Aerial hunting of Alaskan Wolves! Barbar ic!!

“Was she getting any?

I really don't think there's a single documented case of this in NA.
last edited: 1/04/05 2:51:38 PM”

“Controversial threads are FUEGO, IMHO.
StoveStomper

waxless vs. waxable x-country skis

bivies vs. tents vs. tarps

alcohol stoves vs. white gas vs. canisters

sneakers vs. boots vs. sandals

delorme' vs. ng topo

the list goes on and on...

all fuego, SS ?”

“Trimming vs natural

LNT vs leaving TP
last edited: 1/04/05 2:57:40 PM”

“lol

no controversy there.

natural= yuk”

“Uh oh. Might start a fuego on that!”

“Lets make that sometime this year SS.”

“LOL”

“see I don't know, it's a tough question. Sure it would take an idiot to want to go up in a chapper and shoot wolves, but should we be intervening anyway. I'd have to see more details about whether the cull is necessary. There are often more motives to this than meets the eye.”

“4 o'clock

well, i gotta go home now.

stomper, could you maybe put together an official list for me tonight?

you know, all things that you find controversial so that i might know in the future what to include in fuego?

i'll look for it tomorrow morning, 8am sharp.

thanks.


(j/k) ;)”

“Thanks Ewker! Now, does this seem like a contradiction or do I need more coffee?

"Biologists assume when a wolf attacks a human that there must be something wrong with the wolf. It's either been in captivity or its sick or whatever. They don't examine the evidence in an unbiased manner or use historical tests.

Historically there are four reasons for wolf attacks on humans:

Disease such as rabies.

Extreme hunger.

Familiarity/Disposition - This is an either/or situation. Familiarity is the zoo setting, captive wolves, etc. Disposition is a particularly aggressive wolf which may not fear man as most wolves do.

In the heat of the chase and kill - This is where the hiker, trapper or whoever disturbs a fresh chase and kill by wolves. The person walks into the scene only to be attacked by the wolves."

Now I understand "heat of the chase" and most biologist do to.
This site seems somewhat "biased" against biologists, no?
last edited: 1/04/05 3:07:08 PM”

“sacco - I HEARBY DECLARE ALL POSTS BY YOU AS FUEGO!!! ;-)”

“Hi Madeintohoe, what sort of puppy you got on the webpage there? - welcome to TT. It gets a little rough in here at times, it's not mean-spirited though :o) .”

“that site has lots of contradictions on it...lol”

“We're less mean to babes that post pics. In fact, we become puppy dogs to babes with pics.”

“Why does everyone continue to mention the thinning the herd issue. Were making an assumption of the analysis by the proper authorities. I know it not a popular idea but in most ecosystems a designated number of whatever (predators, prey, etc.) can be removed without adverse effects. Only in a few habitats is the balance so intricate that species or environmental degradation occurs when a portion is removed. Determination of the portion is where the scientific analysis becomes crucial.”

“That's what I meant by seeing more details.”

“trailhound - no offense to you but that's extremly presumptious that we think we know what the "right number" should be.

We can not know what the right number is. Especially since "we" seem to think the only numbers that matter are the top species of the food chain.

Let me say again: Like the earth system, in an ecosystem there is never "too much" of anything. The system is an equillibrium between organic and inorganic. The system can/does/will take care of itself.

Now the biggest harm one can do to an ecosystem is to remove matter. Which we do way too much.

Our planets ecosystems seem to be turning into little zoos that we must take care of. The fact that it is happening in Alaska is disheartening for me.
last edited: 1/05/05 8:43:26 AM”

“trailhound - no offense to you but that's extremly presumptious that we think we know what the "right number" should be.

We can not know what the right number is. Especially since "we" seem to think the only numbers that matter are the top species of the food chain.

Let me say again: Like the earth system, in an ecosystem there is never "too much" of anything. The system is an equillibrium between organic and inorganic. The system can/does/will take care of itself.

Now the biggest harm one can do to an ecosystem is to remove matter. Which we do way too much.

