Forgiveness

“Like love, its something we need to get and give. Maybe we can share some thoughts on this theme...

"Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespassed against us."”

“"Here's to the few who forgive what you do and the fewer who don't even care."
Leonard Cohen".”

“Song Of Bernadette
“There was a child named Bernadette
I heard the story long ago
She saw the Queen of Heaven once
And kept the vision in her soul
No one believed what she had seen
No one believed what she heard
But there were sorrows to be healed
And mercy, mercy in this world

So many hearts I find, broke like yours and mine
Torn by what we've done and can't undo
I just wanna hold you, come on let me hold you
Like Bernadette would do

We've been around, we fall, we fly
We mostly fall, we mostly run
And every now and then we try
To mend the damage that we've done
Tonight, tonight I just can't rest
I've got this joy inside my breast
To think that I did not forget that child
That song of Bernadette

So many hearts I find, broke like yours and mine
Torn by what we've done and can't undo
I just wanna hold you, won't let me hold you
Like Bernadette would do
I just wanna hold you, come on let me hold you
Like Bernadette would do

(The words cannot do justice to the song, sung by Jennefir Warnes and written by Leonard Cohen, Jennifer Warnes, Bill Elliott)””

“So ped. Here are my thoughts.


Why the F did you do????? It must have been huge!!!!!!! And be preying on you!”

“You are always the voice of reason, Ped. One of the things I like about you! I hereby forgive Mutt for all the stupid, insensitive comments and for calling me fat at the close of every debate! You can come back now, if you like!!! :)

Oh, and I won't call him a stupid redneck anymore...”

“aha! here is my answer:

EBA - NOT!

Sad how all this turned out. I can tell there is a lot I don't know. I do know that I'm awfully fond of Twiggy and Arty - both great folks - and hope there is a way for them to bury the hatchet. I hope to hike again with both of 'em.”
pedxing
10:36:49 AM
11/18/04



Yup. A sad turn of events. As a distant third party I am dissappointed.

I have ebbed and flowed in terms of getting together with New Englanders for hikes.

As of yet it hasn't happened.

But, I was encouraged by the relative civility and comradery and maturity of the New Enlgand crew (civility and maturity, a requirement of LEE'S no less!!!!).

I figured that there would come a time when I would bite the bullet and try to explain to the wife who you folks were and why I wanted to go hiking with you.


I must say that that day is further away now.”

“awww, you are so sweet PedXing!”

“you can't spell "trespass" without "ass".


I'm big on trespassing.”

“I wonder if bearmagnet is going to forgive his new troll?”

“or 'mess'passing, in your case!”

“Forgiveness of those that hurt you horribly is the hardest thing you'll do in life, but one of the most important.

- me”

“I'm not big on forgiveness. Festering grievances give me reason to get up in the morning and antagonize people.”

“LOL @ Lee! You musta figured I stepped out one night during my honeymoon or something. BTW: your detective work was on target, sorry to have gotten your hopes up.”

“Post no trespassing signs.
PROSECUTORS WILL BE VIOLATED.”

“That's fine unless the trespassers are into that kind of thing and you have to show that it wasn't an idle threat.”

“Forgivness is a fickle thing indeed. It is a thing to be given when asked for.”

“I must say that that day is further away now.”
lee
9:55:43 AM
11/18/04

Now THAT makes me sad...

:(”

“I have never regretted going on my first TT trip. I love them.”

“I read a great essay on forgiveness once. It talked about how one needs to be offended in order to need to forgive. And how one cannot be offended by what one cannot perceive. And if one can perceive an offense, the potential to commit the offense exists as well. Therein lies the difficulty and the humanity -- it is hard to say "There but for the grace of God go I" and to mean it with humility and to forgive. But it is a great gift to give one's self while also giving it to another.”

“Being able to forgive was always something I had a hard time with. High School nearly killed me. I was tormented, teased and beat up all because I never fought back. I never saw the point.

10 years passed and I found myself standing all around the same dickheads and bullies I went to high school with at my reunion 5 years ago.

I grew up and had changed a lot in the time since high school. On my arm was my beautiful wife, I have a bright future and I was in love with life. I talked with many people that night, many of those who used to beat me up. All of them apologized for the pain and torture they put me through.

I realized at that moment how hard it was for these guys to be doing this. None made up excuses for what they did, all said it was wrong and that they were very sorry.

I forgave each and every one that night and made peace with past demons.

On a separate note…

It has truly been a pleasure to have met such fine people here in this forum. We have our differences and our similarities. We share a common desire to be outside with each other or sometimes by ourselves. I look forward to meeting more of you in the coming years.

Special thanks to Crazy Mike for keeping the fire burning bright inside me. He was the first I hiked with (also present was Gforce).

I miss you buddy. Hope to hike with you and Nicole in the future.”

“Amen, WK.”

“I forgive nigal”

“Wannabp: I don't think I ever read that essay, but I agree with what you what you said is interesting. I'm still too easy to offend, and still commit too many offenses - and I haven't worked hard enough at either.

I think part of what you said is what's behind the Leonard Cohen quote I used: "Here's to the few who forgive what you do and the fewer who don't even care." Forgiveness is tricky, - not rising to take personal offense - is even harder.”

“Whooops.

Sorry Twig.

I should have thought that post through a little more carefully.


It doesn't make the day any further away per say.


I just wasn't aware (until recently) that taking advantage of one trip versus another trip had other considerations besides things like location, time off, interest etc.


