My god's Bigger Than your God

“religion as an idea is a wonderful thing. The belief that one is rewarded after death for being good in life is beautiful, especially since being good in life doesn't often get you many rewards while alive. When the most disgusting, dishonest swine seem to have everything in life while the kind, polite, and caring just get stepped on over and over.

but the problem is that, when its put into the hands of people, with all our shortcomings and sickness, we twist it and pervert it. We use it to justify intrusion into the lives of people who don't believe what we do. We use it to get people to perform the most horrible atrocities and to do it smiling.

It's easy to point at Sharia law and talk about how ridiculous it is (and it is ridiculous), but it's just as ridiculous that a religious movement strongly supported by the Mormon and Catholic churches took the right to marry away from gays in California this last election. If you don't believe in the same god as George Bush, then all his talk about taking orders from god was completely terrifying. If you believed in Osama Bin Laden's god, then what he did on 9-11 was not only justified, but absolutely necessary. This is what organized religion can do.

organized religion has strayed stunningly far from the original teachings. Look at the palatial Vatican City and try to put that in terms with the teachings of Jesus. Look at televangelists and Sharia law and Israel bombing the everloving crap out of the Palestine and Palestinians blowing up buses and cafes in retaliation. Look at the "Thank god for IEDs" people celebrating at the funerals of soldiers, wackos blowing up abortion clinics, and women being stoned to death FOR BEING RAPED.

I think religion on a small-scale is a beautiful thing, granted it's a thing I do not believe in. Individual prayer, the peace of knowing that someone all-powerful has a plan for you, that's just wonderful and I only wish I wasn't so skeptical as to not believe a lick of it.

But when religion gets organized, then you get PEOPLE telling you what God really meant... and then you have serious problems. You have centuries of war, genocide, people being burned at the stake and beheaded and bombed all because of what a MAN or handful of MEN told them god wanted.

The only "truth" in most religions is contained in a single book or, at the most, a handful of texts - the Bible, the Talmud, the Koran, etc. You don't need preachers in multimillion dollar churches to tell you about God. All you need for whatever religion you choose is in those books, which you can sit and read at home. I'm sure if they ever existed, Christ, Mohammed, Buddha, or L. Ron Hubbard would have never intended anything like what you see now (well, maybe L. Ron would've). I'm sure quiet prayer at home, as opposed to bleacher-seating prayer while a millionaire with a wireless mic and a thousand dollar suit shouts sermons over the PA, won't send you to hell. In fact, I argue it would make you a more pure believer.

And I think, just as every Christian, Mormon, Jew, Muslim etc feels they have the responsibility to educate others about their beliefs and attempt to convert them, every nonbeliever and skeptic has that same responsibility. After all, we believe our side is right just as strongly as you believe your side is. And a little debate never hurt anyone and you never know - someone might change your mind”

“it's too bad you cant put all that on a bumper sticker so that people can read it”

“anyone who considers ben stein to be a genius

that's why i put it in quotes...i was talking from a technical standpoint”

“The belief that one is rewarded after death for being good in life is beautiful

the biggest misconception about christianity”

“i have no problem with christians practicing their religion. most of them arent pushy about proselytizing, either

but when they start crying "victim", i just gotta say STFU”

“but the problem is that, when its put into the hands of people, with all our shortcomings and sickness, we twist it and pervert it

well said

religious movement strongly supported by the Mormon and Catholic churches took the right to marry away from gays in California this last election. If you don't believe in the same god as George Bush, then all his talk about taking orders from god was completely terrifying. If you believed in Osama Bin Laden's god, then what he did on 9-11 was not only justified, but absolutely necessary. This is what organized religion can do.

you're oversimplifying...the PEOPLE voted in california and religion didn't play as big a part in it as you're making it out to be”

“the biggest misconception about christianity

christians believe in getting rewarded in the afterlife. that much is true. so it's not a total misconception. but if thats the only reason youre a christian UR DOING IT WRONG. the real essence of christianity is to be excellent to one another, not out of fear or sense of obligation, but because god is in your heart”

“the PEOPLE voted in california and religion didn't play as big a part in it as you're making it out to be

how do you know? did you ask them?”

