Iraqi Insurgents Adopting CIA Tactics... LOL

“Oh man this just cracks me up...

Iraqi Freedom Fighters Create & Distribute English Language Video Telling U.S. Military to Lay Down Their Weapons and Seek Refuge in Homes & Mosques

http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=652858


Tooo funny.


Iraq rebels in video taunt
Wed Jan 12, 2005 03:05 PM GMT
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By Michael Georgy

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Departing from fiery Islamic slogans, Iraqi guerrillas have launched a propaganda campaign with an English-language video urging U.S. troops to lay down their weapons and seek refuge in mosques and homes.

The video, narrated in fluent English by what sounded like an Iraqi educated in the United States or Britain, also mocked the U.S. president's challenge to rebels in the early days of the insurgency to 'bring it on'.

"George W. Bush; you have asked us to 'bring it on'. And so help me, (we will) like you never expected. Do you have another challenge?," asked the narrator before the video showed explosions around a U.S. military Humvee vehicle.

Threats intended to demoralise and frighten in the tense build up to elections at the end of the month were tempered with invitations to desert and escape retribution.

A masked guerrilla from an unknown group called the Islamic Jihad Army, eschewing past impassioned Arabic-language threats of holy war, told U.S. soldiers: "This is not your war, nor are you fighting for a true cause in Iraq."

"To the American soldiers we say you can also choose to fight tyranny with us. Lay down your weapons and seek refuge in our mosques, churches and homes. We will protect you," he said.

There was no way of verifying the authenticity of the video obtained by Reuters.

Previous insurgent videos have been dominated by grisly beheadings of foreign hostages who kneel beside radical Islamic banners before their deaths.

The Islamic Jihad Army video featured familiar scenes of guerrillas blowing up U.S. convoys but also highlighted some of the key issues of the Iraq war, from weapons of mass destruction to the September 11, 2001 attacks on the United States.

"We have not crossed the oceans and seas to occupy Britain or the U.S. nor are we responsible for 9/11. These are only a few of these lies that these criminals present to cover their true plans," said the narrator, apparently referring to the Bush administration's assertion of a link between Saddam Hussein and those attacks.

A masked speaker with a machine gun beside him delivered his message to triumphant music with the ring of U.S. military propaganda films during World War Two.

He said the enemy was on the run as the video showed guerrillas firing on U.S. convoys, standing beside the corpse of an American soldier, or loading a large shell for an attack.

The U.S. military has said it would stay in Iraq until the country is by its definition secure.

The rebels focused on political issues that divided the United States and its European allies over the war in Iraq while reminding troops of casualties with images of burning trucks.

"We also thank France, Germany and other states for their positions, which we need to say are considered wise and valid until now," said the narrator, who also urged economic warfare against Washington.

"Stop using the U.S. dollar. Use the Euro or a basket of currencies," he said on the video dated December 10, 2004.

At least 1,067 U.S. troops have died in combat since the start of the war that toppled Saddam Hussein in 2003.
last edited: 1/12/05 10:29:23 AM”

“TT, just exactly who's side are you on?
last edited: 1/12/05 10:37:01 AM”

“Now, who went and stirred up all that trouble in Iraq?

PeckerHEAD, he's just reporting what others are saying.

Why do you hate your country?
last edited: 1/12/05 10:39:15 AM”

“LOL! Good one Buddha!”

“Americans being killed and Buddha thinks it's funny.

I don't hate my country. I served in the first gulf war with the 1st Infantry Division.”

“Ultra... I'm against tyranny.. and that means I'm anti-Bush ;)

There have been a bunch of articles about the insurgency, and an awful lot of them running it are university and engineering students from University of Baghdad and other places.”

“I was just watching a documentary on The Military Channel about 1st ID's race into Bagdad. Very neat!”

“Ultra.. it's your decisions and political support that have led to the Americans getting killed... I opposed all this B.S. from day 1.

I also want all the money back Jr. is throwing away. All the defense contractors and Bush-linked companies need to make reparations to the American people for the financial harm they have done to the budget.
last edited: 1/12/05 10:47:20 AM”

“Persians are sexy as Hell.”

“Yippee Nigal...it's a TV war. Cool! Neato! Did the good guys win?

BM.....Tell me about these Persians.”

“I believe President Bush is doing the right thing in Iraq. He saw Saddam and his sons as a future threat to the United States.”

