NBA: National Basketball Assault

“wow. stupid shove by ben-wa, cowardly beer throw by cowardly pistons fan, ill-advised retaliation on fan by artest, more punches that should not have been thrown by jermaine oneal and steven jackson, and pathetic display by fans as pacers try to retreat. as if we're not depleted enough by injuries, now we're gonna lose our most important players to suspension. crap.

well, thats entertainment”

“Never seen anything like it. This will dominate the (sporting) news for a while.”

“Sportscenter did an excellent play by play analysis of the fight. Good stop action and yellow arrow diagraming. What a bunch of spoiled millionaires.”

“didnt they just have the same thing at a boxing match? the bell would ring but the fights kept going in the stands with the fans.

men and sports.”

“I was watching that game but fell asleep in the 3rd qtr. Ron Artest has no clue about life. Someday he'll have to get a real job and it will be a rude awakening.

Didi the Mavs win?”

“And they say hockey is bad! All those players should go to jail for battery! The fan should be charged with assault (Florida law)l.”

“the more i think about it, the more im upset with artest. and im a pacers fan, and artest is my favorite player. he should have been smarter. im cringing thinking about all the suspensions coming to an already short-handed team, a team that i was so proud of for coming thru so much. artest had it all in his hands. he could have prevented this. so could have steven jackson. that was even more uncalled for for him to jump in the melee. its easy for us all to sit here in judgement and say they shouldnt have fought, however, that doesnt change the fact we're right. when artest and oneal and jackson get punished, its just not them getting punished, its the team, and the pacers fans because these guys are such an important part of the team. it also makes me sick that alot of the fans and their despicable behaviour are going to go unpunished cuz they threw things from the anonymity of the crowd. i hope they get that chair-thrower, and i hope they get the beer-thrower, and i hope everyone who theyve got on tape throwing punches and objects is arrested. i went to bed ticked off about this, and i woke up ticked off. its a sad day in sports”

“They aren't going to do anything too drastic. I think back to the attempted murderer Latrell Spreewell choking his coach! All is forgotten and forgiven.

They are "special" and can get away with way too much. Yes here are young basketball players' role models.”

“sprewells actions werent caught on tape as far as i know, and didnt lead to a dangerous free-for-all. it was scary to see mob mentality take over. ppl doing things they dont normally do because they get caught up in the emotions. another incident that comes to mind is woodstock '99. humanity has such an ugly side. and we celebrate that ugly side with reality shows and jerry springer and the like. sports is supposed to be, among other things, an outlet for aggressive energy, to be focused in a positive way.”

“The knock on the Pacers is that they aren't very tough.

The knock on the Pistons is that they are fluke champions. And they haven't gotten off to a great start.

So, I'm not surprised by the on-court fighting. I think Artest was trying to send a message at the end with a foul. And Ben Wallace, rightfully, wanted to send the message back.

Artest is responsible for bringing this into the crowd.”

“crash bang, it seems your more worried about what is going to happen to the team since they don't have there star players. Who cares throw the thugs in jail and let them sit.
I agree with bbw, they are nothing but spoiled millionaires who think they are above everything.

one thing pro athletics should know is the fans are going to give them hell any way they can. They have to have the maturity to overlook it.
Of course that is easier said than done.”

“Yet another reason why I don't watch professional sports.

Is NASCAR a sport? :p”

“One thing I find interesting is that all the news reporters keep saying "a fight last night in Detroit..."

This happened in Auburn Hills. It's an hour away from Detroit. The players don't live in Detroit. 95% of the fans don't live in Detroit.

I'll bet someone comes in with a camera to a couple of abandoned buildings in the city and starts talking about how Detroit is such a tough city. Sorry. There is nothing "tough" about Auburn Hills - home of glass towers, Chrysler and shopping malls.

This was a soccer mom and dad riot.”

“Yup. No fistfights in NASCAR.

But, really, this will only help ratings and interest in the NBA. People all say that they don't want this. But watch the ratings and ticket sales. They will go up. Maybe they'll even show the Pacers/Pistons on network TV.

And the NBA couldn't have placed the fight better in the schedule. Both teams will be back to full strength before they meet in the playoffs.

The NBA will be all high and mighty about it, but this puts money in their pockets.”