“i'm not talking about religion on a personal level, i'm sure many voters voted that way based on their religious believes...i'm talking about religion as an institution...she made it sound like the big bad christian boogy man cause the referendum to fail, but in reality the people voted on it...a lot of religious bodies are for a compromise on this subject...let them have the same rights just don't call it marriage”

“yes, a good amount of nonreligious people probably also voted for Proposition 8, but I can just about guarantee that every churchgoer in the state voted against it. Without that boost, the proposition would have failed miserably. People saw it as their religious responsibility to vote for it.
last edited: 4/14/09 2:13:09 PM”

“but the majority won out...that's how it's supposed to be”

“...now someone come back and say "but the majority of the people thought slavery was a good idea at one time"”

“most of my family is religious - they all came out of church before election day with a clear understanding that they HAD to vote for it. I'm not sure if a priest came out and said "vote yes on 8" (I think they'd get into some fuzzy ground with tax-exempt status there if they did that), but a well-placed sermon on "It is an abomination for a man to lie with another man" (or whatever the ONE line in the bible mentioning gays is) can skirt the line between religion and politics and still get the point across loud and clear”

“which is why a compromise is needed”

“the majority isn't always right. I know the whole basis of democracy is that the majority IS right... but there are many examples, slavery being one of them but far from the only, where the majority made a mistake.”

“as for compromise, hell I don't really get why gays NEED to be married to be honest. Yes, a civil union is just as good. But it isn't the same. It's separate-but-equal - Jim Crow...

Marriage is just a word - the whole thing is a public debate on semantics, and I'll agree that the fact that it became an issue at all is utterly absurd (think of the money spent by both sides on it that could've better gone elsewhere)... but I believe it's segregation to say "well, you can't get married, but you can have a civil union... it's the same thing." Try doing that to the blacks, or the muslims, or the green party members. It would be laughably unconstitutional to single out other groups with a rule like this, so why gays?”

“if gays are allowed to have civil unions, whats to stop them from calling it a marriage?”

“well, marriage and civil union are two legally different (though essentially identical) things. I'm guessing the whole thing is about recognition. Gays want to be recognized as an important and equal group. Even though it's just a stupid word, by denying it, it's saying "you're not equal"”

“The majority is never right, because it is the safe haven. For example, the citizens of this country could see that the CCCP was evil and should be broken up. Yet, they could not see that the USA , in it's overpowering way, was just as, if not worse than the Soviet and should go also to allow 'Cold War Wins, bad big boys gone'.
last edited: 4/14/09 2:56:55 PM”

“lol..ya'll been busy today!!!”

“There's no reason a person can't have genius level intelligence and be completely insane (sorry, Ben).”

“I'd take that even further and say that often the barrier holding insanity back gets thinner as intelligence increases”

“My god eats Ken-L-Ration.”

“I was just reading that you might want to be on the lookout for a fake David Broder column that might be making the rounds on Conswervative blogs ----”

“or whatever the ONE line in the bible mentioning gays is
pepsisformosa


It's mentioned lots more than one time. Greed and money issues are mentined way, way more often though, yet we brush right past that.”

“�anyone who considers ben stein to be a genius....well i withold my comment in favor of being a "tolerant libbie"�
crash bang
2:21:21 PM
4/14/09

LOL...He had a game show..instant loss of crediblity.



The biggest problem with "anyone" in leadership positions (religion, etc) that uses "emotion" for control is that they eventually see themselves as "BIGGER" than anything.

The gay issue is more of a political ploy than a religious thing. Friends of my parents say the "Broke back Bishop" in Connecticut is not really gay. Rather he was making a statement.”

“Even the part Ben Stein did write is a little off the wall - but it becomes obviosly phony later on. Attributing this to Ben Stein says something about the honesty and integrity of whoever first stuck his name on it and to his/her faith in the gullibility and wishful thinking of those who would read it and pass it on.”

“'would read it and pass it on.'

Pass it over, maybe.
last edited: 4/15/09 7:59:00 AM”

“Okay I need 3 of you to come to my next community meeting...LOL we had a "primative Southern Baptist" Deacon or something. Each idea for an injury prevention program (for kids) we would bring up he would somehow interject wanting us to just boycott, #1 Abortion Clinics, #2 Liquor Stores, #3 Video Stores, #4 Video Game places, #5 NON Christian Book Stores.

He kept asking people during the breaks 'What religion are you?" Then he would berate anyone who was Catholic, or NON BAPTIST!!!!!!.

