Thinning out the herd

“good one. where do we start?”

“I *Heart* Calvin & Hobbes.”

“i know a guy that used to say hunting is not a sport. if the deer had guns too, well now then it would be a sport.”

“when both sides have similar weapons, whether guns or spears or swords, it is called war, not sport. An humans have done that through recorded history, and are still doing it.

When a predator like a tiger, jaguar, or mountain lion uses superior strength and weapons to kill something to eat it is called hunting. Why should we call it anything different when a human adopts tools to give themselves a similar advantage.
Like the tiger we cannot run as fast, see or hear as well. We use stealth and knowledge of prey to get into a position where we can ambush them, kill them, and eat them.

Some animals hunt collaboratively, lions, wolves, hunt as a pack. Some drive the prey to others lying in ambush, or pass as a relay to fresh runners like hyenas and African hunting dogs. No different from a human hunting drive.

Why is it OK for animals but not OK for humans ? as long as the humans are eating meat why shouldn't they catch it.

Or do you prefer the concentration/extermination camp model to get your meat from factories?.
Does a sheep, cow, or pig somehow have less feelings than a deer.”

“easy manuka.
i'm pro-hunting. i was just quoting an old friend - who was BTW, was also a hunter.

just thought it was funny.”

“Calvin and Hobbes is always funny.

My response was to Baume66, who can start anytime at the nearest Marine recruiting office.”

“Well then I'll take this one, sacco. ;)

Or do you prefer the concentration/extermination camp model to get your meat from factories?.
Does a sheep, cow, or pig somehow have less feelings than a deer.”
manuka
11:12:42 AM
1/10/05

I haven't consumed Factory red meat since the mid 90's, partially because I think it's cruel. Last summer while out West I enjoyed Elk and Bison, all from local hunters.

Then again, the Bison get whacked for crossing the line, not sure I agree with that.

Now they seem to be killing wolves for hunters in Alaska.

I'll go back to factory bred food. Well, not personally.

such a complicated world.”

“BM, pork is considered white meat, and chicken farms are amongst the most inhumane.

The argument against red meat is mainly the risk of heart attack in humans getting insufficient exercise.”

“only trailtalkers could turn a calvin and hobbes strip into borderline fuego”

“I know. Hey folks, it's all in fun! Don't take it so seriously. I'm sure Baume66 was being facetious.”

“I dunno. I used to be against hunting until I saw the sheer number of deer out there. I guess that's what happens if you take all the predators out.
Give me free-range organic meat of any type over intensely farmed any day.
I find the taste of organic food so much better. It also amazed me that the skin on organic chickens is actually a different color to battery farmed. Organic eggs, what amazes me is the shells are so much stronger that intensely farmed ones, and the yolks are not as yellow.”

“We have deer, bear, rabbit, and duck seasons, when is opening day for tourist season?
8D”

“don't eat pork or chicken anymore. close to weaning myself off of eggs, as much as possible.

there's a new book out about the extinction of civilizations and the environmental factors behind them. Although Malthus & Ehrlich were incorrect in some of their doomsday predictions, some of what they said wasn't far off. The author supposedly makes a strong case for too many humans and not enough land as a major factor behind the Rwanda genocide.”

“Actually, if there is a serious message in there, it is human overpopulation - what do we do about it? The same rules of species survival apply to humans as apply to animals. Habitat depletion will increasingly become a serious problem in the decades immediately ahead. With our wisdom, thinning the herd does not have to be a hunting issue.”

“Let the culling begin. Overpopulation would cause disease I would think. If you are in favor of culling the herd, you'd better be willing to end up culled.”

“I am a Scientist with experience in culling, therefore much needed to perform the cull.”

“Start by using BIG SUV's for target practice.........with an RPG.”

“And in order for us to survive I would imagine we would have to cull 10 males for every female.”

“Ok, so's I don't offend anyone, I'm not anti-hunting, although I'm personally more of a gatherer...

I agree that the definition of hunting applies, but I fail to see the "sport" in some of the hunting I've witnessed. Often it seems like hunters climb up a tree, sit and wait for an animal to walk past and shoot it. Not very "sporting" IMHO. That's why I think hand-to-antler combat would spice up the hunting world.