“what artest did was wrong. i also should have said scores of ppl could have been seriously hurt, children were scared, and a little old lady was almost trampled. it was an irresponsible reaction. but most of us in his situation would have done the exact same thing. we should all remember that before we get too high and mighty. that chokehold/shove by benwa was vicious. if you watched artests body language, you would have seen that he was doing everything in his power to avoid confrontation.
the fan that threw the beer knew what he was doing. he thought it would be pretty entertaining to provoke one of sports most volatile athletes, one who until recently has shown remarkably improved behavior. i dont think he predicted it would get this entertaining.
one also has to question how much of this is on rick carlisles shoulders. one of the knocks on isaiah thomas when he was coaching the pacers was the lack of discipline and integrity. then larry bird took over as president and brought rick carlisle in as coach, and all the discipline problems disappeared. or so we thought. looks like maybe he was just putting lipstick on a pig, so to speak. there was never a blow-up of this magnitude under thomas's tenure. but then, there was never such a despicable display of unsportsmanlike conduct by an opposing fan either.
artest, benwa, oneal, jackson, and all those hitting from behind, chairthrowing, beer-throwing "fans" should do jail time. benwa and artest should sit out several games, and some of those fans should receive lifetime bans. im interested in how punishment is meted out.
last edited: 11/20/04 12:18:16 PM”

“look how quick all of us are on this message board to fight, and then ask yourself if youre any better. its human nature. jesus, we put a bunch of alpha males in one room, amped up on adrenaline, throw 10 of them together at one time chasing a bouncy orange ball, and we're shocked when something like this happens. we're just cavemen with nice shoes. we didnt get to the top of the food chain by being nice. we're just a few thousand years removed from taking down a gazelle on the serengeti with our bare hands. those instincts are still there. we've just been putting lipstick on a pig.

oink”

“Good point CrashBang !

Remind you of the movie "Fight Club" ?”

“fight club is one of my all-time favorite movies. it says alot about us (humans)
last edited: 11/20/04 1:04:25 PM”

“i think it should have been a warning to carlisle when artest wanted to don rodmans old number”

“You don't see NASCAR fans running onto the track during a race. Artest didn't want to fight Wallace, but he had no problem punching a 5' 6" 150 pound fan who was still holding his beer.

I thought the funniest thing was that porky fan who gets out on the floor and gets cracked in the jaw by two players. Boom, he's down, he's up, Boom, down again. Freaking hysterical.”

“Isn't this just the behaviours Wolfeyes was talking about the other day on another thread?
I actually find the whole episode very amusing.”

“Carlisle is a weird dude.

When he coached the Pistons, the team made an amazing turnaround in terms of wins. Everything was great. But the second the team was eliminated from the playoffs, all the players and the organization turned on him.

The guy seems to be tactically brilliant. But he also seems to make lots of enemies on a personal level. It's so weird. I could totally see him exacerbating the Artest situation.

Oh, and the caveman thing is probably true. Almost every fan in Detroit points with pride to a game with the Colorado Avalanche in the year Yzerman won his first cup. The "highlight" was Patrick Roy with blood on his jersey from a goalie fight.

But we live in a tribal age. Damn the French. Damn the Germans. Damn the Pacers/Pistons.”

“damn you all to hell.

and dont forget the idiots in boston who rioted, which caused at least one death. and what was the common element? not spoiled millionaire athletes but "fans", or more rightly put "fanatics"”

“In 1997, I was in Ann Arbor for the Michigan OSU game that led to the national championship.

A drunk man started to climb a 50 foot tall tree outside the university president's house. 300 fans started to yell "higher" "higher". The man started to climb out onto branches that obviously wouldn't support his weight. It was terrible. And the crowd egged him on.

Then, the man fell. Luckily, he randomly hit a limb on the way down. He survived, but only by chance. People are scary. Even in supposedly intelligent, safe settings.”

“"You don't see NASCAR fans running onto the track during a race"

no, but the exercise would do them some good, if they dont get run over first.”

“I thought it was great. I'd pay money to watch that kind of brawl every night.

Haymakers being thrown in all directions, what a great time.

What's even more interesting is the Indianapolis Colts play the Detroit Lions on Thanksgiving Day in Detroit.

Fun, fun, fun!!!!”

“I'm with you. More fights less basketball. I might actually watch some games if this keeps up.”

“Puny!!!

You should see some fights in the kid's divisions in Hockey in some Canadian cities. And I'm talking about the parents vs parents, or parents vs coaches or refs. And I'm talking about grabbing one's hair and bashing their head onto the ice!!!!”

“I can believe it. I've almost gotten into a fight at a hockey game. Emotion is definetely in overdrive when it comes to sports.”

“why does it seem like there are more fights in hockey than any other sport?”

“Because hockey is so boring no one would watch otherwise.”

