Forgiveness

“okay, I missed something then...never mind me.
I didn't read the complete thread.”

“Well, WK, there are some very entertaining ways to check the octav range of someone, no?


I've never gone to a reunion. I've mantained contact with @2 people from my earlier life.”

“I don't keep in contact with anyone from high school. They have all mostly moved away (or died).”

“Agreed sacco.”

“Well, maintaining means we email and call each other once in a while. They were good friends and I just saw them for the first time in about 10yrs.

Doesn't seem like any of us have changed.”

“I wasn't really all that close with anybody, but I haven't seen the two guys I was closest friends with in probably 20 years. My one good friend from high school died late last year, and I found out today that another guy I knew died last week.”

“Yikes! That sucks.”

“Yah. The two guys who died both had serious health problems though, so it wasn't really a surprise.”

“I had a good friend just commit suicide. Shook us all up!”

“Yes that does truly suck. My friend who died last year basically drank himself to death, so it was a kind of suicide.”

“Ok, I forgive CS for making me carry about 10 pounds of "snacks" on her first backpacking trip.


Now....



She can forgive me for making her carry that #&%!$ ever since.”

“That was his problem too. He got 3 DUI's in a matter of a year and was grounded (from driving) for about 1 year. The laywer got him off, but they had to pay some high costs for it. He seemed fine. Left no note or reason.”

“My friend was bipolar too. I spoke to his brother afterwards, and it all made sense when he told me. My friend got into a trough and couldn't get out. It didn't help that his wife had committed suicide earlier in the year. Knowing him and knowing the way he was, I can see why it happened.

We hadn't been in contact for 10 years. He was basically a user, and I was tired of being used. But we had enough good old times together that I still call him my friend.”

“Sure enough!

Remember the good times”

“Forget?...yes. I'd like to be able to join the group in declaring my willingness to forgive, but I've spent my life never forgiving (to the detriment of the people I chose not to forgive) and afterwards I walked away;...and forgot them.

I can tell you, the faces I've forgotten...but the darkness stays with me always, and manifests itself at moments I have no control over......”

“Honestly, I have a hard time forgiving, especially if it should have never happened and/or it's the 2nd time a round.

But I have a harder time forgiving myself.”

“Ped, great thread. Timely too it would seem.

Forgiveness is such a fine line. As has been mentioned, opening up ones self again is hard whe you've been hurt,especially by someone close. Forgiveness benefits both in a big way, it offers the chance to look critically at oneself and to learn and grow. Its often painful too. I can say that I harbored a grudge against some family members for years and have in the last few years have been able to get over it. I had to see them recently, it was okay. Though I wont seek out their company (fortunately they live in Arizona).

I still havent gotten it down though. I have hurt people recently (though not intentionally) and have paid for it. I also have learned loads about my approach. Its ironic that if I had taken a differnt tact but kept the substance I reckon the situation would be far better. Realizing this I apologized somewhat recently and it was rejected. That hurt, but I now know where I stand and am fine with that. As Nigal told me recently, in the Jewish tradition an apology is offered three times and if its rejected the responsibility is off of ones shoulders, I like that. I cant force anyone to accept my apology and can move on knowing I have done all I could.

The silver lining in these situations is that you can learn so much about yourself , that is priceless. You can also learn about those who claim to be friends and those who are.

I really think about it more when someone apologizes to me. I really try to empathize with them and try to remember how hard it is to say sorry, I rememeber how it felt when I apologized and was told to "shut up". I try to never reject someones genuine petition, i look at my mirror and ask, could it be me.

Forgiveness is awesome. Saying sorry and saying I forgive you are probably two of the most powerful things two people can say to one another. Learning to say sorry (an to be sorry) is some big medicine.”

“Well put birch!”

“Nice post Birch. Hannah Arendt, whom I greatly admire, said that we all bear the burden of the fact that our actions are irreversible and the consequences cannot be known in advance. Without the capacity for forgiveness, she says, these burdens would be unbearable. Maybe that's how I should have started this thread.

We can't really take anything we do or say back once its said and done, but we can forgive and we can be forgiven.”

“Tomorrow on Dr. Phil

TTers come together!”

“the heck with the forgiveness crap. Just move on. Some folks just want to dwell on sheyatt forever.
A high school friend of mine twenty years after high school called his old girl friend cause HE has some issues he had to deal with. I mean come on!”

“That reminds me of High Fidelity, when he starts calling his old girlfriends to figure out where he went wrong with his current girlfriend.”

“Gosh, I go to LA for a week and people got in a big fight? Did people really leave TT? That's really too bad. (no sarcasm)
I hope they come back.”

“"If the other person injures you, you may forget the injury; but if you injure him you will always remember."

kahlil Gibran”

“Opie I forgive you...


...for being a total ass hole :)”

“How bout me?”

“"But I don't think I was gullible and naive about it. It was a conscious decision based on a lot of discussion and thought.”

