, civillian terrorist casualties is pretty redundent. However, people tend to ignore and/or deflate civilian casualties of "legitimate" warfare.

Out of sight out of mind?”

We might want to take into account one of the terrorist’s favorite defenses…embedding themselves in civilian populations.

OK, sense we never resolve anything with the constant repeating of views and we rarely agree on anything continuing this is worthless. So I yield the floor to you for your final comments…”

“LOL!

Not trying to make us out to be more evil

Watched Network news this morning on the battle of Fallujah and our fight agains "terrorists" in that city.

Media bias/kowtowing drives me crazy.”

“Well, I guess that ends this thread. I feel kind of bad for the guy. Now if GW would just choke on a pretzel.”

“well Mr. Arafat has passed away..”

“yeah, they broke into whatever my wife was watching and she started raving like a lunatic. I guess CSI was more important than global affairs. Go figure.”

“CSI IS more important than Arafart. I was pissed FOX broke in on the Factor though.”