U.S. should not help tsunami victims

“U.S. Should Not Help Tsunami Victims
Thursday December 30, 2004
By: David Holcberg

Our money is not the government's to give.

As the death toll mounts in the areas hit by Sunday's tsunami in southern Asia, private organizations and individuals are scrambling to send out money and goods to help the victims. Such help may be entirely proper, especially considering that most of those affected by this tragedy are suffering through no fault of their own.

The United States government, however, should not give any money to help the tsunami victims. Why? Because the money is not the government's to give.

Every cent the government spends comes from taxation. Every dollar the government hands out as foreign aid has to be extorted from an American taxpayer first. Year after year, for decades, the government has forced American taxpayers to provide foreign aid to every type of natural or man-made disaster on the face of the earth: from the Marshall Plan to reconstruct a war-ravaged Europe to the $15 billion recently promised to fight AIDS in Africa to the countless amounts spent to help the victims of earthquakes, fires and floods--from South America to Asia. Even the enemies of the United States were given money extorted from American taxpayers: from the billions given away by Clinton to help the starving North Koreans to the billions given away by Bush to help the blood-thirsty Palestinians under Arafat's murderous regime.

The question no one asks about our politicians' "generosity" towards the world's needy is: By what right? By what right do they take our hard-earned money and give it away?

The reason politicians can get away with doling out money that they have no right to and that does not belong to them is that they have the morality of altruism on their side. According to altruism--the morality that most Americans accept and that politicians exploit for all it's worth--those who have more have the moral obligation to help those who have less. This is why Americans--the wealthiest people on earth--are expected to sacrifice (voluntarily or by force) the wealth they have earned to provide for the needs of those who did not earn it. It is Americans' acceptance of altruism that renders them morally impotent to protest against the confiscation and distribution of their wealth. It is past time to question--and to reject--such a vicious morality that demands that we sacrifice our values instead of holding on to them.

Next time a politician gives away money taken from you to show what a good, compassionate altruist he is, ask yourself: By what right?”

“Let them eat cake.”

“

has wet dreams involving:




better known as the "anti-viagra"”

“That's gotta be Ayn Rand.”

“"Every cent the government spends comes from taxation. Every dollar the government hands out as foreign aid has to be extorted from an American taxpayer first."

That goes for all the money mis-spent in Iraq.”

“15 billion to Florida Huricane Victims

35 Million to for the Tsunami

NY Yankee Payroll 100 million plus”

“How much did we help those 500,000 slaughtered in Rwanda or the Sudaneese

Why do natural disasters raise people's compassion than genocide?”

“1. We relate to natural disasters

2. It's a "quick" fix

3. We see media attention on it constantly

4. No one really interfers

Yes, I've discussed this recently. ;)”

“Didn't John Kerry have 20 million dollars left at the end of this campaign?

I think John Kerry should blow the wad and send it all to the Red Cross. It'll make the 35 million that the entire US is contributing look as small as it really is.”

“reformed, John Kerry gave about $200,000. of his leftover funds to help the democrat running for govenor of WA pay for a recount since she lost by a small amount of votes. Now I don't know if $200,000. was all he had left or all he wanted to give her. Since she won the election, she does not have to pay for the recount, the state does, so he should have his $200,000. coming back to him as far as I know.”

“I kind of have mixed feelings on this one. It is just so disastrous that something needs to be done. But then again I am pretty much against forigne aid. Why us? Do we think this will make us popular? Hell even Americans like Reformed Lurker are looking the gift horse in the mouth do we think the ones getting the cash will be thankful?”

“In this case, the answer to that quesrtion may just be yes, Nigal...”

“Don't take the bait folks....this moron doesn't deserve the attention.”

“Motives are always questioned by those who cannot possibly know your intent. I try very hard to not let what others think be a reason for not doing what I believe is right.”

“Then again Jo, you just did. LOL! Why is it when a conservative challenges someone’s opinion you swoop in and get all high and mighty saying, “It’s his opinion and he can say whatever he wants. Stop being a prick”, but then you have no problem doing the exact same thing?
last edited: 12/31/04 9:02:36 AM”

“Why us?
Because we can.
Because relieveing suffering is the right thing to do.
Because helping others is always rewarded although not always in an obvious manner.
Because Ayn Rands social darwinist bull#&%!$ sounds great until you personaly need help and none is there.
last edited: 12/31/04 9:04:35 AM”

“hpm just nailed it”

““Why us?
Because we can.
Because relieveing suffering is the right thing to do.
Because helping others is always rewarded although not always in an obvious manner.
Because Ayn Rands social darwinist bull#&%!$ sounds great until you persoanlly need help and none is there.”