He came around to me and asked me I replied "Reformed Druid." He got a look like I just spoke to him in Latin...(LOL)”

“Okay I need 3 of you to come to my next community meeting.

I'M IN!”

“Okay, HPD I think this is more appropriatly placed under this thread. Now rant on about Dating GOD.

Maybe some of you should look elsewhere for your happiness. Look to God first. Worry about a husband/wife later. First you need to learn what marriage is all about - hint: its not about making you happy. Forget your selfish ways and turn to Christ.

thats my opinion - flame away�

HighPlainsDrifter
3:29:02 AM
11/20/09


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

�Who is selfish?
HPD, obviously you can tell us what marriage is NOT about, but,in your own words, what IS marriage about?
Please let your wisdom shine on you.�

Euro hike
3:51:39 AM
11/20/09”

“My last girlfriend found God while I was dating her. At least she used to yell out, "Oh God!" a lot. 8D”

“We must have dated the same girl. Mine was always yelling to god that she was on her way (I paraphrase)”

“Sorry for yall those comments are past tense. My wife says that stuff all the time.”

“Euro - with an attitude like that, it is no wonder you are having trouble finding a worthy date. I was trying to be helpful, and you return the favor with mean spirited disrespect. Take my advice or leave it. It's your life.”

“I know”

“Mine was always yelling to god that she was on her way (I paraphrase)”
hyway
4:30:21 AM
11/20/09

LOL!”

“?!? Mean spirited disrespect?!?
...all I had asked from you was clarification on some of your above statements. I was sincere. Who is selfish in your opinion? What IS the meaning of marriage, in your opinion? Telling us what it is not about is NOT helpfull.
What exactly is my attitude, in your opinion, that you turn so insultingly and in most hurtfull ways against me?
last edited: 11/20/09 5:19:09 AM”

“hpd, you and i understand that what you said wasnt meant as a put-down, but to euro, it probably did, and she probably took it a little harsher than what you meant, and vice versa.”

“Euro - I was only referring to this remark: "Please let your wisdom shine on you."

Maybe you did not mean it sarcastically, and if I misunderstood, then sorry.”

“HPD, my comment was meant rather light hearted jokingly, but I understand it may have easily come across as sarcasm. I do apologize if it was inappropriate in the context of this reply, but the rest of my questions were really meant sincere.”

“For the record, my "I know" post was meant for Dayhiker's post, not HPD's”

“lets all hug”

“Who is selfish in your opinion?

IMO, we are ALL selfish when we do things for our own happiness. I am, you are, anybody is. I am not exempt and do it ALL THE TIME. (crash, I know what you're thinking, don't go there) -- I am only saying that there is another way to look at things where you look to God and trust in God instead of looking to find answers ourselves. Yes, you have to be proactive, but let a higher power guide you instead of thinking you/we/I have all the answers.

What IS the meaning of marriage, in your opinion?

IMO, marriage is a bond where 2 people come together and use the power of that combined love (like wonder twins) to try to honor God. What "honoring God" looks like may be different for different people, but in essence it means trying to be loving towards others as a couple.

Ok, those are over-simplified answers and I recognize they seem like foreign concepts to many who do not believe Jesus is Lord, but that is my take on it.”

“One more thought: the reflex to move the God discussion thread away from the dating/marriage discussion is a major indication of the source of unhappiness imo. I believe when we make relationships about ourselves and not what God has ordained, we set ourselves up for failure. That goes for Christians and non-Christians alike.”

“(in a Rain-Man voice) Dayhiker made a joke.
And, to stay on topic, my god is infinity times bigger than any god you can even conceive of.
End of thread.”

“Mine is infinity +1 times bigger than yours. Now its the end of thread.”

“the reflex to move the God discussion thread away from the dating/marriage discussion is a major indication of the source of unhappiness imo

that doesnt have to be true. that seems to imply that if you dont have god in your life, youre not happy, which is false. some ppl have god and are unhappy (and vice-versa), and some ppl dont have god and are happy (and vice versa). if that is not what you intended to imply, then nevermind”

“More people would go to church if more churches ran wineries.”

“Okay.


As I said, I know a few good relationships (so much that I see them as role model), but religion isnt the key factor, either because none of both beliefe in God, or one sort of beliefs in God or a divine being and the other doesnt?

I beliefe mutual respect and understanding is very, very important in any relationship.”