Our planets ecosystems seem to be turning into little zoos that we must take care of. The fact that it is happening in Alaska is disheartening for me.
last edited: 1/05/05 8:43:26 AM”
Bearmagnet

The "right number" as you described is fine as long the determination is defined by an adequate analysis. In general, the same analysis is use to reintroduce a species back into the wild. You mentioned we can not know what the right number is since "we" seem to think the only numbers that matter are the top species of the food chain, that’s not true. I've seen a gov't project come to a complete halt because of a rare weed that had no value on the flora, fauna, soil, etc. Also, I don't fully agree that the biggest harm done to the environment is removing matter. So many more factors and to be honest mankind has not began to scratched the surface of understand the environment. I will tell you a little fact that most anti hunters don't like to hear. A sports animal has one of the best chances of surviving and adapting to a changing environment. There are hundreds of examples and of course a few exceptions. The southeastern whitetail is an amazing example. Of course, the southeastern quail suffered because more folks began to manage for deer and cows.”

“RE: Shooting from fixed wing.


Yup. That is EXACTLY how it is done. This is not a new phenomena in Alaska. Until it was discontinued (not sure when) there was a bounty on wolf pelts.


The easiest and most efficient way to find, scare into the open, get running and kill a wolf in the vast vast expanses of open tundra was to search from a small bush plane, spot the wolf pack, chase it, and gun them down from the plane.


I distinctly remember an exhibit, with pictures at the little museum in Talkeetna.


The bush pilot culture is EXTREMELY strong in AK. They are incredibly proud of the stupid things they can do in small aircraft. I can stil see the picture and caption in my mind of the bush pilot outside his plane with wolf pelts.

He had shotguns (not rifles), firing slugs I assume, strapped under the wings that he had rigged so that he could fire them from the cockpit.

It was a one man operation, not a passenger hanging out of the cockpit taking pot shots.

I remember it because it struck me how tough it must be to aim .. . .yet the kill ratio and effiecieny was extremely high.


Thta is the entire controversy. Not hunting in killing wolves in a traditional way .. .but driving them into the open with airplanes and killing them from the air.



It is the invention of that method which caused the decimation of the wolf population back in the . . ..60s and 70s that led to the discontinuation of the pelt bounty and illegalization of hunting from the air.”

“I did a quick Google.


Looks like a combination of shoot from air and land and shoot.


Hunters will be allowed to land and shoot or shoot from airplanes in Unit 19D East and Unit 19A near Aniak, while hunters in Unit 13 in the Nelchina Basin and Unit 16B will be allowed only to land and shoot.”

“Wow, that is surprising! After spending 4 months there last year I must say, only in AK. However, I still have no problem with it as long as there are bag limits and adequate restrictions, which is an entirely different matter than what this thread is about. A dead wolf is a dead wolf no matter how its killed and anyone who going beyond their bag limit is a poacher.”

“IMHO - We are in a situation where it makes sense to "manage" wild life. Land and resources for wild life have become limited. Extinction is more likely than it once was, because numbers and range for most wild mammal species have decreased. Wolf populations, uncontrolled will come into increasing conflict with humans as they look for food.

Obviously part of the issue is human hunters competing with the wolves.

In my thinking, the whole intersection of human activity and wildlife needs to be managed better. I'm hoping there are creative solutions that haven't been tried, or even thought of, yet.

I don't know the specifics of this partiocular cull all that well, but I think that - at least for now - some culls are probably necessary.

Here in Massachusetts, wolves were wiped out long ago - but some wild species, like geese are out of control (maybe because the predators are all gone). As much as some people love the wild geese, I see a need for culling - or selective hunting or something.”

“Agreed, adequate habitat management is often a problem on an area scale. Alabama just recently opened a wild area (if I remember correctly) for a hunt that had become a deer vacation spot. The results were a win win situation for both the area management and hunters. Many intercity parks have become waterfowl. HA!”

“Aren't there other species that deserve more attention than these wolves. Cuz I honestly don't see were taking 500 out of that pop. is gonna really hurt the them.

I guess relocation of these wolves is not cost effective.

Were are the tears for our closest wild relatives or the Wild Dogs of Africa and the Cheetah that could be gone from the wild by 2013.”

“BR - b/c this is a wolf thread?

No one answered my question so let me try a few different ones: Is it not sad that we feel compeled to "manage" the wolf population in Alaska? What is the human population? How many out of state hunters come to Alaska?

I could be completely ignorant of the situation so please, educate me.

How the #&%!$ does the wolf population get so big in Alaska that we have to manage it?”

“the population doesn't seem so excessive compared to the size of Alaska. Do they manage wolf populations this way in Canada?”

“We assume the right to manage the wolf population, yet fail to even attempt to manage the human population, which IMO is much more likely to kill our planet.”