Huh, that's the same thing I say when people ask why we are in Iraq. I get called dirty names for it though...”

“Nigal.....get up off your brain and be a human being for once, not a conservative or liberal or whatever.

This isn't a political thing....it's a human thing. When things like this happen people just help. All this crybaby tax talk is just crap.

Bait? No dude....your the master.”

“Nigal, I really don't want to debate Iraq
but there is a profound difference in the scenarios.

Surely you can see that.”

““Nigal.....get up off your brain and be a human being for once, not a conservative or liberal or whatever."

Hey thanks. Nothing starts out a conversation like a good insult.

"This isn't a political thing....it's a human thing. When things like this happen people just help. All this crybaby tax talk is just crap."

OK, well let's all be humans and pony up from our own pockets then and keep the tax money serving those who pay the tax money. Use tax money to search for the Americans and let the private funders handle the rest. There seems to be plenty to go around.

"Bait? No dude....your the master.”

I'm not baiting because the majority of the people who would take said bait are people I won't even hold a discussion with. I've always viewed jmitch as a very levelheaded guy whom I respect so I felt he could handle an opposing pov. And he did. You and I supposedly buried the hatchet so I felt a response to you would be OK. I was wrong.

OK, now call me a name and insult me again so we can wrap this up. Don't worry, I'll be the grown up and let it all go. :P”

““Nigal, I really don't want to debate Iraq
but there is a profound difference in the scenarios.

Surely you can see that.”

The cause of the suffering is different but the end results we want to achieve are very simular. Didn't mean to derail the thread. Sorry.”

“Hey, I thought I tossed the Iraq bait out there.

I just got back from a camping trip with a couple of 18 year old boys and I'm nagged by what's happening to kids like them in a place far removed from our reality.

I heard a report of an Australian colonel who landed a C-130 loaded with relief material and was rebuffed by an Indonesian officer.
The bureaucracy wasn't ready........maybe tomorrow.

The Australian told the guy he was prepared to make seven runs per day.
They would bring their own material handlers and trucks and all personel needed for the mission.

That's the kind of thing I want to see soldiers doing, not killing and destroying infrastructure and property.

Killing and destroying is what the tsunamis did.

U.S. tax money is being spent wildly to kill and destroy and then spent to pick up the pieces.......in that other place.”

“The people were, of course, killed because they didn't work hard enough in their area to create a tsunami early warning system. They just didn't plan well enough ahead for this. Why should we be held responsible for another person's lack of planning and initiative?

:)”

“Easy big fella......nope....I'm not going for your pity party or bait. You having a bad day?

I am ponying up my money to private relief groups and I'll let that evil US government take some of my tax dollars and send it over there too. I'd rather they spend it there then on this futile messianic military mission in Iraq.

Maybe you took my previous barbs personally because you feel truly awful inside for having such disgusting, selfish notions about this crisis of humanity.

Use US tax dollars to search for Americans only?

Vomit. I hope you don't really feel that way. Grow up? Look in the mirror. Only a loathsome selfish prick would utter such nonsense.”

“Jo,

I know Nigal personally, and he is a good man. Definitely not a prick.

I disagree with him virulently on politics.

But, what the hey, I've got two Republican groomsmen, so there's a limit to my antipathy.”

“I'm havin' an awesome day Jo. I feel great. I t's the weekend and I had a long yet fulfilling week at work. Getting to spend the day with the wife and it's 56 degrees here today. What's to feel bad about?

Hope ya have a great weekend and your day gets better Jo. :)”

“The real issue is the means to achieve those results.

I'm sure in the most general way everyone would agree that ending suffering is a good thing.

BUT, here is where the scenarios diverge.

To end (more like mitigate) suffering for the Tsunami victims we don't have to bomb anything, kill anyone, imprison anyone or put our citizens in a situation where others are actively trying to kill them.”

“Thanks for explaining your view HPM. You were the only one who even tried to answer my questions and you didn't even try to indoctrinate me in the process. You didn’t even assume I am heartless or assume that my questions meant I don’t think any money or help should go to them. I appreciate that.”