As for hunting for population control, sonething sure needs to be done. I see dozens of deer killed on the road in our area, which is not only bad for the deer (very bad) but the property damage and personal injury to people is also terrible. It does seem to me, however, that we develop the foraging areas, sprawl our cities and suburbs into the woods, then say "Their overpopulating, looks like we need to kill more of them". Of course, the option is to start controlling our own population, which ain't happennin', so whattaya gonna do? I think as long as the hunting isn't cruel, as in make sure you kill what you shoot and use it, it's ok, although, again, I'm a gatherer. I'd rather spend my time in the woods watching nature, not dragging it by the feet down the mountain, but that's just me.

Oh yea, and I thought the 'toon was funny, also.”

“LOL! that's a good one, Geo!

DO you guys think pork is white meat? i know that's what the commercial wants you to think. i've always thought of "red meat" as any meat from a mammal.”

“actually, i used to think "red meat" meant it was from anything warm-blooded, but then Tarpy made fun of me for thinking chickens were cold-blooded. sheesh, who knew!”

“how many people can you name that would not be here today if it weren't for medical advancements seen in the last 100yrs?”

“Well, all the hunting stuff aside - in answer to baume66;

Lets start with the lawyers?”

“Red meat is red because that animal has more blood pumping through it. That's it, extra bloody meat. Generally, size matters and species matters. But for one fun example:

Ostrich is Red Meat.”

“mmmmmmm blood”

“hmmm, strange.”

“that goes for both bearmagnet AND crash bang. LOL!”

“I agree that the definition of hunting applies, but I fail to see the "sport" in some of the hunting I've witnessed. Often it seems like hunters climb up a tree, sit and wait for an animal to walk past and shoot it. Not very "sporting" IMHO.

athikerol
11:20:53 AM
1/10/05

Understanding how prey behaves and using that knowledge to ambush the prey is practiced by most predators. Cats and crocodiles ambush at the water hole where the animals have to drink.

Leopards hunt by dropping from a tree.
Humans are just adopting the more successful techniques they observe in others.

The tree stand is a very ethical method of hunting as the bullet will go into the ground, rather than travel on for a mile killing (or worse maiming) something unintended.

Being killed by a well placed bullet or arrow has got to be better than having guts ruptured by a car and dying in pain from peritonitis over the next 5 to 36 hours.

I really do not look on any activity where one of the participants is expected to die as a sport.

I hunt because I like to eat meat. I like to be in the woods with the challenge of outguessing what the deer is going to do. I do not pack hunt (drive deer) I always go out solo, checking the ground for clues of where the deer will go, and where I should be to get a shot.

I much prefer archery because it presents 2 additional challenges, I have to be within 30 yards, and I have to move by drawing the bow when the deer is within 30 yards without the deer noticing.

If you have to describe hunting as a sport, I lose (no deer) much more often than I win.”

“"Leopards hunt by dropping from a tree.
Humans are just adopting the more successful techniques they observe in others."
manuka
12:38:00 PM
1/10/05

Of course, cats, crocs & leopards don't carry rifles, meaning they have to get up-close and personal to get their meal.

"Being killed by a well placed bullet or arrow has got to be better than having guts ruptured by a car and dying in pain from peritonitis over the next 5 to 36 hours."

manuka
12:38:00 PM
1/10/05

Exactly what I was saying!

Again, I don't have any problem with responsible hunters. I find them to have more respect for the wilderness than most weekenders I meet. I grew up in the country, a regular farm boy, hunting whatever was in season, deer, squirrel, rabbit, dove, quail, etc. For me, though, the more I hiked and saw the beauty of nature, the less I wanted to be responsible for taking a life, even if it was a tasty one. I think deer are much prettier in the woods than on a plate. AGAIN, just my opinion. Without hunters, maybe animals would starve & die from disease due to overpopulation.

If I happen to meet you hunting in the woods, you can bet I'll wish you well (of course, I'll also wish the deer well under my breath, but I'll mean it to both of you).”

“How am I strange? I just explained why meat is red or white.”