“Again, I don't think this is a management issue. Don't know the numbers but enough sportsmen come to AK for there to be a significant positive impact on the economy. I really don't know how to answer your question about the wolf population because the state of AK is almost 2.5 times the state of TX. Not an overall pop issue but a AK regional issue which is also larger that most Southeastern states. Obviously, the issue has significance with the dollar, no doubt.”

“Maybe Alaska is full of Canadian Hunters wanting to shoot wolves? That and Texans.”

“Sure, I suspected there was political pressure to open up this "market" - I guess they then worked out the numbers based on what was supposedly "sustainable" then come up with some spin about Reindeer and Moose populations.”

“Alaska has about 640,000 residents occupying 570,374 square miles, or 365,039,104 acres of land. Alaska is the largest state, about 2.3 times the size of Texas and about one-fifth the size of the Lower 48 states

with 7,500-10,000 wolves!

Well damn, that's a wolf/50-75 sqmiles!

How'd this get so out of hand in such a small peice of real estate?

We best kill 'em all now before they overrun Alaska!”

“The board will consider wolf control when:

wolf predation is a factor in an unacceptable decline in prey population size or productivity;

wolf predation is a factor preventing recovery of a low density prey population; or

wolf predation is a factor preventing attainment of approved population or human use objectives

Source: http://www.wildlife.alaska.gov/management/fur/wolf-pol.cfm


Very Nice, Alaska”

“I want you all to know that I posted this thread with good intentions & to bring awareness to this. Anything to do with animal issues is very serious to me, and Is a very sensitive issue for me personally. Stovestomper, I can't help it I did take it very personal..maybe more so because of this particular topic. I also did not think I was a so called newbie as you call it..I know I have been only registered less then a year, but I have posted a few other post & also have made comments on some...but that is okay by me to be a newbie :) I kinda like it! And I accept your apology & I thank you for it.

To Y2... the precious puppy you see is an Alaskan Malamute..she is very very cute indeed..we have her mother and sister & brother..our good friends are the proud owners of Blazie..which live here in Tahoe too..so we can see her whenever we like, which is so nice.
I know you are all not mean spirited people.

Bearmagnet...I too would like to know how many out of state hunters go to Alaska to hunt..and yes man should let nature do it's own thing...at least we should try 1st before interfering in nature..we need to have more confidence and a lot more respect for the natural world. I really believe that the planet is stressed out because man has messed with it for so long..and because of that the animals, plants are all changing.

le Subtil...I agree with you totally..it is the human world population that will kill the planet..and is already doing so.

To Briar Rabbit...I do feel for the cheetahs & wild dogs of Africa..it is a very sad thing I know.
The relocation I have mixed feelings about..I do not like the idea of an animal having to be taken out of his or her home, I do not think that is fair...only under server cases would I feel okay about relocation & if it was going to be in the interest of the animal..to make it's life better.

Im sure all of you can tell from my statements..that I do not agree with the killing of wolves in any hunting method one uses. Only under very very SEVER cases should any wolf have to loose it's life..and as I mentioned earlier it would have to be done in a very humane and non-cruel way.
Thanks for everyones comment! I do appreciate it, and I respect everyones own opinion”

“That's very nice of you madeintahoe and I respect you greatly for your civility.

I, on the other hand, say killing wolves for bull#&%!$ reasons is bull#&%!$ and would love to kick anyones ass who does it!

And the Alaska gov can kiss my Frikken ass for the way the worded there bull#&%!$ argument. As in "a" factor.

That gives those #&%!$s an open season on wolves.

Goodnight.”

“Tahoe thought so - here's my Mal http://www.thebackpacker.com/pictures/pic/kckbr4vwhk9.php”

“Good morning

Y2...oh I thank you for posting your picture of your beauty...how old? Female or male?

She or he is so beautiful..she has a beautiful mask I think. Is this your 1st malamute? Aren't they just wonderful..I bet you love her so much..I keep calling her a she..so maybe she is a she? and she looks pretty big to me.
Thank you..I loved seeing her picture!

Thank you bearmagnet..It is very frustrating, And what is worst is that most of this hunting is on federal public lands, which you and I and all US citizens each own & pay federal taxes for..which really upsets me..I do not want my federal tax money to help fund the killing of wolves or any wildlife...and it makes me sick to know that my tax money helps it, it is just not right”