“I'm a "It's a half a glass of water" guy.”

“LOL! That’s a good way to stay pragmatic HPM. I think everyone’s just getting their panties in a wad and trying to make it out like we aren’t going to do our part because we have checks and balances in place to limit our ability to release unlimited funds immediately. You would think we have planes full of supplies sitting on the tarmac that can do anything because we haven’t pledged $100 billion dollars or they can’t take off until the check clears the bank. I mean, it’s not like the $35 million wouldn’t cover ops until congress reconvenes and releases more funds.”

“Correct me if I am wrong but I seem to remember reading at CNN that the 35mil number is a bit misleading number to latch onto because that number is the cash outlay only. It doesn't take into account the manpower being used nor the physical goods being sent.

Could it be larger? Sure it can.
Should it be larger? I tend to think so.

I find the donation one-upsmanship going on between nations to be highly distastful and arrogant but at least more help is being sent rather than less.”

“"Every cent the government spends comes from taxation."

LOL! Somebody hasn't been reading the news. How about the 1/2 trillion a year that the Bush administration is getting from borrowing!”

“I'm trying to find the picture I saw last night that showed one of the tsunami victims wearing an Osama bin laden t-shirt.

I want my tax dollars going to people who want Americans dead.”

“Can I ask why we don't have a nation building corps in this country to act as a counterpart to the military?

It could be filled with water specialists, engineers, food distributers, heavy-machine operators, police trainers, teachers, interpreters. It would be a standing force comparable to a couple of Army divisions.

They would drill on entering a chaotic place and bringing order quickly.

The military could blow things up and provide security. The "Freedom Corps" could start helping to build a new society.

Or is this impractical for some reason?”

“It sounds very reasonable to me. I think it was Kucinich that was floating an idea similar to that several months ago.

But, I believe I remember Bush stressing that he doesn't beoieve in nation building during one of the 2000 debates.

Or did he change his mind?”

“I wasn't aware that everyone hit by the Tsunami was a Osama supporter.
last edited: 12/31/04 10:59:59 AM”

“They're not. Don't sweat it!”

“Damn scarcasm font.”

“I am all for giving money to the tsunami victims. Since we are so fortunate to have so much I think it'd be a horror if we didnt help. Thats what makes America great, our charity and compassion. $35 million is a drop in our fiscal budget. But will provide a huge bit of aid to those it reaches. For those who think its not enough...send more, its all needed.

I'd love to see Kerry give his $20 million to the victims. Call me a cynic but I just dont think it'll happen. Think of the botox and tanning beds that'd buy.

RL, since you mentioned it I agree that since we are defacto nation builders (contrary to what GW has said) I am all for a "nation building corps". I just hope we'd pay em more then our soldiers. If not we'd have a small pool of workers to pick from. I cant imagine a teacher working for $1500 a month pretax when our local teachers max at well over $5000 a month.”

“I remember being taught eons ago about "doing good works".

I don't care if the guy is wearing a
t-shirt that says, "Your Momma Sucks &@$!* In Hell".
I'll help him.

Those of you who don't wont to can stay home and polish your guns.

(sarcasm font, please)”

“I remember being taught eons ago about "doing good works".

I don't care if the guy is wearing a
t-shirt that says, "Your Momma Sucks &@$!* In Hell".
I'll help him.

Those of you who don't wont to can stay home and polish your guns.

(sarcasm font, please)”

“The soldiers are the ones that are underpaid.”

“MarkO, Your mama sucks cocks in hell.


Now give me $20.00”

“Word has it that Sweden has 2,500 citizens missing and they are kickin' in 75,000,000.

This from a country of 9,000,000.

Dang socialists!!”

“So who's worse, yo momma or Osama???”

“Wasn't some of RL's thinking behind the Peace Corps?”

“CNN is reporting that the US is upping our aid amount from 35 mil to 350 mil.”

“Birch - is that $1500 for a beginning E-1? Does it include BAQ and VHA, etc? Starting out with 30 days vacation per year (if you can ever take it) and free medical and dental should be factored in. Not debating, just curious. I started out in '63 at $78 per month with all the powdered scrambled eggs I could eat. It speaks sadly of where I came from, but it seemed like a good deal at the time. After 27 years of service the deal is much sweeter. My apologies for going somewhat off topic.”