On top of those factors there is now a bit of a "participant" factor issue.


I have lived many trips vicariously through you, your reports and your pictures. I have tremendous respect for you and your adventures.

And finally, I certainly do hope to take advantage of a Baxter trip one of these days!

Cheers!!!!!! : )”

“"I just wasn't aware (until recently) that taking advantage of one trip versus another trip had other considerations besides things like location, time off, interest etc." --- lee

It doesn't, unless you let it. I pick trips in locations I want to go, when I can go. If folks have a problem with that, then it's their problem.
last edited: 11/18/04 11:08:58 AM”

“Great post there WK. High school was a nightmare for me as well. I didn’t get beat up but I did have a lisp and got mercilessly teased because I’m soft spoken anyhow and I was called gay a lot. I never hung out with the in crowd or the jocks but was that indeterminate crowd that is just part of the backdrop. Kids are cruel and sadly this can lead to those who are ridiculed turning around and doing the same thing. I wasn’t like the head bully but I did my share enough that I think back to what I was like and it breaks my heart and makes me glad to be who I turned out to be. I don’t even go to reunions and never will. They simply have nothing to offer me.

Thanks for your candor.”

“Lee's festering? As in festuring pustules?”

“Speaking of Baxter, I'm hoping to work one out too. I'm having to get an engineering license in Maine for an upcoming project. I'm hoping I can make a site visit become an excuse for a short trip/tax write off.”

““Lee's festering? As in festuring pustules?”

The religous right is the only thing that keeps him going. LOL!”

“Phew! Thanks for the clarification lee!
And I enjoy reading your trip reports even if you won't hike with me.
:)

The participant factor...that's what private trips are all about...”

“One thing dayhiker, when you attend a trip with 20-30-40 people, it's different than a trip with 6-10...also, as the host I feel an obligation to the participants along with a desire to get to know them...AND since most of the Maine trips have been in BSP...well, there's all those rules, and my name is on the reservation...
last edited: 11/18/04 11:22:49 AM”

“No problem Nigel, glad to share.

I have never really shared my feelings here. I have always thought that expressing these things over the web was a horrible way to communicate.

Ever since the board exploded last week, I have been doing a lot of thinking. I almost quit. I was close to posting one final time and that was it. I don't know why I felt this way. The people that left will be back here. They just need time away.

I don't like to single people out here because I don't want people I fail to mention feel bad. The 50 or so people I have met face to face, I love all of you! I really do (OK goofwads)

Maple and Tree hold a special spot in my heart. The planning they put into the Ithaca trip last year was phenomial! I got to meet their son (who is a hell of a kid) I could go on and on about these guys, but I will probably get misty and I don't need that at work.

Hell I could go on about everyone (That would be an interesting thread.

The qualities I love in.. HHMMMMM”

“I have forgiven Dr. McGillicuddy for what he did to me up in Maine.”

“So then you'll be making an appt with the good doctor again sometime?

LOL...”

“"I don't like to single people out here because I don't want people I fail to mention feel bad."
Wounded Knee
11:31:58 AM

Yeah I understand that. In fact, I should have mentioned Pennsy as someone in the "tiff" that I thought was great. He was never anything other than a top notch guy with me, and went the extra mile.

I do appreciate what Twiggy said about putting your name on a reservation - when you do that, you assume an obligation and those who go with you are obliged to help you keep your good name.

There are circumstances that could keep me from hiking with someone, for example if they hiked in a way that really kept me from hiking the way I wanted to - especially if it was unethical. For example, there are some people I love dearly who hike with their dog unleashed. I have no problem with unleashed dogs if well behaved, in fact my dog is often unleashed. However, this dog bit someone on the trail and has menaced other hikers a number of times. I'd love to hike or backpack with these folks again (they have never posted here) and I value their friendship, but I think I'd have to insist they leash their dog or hike without me. I'm hoping they already realize that's what they need to do.”

“LOL!

I'll guess lumberzac is regretting making a Schnapp judgement.”

“I'm sorry...but I just cant forgive those who voted in Bush again.”

“I voted for Bush, but I didn't vote in him, that would be nasty.”

“Ok, what did I miss last week. What blew up and who left the board. Someone give it to me in a nutshell. Thanks”

“And here's a thought on forgiveness. What about when you forgive someone and then they do it to you again. Forgiveness the second time around is next to impossible for me. That's why I'm going through a divorce right now.”

“JOhn,

Basically what happened was someone accusing another person of badmouthing other TTers while on trips.”

“who left over it?”

“goodness...see that kind of thing dont bother me...you all can talk about me all ya want and I dont give a #&%!$ :)”

“Sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never hurt me"”

“Basically what happened was someone accusing another person of badmouthing other TTers while on trips.”
Wounded Knee
12:01:08 PM
11/18/04

That was not it at all. There was some discussion around that subject (it was actually more than badmouthing) but that was NOT the issue.”

“was for me”

“LOL...
Hey, when I air my dirty laundry in public I expect you people to read and understand it!
christ...TT campfire gossip is the best!”

“i've read the whole stoopid thread, and i still don't get it!

btw, i forgive you all for not being as cute and smart as me. i know you can't help it!”

“I'm sorry you got dragged into it mapleleaf.”

“lol at lyra. I don't think I'm even going to try.

It's a new day -- let bygons by bygons -- get your groove on -- life's too short for bickering -- ooh there's another reason I'm getting divorced. LOL”