“just saw on the crawler a little bit ago artest out for 30 games, and i believe jackson and oneal out for 20, benwa for 5. punishments are fair, i just hope the fans get their just desserts, but im not optimistic. theyre not going to be able to nail everyone who was throwing things. each and every person out there is accountable. just like artest ultimately cannot blame the beer-throwing fan or benwa, the fanatics cannot blame the pacers for actions that they consciously took”

“I just heard that Artest is done for the season. Jackson is getting 30 and Oneal 25. Wallace gets 6 and Anthony Jackson gets 5.”

“Alochol was thought to be a contributing factor. Stope beer sales at the games, either that or put up chain link fences and call them death matches.”

“I heard that there are like three Pistons and Reggie Miller who get one game for leaving the bench.

And I've heard hubcap's version, too.

I'm hoping they go after the fans, too.”

“hubcap is correct, except its anthony johnson instead of jackson. billups, miller, and a few others get the standard one-game for leaving the bench during a brawl. and i hope the fans get nailed. stern and company are so focused on sending a message by coming down hard on the players, will they be consistent and send a message to fans too? i think a few season-long bans are in order”

“Artest = 73 regular-season games!!!

Now if he gets charged with battery how great would that be!!!!”

“Why blame the fans? One fan throws a beer and the players go into the stands? All bets are off at that point. Artest was too much of a chicken #&%!$ to punch Wallace. He doesn't care about basketball or the fans. He is promoting his rap music.

The coaches and refs should have gotten Wallace off the floor and Artest off the table. It was not the fans fault.”

“According to Florida law (I don't know about Indiana law, probably pretty close) the fan who threw the drink could be charged with assault and the players with battery.”

“See? This is what happens when the NHL goes on strike. We don't get our dosage of regular fighting, so people start looking to pick a fight where they don't belong...”

“Ain't NOTHING like this ever happened in the NHL! So don't even try it!”

“Wait until Mike Ryan sues Artest in civil court. He was the fan that did not throw a beer that Artest attacked.”

“Yep, I'm waiting!”

“Why are we making comparisons with other sports on this one? The proximity of fans and players is completely different in basketball. Both Hockey and Nascar are separated by some kind of fence whether it be steel or plexi-glass. I was fortunate enough to play in 20 sports seasons as a HS and college athlete. You feel the presence of fans in baskeball like no other. There feet are right next to yours on the in-bound. Sometimes you end up in some persons lap when you go after a ball going out-of-bounds. I was even hit in the side of a head with a sucker during a game. No, I didn't go after any fans. Unfortunately this closeness leads to a potential failure like we saw on Friday night.

This would have been a no-issue if some dipshat would have done what you are suppose to do with beer, drink it.”

“Why blame the fans? bbw, as a staunch conservative, i know you believe in personal accountability. benwa was wrong, artest was wrong and the fans were wrong. anyone who threw a punch, a beer, a chair or anything else was wrong. i know you hate it when ppl blame their actions on others. well, dont let the detroit fans shift blame. they didnt have to hit from behind. they didnt have to throw a chair. they are responsible for their own actions.
artests punishment was too harsh. stern even said that it was artests previous history that helped lead him to that decision. well, he sure didnt take into account his good behavior of this year and all last year. i cannot recall a single altercation post-thomas. additionally, its double-jeopardy to punish him extra-hard when he was punished before on any previous incidents. with the exception of benwas punishment being a little light, i think the other suspensions were fair”

“Tango, yes it has happened in the NHL. Montreal vs Boston game (I forget which year)....some Boston players went into the stands and were punching the Montreal fans...I think it was O'Rielly that had one fan on his knee and was spanking him.. hee hee. There was almost a riot...and the Boston players had to leave via a backdoor to their bus.

There were a few other incidents over the years in the NHL....one where a player tried to hit a fan with his hockey stick.”

“So players came off the bench and went into the stands and fought with fans??? Don't think so!

I know that on a rare occasion players have lost it and fought fans. Bsd business anyway you look at it.”

“One thing I didn't see mentioned was about the look on that first guys face when his buddies stepped out of the way. Artest is charging into the bleachers and there's this white dude about 5'10. He behind his bigger buddies with a taunting look on his face. His buddies step aside and there is this, "Oh $hit" look on his face right before Artest smacks him. The whole thing is a tragedy, but I still laugh about that guy. bbw hit on the idiot in the Pistons jersey who got popped twice while on the floor.”

“The "guy in the white hat" is being shown on TV.

They are trying to figure out who he is.

(He's the guy who threw the beer that started it all.)”