“Damn Nazi meat-eaters! LMAO”

“It's just strange that you KNOW that ostrich is red meat.... we won't ask, though...”

“Sign in a local gun shop..

"If it's tourist season, why can't we shoot'em?"”

“I'll go slow.

Any large land-locked bird is going to be "red". Look at the size of those legs and how fast those suckers run!

Size and running speed requires mucho oxygen. Mucho oxygen requires mucho.....................blood.

Hence......RED MEAT.

That and anyone who's ever had an Ostrich burger will tell you it's red meat.

Duh.”

“i heard that it doesn't taste like chicken either!”

“Tastes more like Buffalo
.
last edited: 1/10/05 7:57:33 PM”

“Is eating Ostrich rare? It was kind of "in" in the late 90's. Has no one seen an Ostrich farm?”

“There's a place that sells Emu oil...just saw it today.”

“What? You have to oil emus? No wonder mine keep breaking down!”

“Actually seen studies where they say plants react to pain too. Put meters on plants they were about to trim & the meters reacted.”

“Jeez Geo, you're such a #&%!$ stirrer!!”

“Hunting is cruel, plants feel pain, (insert other panty-waisted whining here),...Soylent Green anyone?”

“WTF, we have an "edit this message" function and instant html buttons?”

“All life "reacts" to pain. But generally only in tha Animal Kingdom does an individual think:

"Ow. That really sucked."

Stickman: Welcome back?
last edited: 1/11/05 8:49:11 AM”

“So can we get back to population control?

I'm curious to hear some arguements on what could be done. Because it really does not seem to be a plight here as it is in some other nations.

Again,,how many people can you name that would not be here today if it weren't for medical advancements seen in the last 100yrs?”

“i didn't mean you were strange, i meant that the fact that ostrich meat is red is strange! now crash bang, i DID mean he is strange.
:-D

sorry, didnt' phrase that very well.”

“you shouldn't hustle people strange to you,
even if you do have a custom made 2 piece pool cue.”

“BR - The population is controlled. No nead for artificial controls.”

“I work in a sport store that sells all kinds of hunting/fishing supplies... guns, scents, scent blockers, tree stands etc. Personally I don't hunt animals... the only thing I'd shoot (yes I do own many guns) to kill is another human. They way I figure it is the human should be smart enough to know if he's intentionally doing something that threatens the life of my family or myself, and he should know I'll do whatever I have to in order to defend them/me.

The poor animal is just being an animal... and I'll do everything I can to stay out of their way.

But as many have said, I too have NO Problem with hunters as long as they kill ONLY what they'll eat and eat EVERYTHING they kill. I tell my SCUBA students the same thing when they go spear fishing or lobster/scallop hunting. Take only what you'll eat and and eat everything you take!

lyra: "DO you guys think pork is white meat? i know that's what the commercial wants you to think. i've always thought of "red meat" as any meat from a mammal."

Capt.Jim: If it is warm blooded (like humans), breathes air (like humans) and gives birth to living young (like humans) then it a mammal... and I don't eat it. I try to live/eat with minimal impact on the environment in mind.


Bearmagnet: "Red meat is red because that animal has more blood pumping through it. That's it, extra bloody meat. Generally, size matters and species matters. But for one fun example: Ostrich is Red Meat."

Capt.Jim: so is the Sea Turtle. Warm blooded and breathes air but doesn't give birth to living young... it lays eggs so I used to eat it years ago... taste like beef. Great in tomato based recipies like Swiss Steak. Stopped eating it too though because of the decline in population that even I noticed diving over the last 30 years.


manuka: "I much prefer archery because it presents 2 additional challenges, I have to be within 30 yards, and I have to move by drawing the bow when the deer is within 30 yards without the deer noticing. If you have to describe hunting as a sport, I lose (no deer) much more often than I win."

Capt.Jim: much agree with you manuka. This is closer to what some people might call a sport with similar weaponry. Nothing sporting about sitting 300 - 600 yards off with a high powered rifle downing an elk. The thing is dead before it even hears the sound! Archers need to be much closer & more stealthy.

Just my 2 cents...

Peace,
CJ”