Whoa dude! I wasn't meaning you were gullible. I was meaning about letting a stranger with a board hit you a second time. When it's someone you know or love and it's not to direct as hitting you in the head with a board it is a lot different.”

“everyone, please forgive me”

“Sometimes saying "I'm sorry." can be as hard as telling a woman you love her for the first time. Nothing worse than having a mutual disagreement with someone and saying your sorry to have them say, "I forgive you.", while you sit there hanging waiting for the "I'm sorry" that is not coming. Now that's discomfort.”

“Both are easy if you're drunk enough, nigal.”

““Both are easy if you're drunk enough, nigal.”

Especially if it is befor sex too I guess. Although I usually save the "I'm sorry."s for afterwards.”

“I think we should all try to forgive those that have done something to us.

Trust is another thing. You don't have to trust everyone you have forgiven.”

“i told someone i was sorry today. i did it because i genuinely wanted to patch things up and make good.”

“actually two people. im working on the second one right now”

“Extrudinator, you bring up a really good point. Trust is a dying commodity. I recall growing up how close my friends and I were, closer then brothers. As adults we grew apart and have in the last year or so started talking more and in many ways it's like there isnt a gap of years. I would still trust them with my life. I have met many people since then and would only say that I trust a small portion of them. Experience has taught me to be wary, especially of people who say things like " dont worry, I wont repeat what you've said". That now sets off the warning whistles. If I can trust you, you dont need to tell me, I know it already. Those I do trust however have my loyalty and friendship for life. I honor friendship second only to my marriage.”

“I read your first post about your days back in school and then going to your Class reunion.
I was also the kid that got picked on and bullied back then. It was a huge relief to graduate. I've always had a pretty negitive outlook on school because of the crap I put up with back then. I've even struggeled with a few demons of my own from those days.
This past summer I went to my 20 year reunion to try to put some of my demons to rest. I was very suprised to see how people had changed. Some of the people that were "above me" back then were very nice and easy to approach. I only ran into one person that was a dickhead back then and was obviously still a dickhead. I just told him I didn't remember him. That seemed put a thorn in his side. hehehe!
No one actually appoligized but It still made me feel extreamly proud of who I was in the company of those people for the first time.

So even with those demons put to rest I can still honestly say F**k 'em. I still ain't forgiving S**t. It took 20 years to be able to finally deal with it.
last edited: 11/18/04 6:14:25 PM”

“I mean...kids can be cruel. We all know that, a lot of us did it at least once. Don't tell me you have never done anything cruel or just wrong to another person.

I am sorry for what I have done while I was a kid, but I can't take it back. Kids grow into an adult.

you are getting my point right?

I live by the rule that whatever I do will get back to me sooner or later. Good or bad!

shlt, I have faults, so hopefully the bad will get back to me when I am really old.

Biggest fault? I am very revengeful. Everything needs to be paid back. you phuck with me, i phuck you right back.

Dang, did that even fit into this thread? Dunn know, just had to get it off my chest... I don't forgive easily, and I never forget, but some things that happend while you where a child, they are just that...child memories.

But besides that...I am a really, really nice person!!! Really!!!!”

“"I just told him I didn't remember him. That seemed put a thorn in his side. hehehe!"

I'm writing that one down! Great one WD!”

“Note to self: Be nice to Gemini!”

“Oh chill, I sound worse then I actually am.
(now that I re read it)”

“lol, I am just kidding you!


Forgive me?


Just please don't beat me...”

“lol. you know I luv ya!!”

“Get a damn room you two. Oh sorry, that wasn't nice. Bygones?”

“Whew....am I relieved!”

“Incredible, how this caught on and everyone's different takes on the subject.

So here's another take.... What about the person who tosses off "I'm sorry" repeatedly and casually. I'm sorry for whatever, seems like a way to discount the whole issue to me and is a quick way to drive me crazy. Don't any of you dare to use this against me. JKing.”

“I had an abusive childhood. What am I saying I didn't have a childhood, really. I finally talked about it when I was in my early 30's. My father denied it happened. I couldn't forgive a man that put his own interests (reputation) above his daughter's. I couldn't bring myself to forgive him. I just couldn't do it. I have some guilt (not much), you know the whole honor your father thing. But I can't have someone in my life that doesn't respect me. He's dead now so I don't have to worry.”

“Tango, sometimes you have to put yourself before others. Sometimes people don't deserve to be forgiven, esp if they don't seek it or admit to any fault. Some things are too nasty to be let go. Don't feel guilty.”

“If you have been mistreated or harmed by someone, you don't have to like or trust that person anymore, but you should forgive them and wish them the best. You can love someone, but not like them. Otherwise your anger and resentment eats away at you not the other person.”

“If it hasn't been said before...and I know it's sometimes used on tacky bumper stickers...

Forgive, yes. Forget, never.”

“I agree you have to let stuff go and get on with your life but you do not have to forgive someone who abused you.”