“I have yet to meet a Persian who did not resemble a Goddess. Beautiful Black hair, nice dark olive skin tone, perfect/proportional facial features with striking eyes. Never too thin or too big..........perky breasts.....beutiful butt........now if I can somehow remember her name, methinks I might have to focus on the CaliPersian Intern.”

“> “I believe President Bush is doing the
> right thing in Iraq. He saw Saddam and his
> sons as a future threat to the United States.”

Well, that wasn't the view of the CIA in October before the war when Tenet and others stood up and gave their threat assessment of Iraq/Saddam which was broadcast on C-SPAN.

Their October assessment (before Jr. had decided to attack Iraq) was this:

"Iraq and Saddam are a low security
threat unless they are cornered."

Then Jr. made the decision to invade Iraq in January, and after that Tenet changed his tune (didn't have much choice as CIA director, LOL).

While the CIA has been scape-goated in this mess, every non-politicized paper and every non-political assessment they made pre-war has been accurate about Iraq, unbelievably so.

They even called 9/11 30 days before and pinned it to a week, which is simply unbelievable.

There does not exist any material evidence *anywhere* that indicates Saddam had any plans to attack the United States or anything else. Nor does it even make any sense, given that we are his largest customer, we armed him, and we helped him to come to power.

There does not exist even a single speech by Saddam critical of America. He was critical about the Bush families policies and the sanctions, but not once did he criticize America. In fact, the only speeches we've got on record (that you can find on the Internet) related to the subject of America specifically are deep praise Saddam had for "the hard-working American people who build such amazing products."

Then there is the oil-need issue, i.e., "oil-security" and more largely, the control of oil pricing issue. Saddam kept oil prices dirt cheap (so as not to create an incentive to overthrow him), amusingly, this angered the Houston-contingent of oil monopolies because they didn't supply enough to have any real control of oil pricing, and they hated the low oil prices and the fact that they had to compete with cheap arab oil. It's always been this way going back to '91.

And if one looks at the "oil security" issue as a legitimate security issue, it is very useful to note that we haven't invested a damn thing in solar hydrogen, despite the fact that yet it works in the lab. And of the money we have invest in it, we've given it to the f*cking oil monopolies!!

They are all pushing a 'centralized hydrogen economy' so they can charge us by the month for it, to replace the money we pay monthly to natural gas, electric, and everything else, but, amusingly, a centralized hydrogen economy doesn't work. It's very hard to transport hydrogen over long-distances.

The only viable option is a distributed hydrogen economy where we generate H from water by splitting the H2O using sunlight like they are doing in the lab (and like plants do every day all around us).

But in a distributed hydrogen economy...

- There are no more oil companies.
- There are no more electric companies.
- There are no more natural gas companies.

... and we don't have to pay a damn thing to the group of energy monopolists and pig racqueteers that keep Jr. in office.”

“LOL! Good one Buddha!”

“Thanks for the information, TailTurtle.

Bio-diesel could be part of a "distributed"-fuel" economy too, keeping it out of the hands of corporate thieves who set prices.

Family farms could have a stable income from fuel seed crops at true market-based prices.
last edited: 1/12/05 1:02:47 PM”

“Well... I think Trail Turtle didn't simply report facts. If you noticed, his thread title was punctuated byu an "LOL". That moves it from reporting to gloating or enjoying.

As much as I disagree with Ultrapecker's poliics - I think he has a legitimate question. I assume that he is not on the Iraqi anti-US insurgents side, but I don't know.

I tend to agree with Trail Turle's specific points more often than not, but when he uses the term "anti-Bush" to describe himself an the insurgents (terrorist and otherwise) in Iraq and adds and adds an LOL to this thread title, it does raise questions.

(BTW: I do not think Trail Turtle is Buddha)”

“I don't know if you saw the articles on it, but we dropped pamphlets saying exactly the same thing to the Iraqis!

It *IS* hilarious... I don't have any doubts that video is going to be the joke of Baghdad among the Iraqis.

Funny how it's 'smart warfare and psy-ops' when we do it, but when they do it back to us (and have a far more effective message) and I laugh at the irony in it, somehow that is immorale.

This country is SOOOO f*cked up right now!”

“Someone should play the video for Bush... maybe it'll cause him to attack a chair with his face while choking on a pretzel again, LOL.

(Because the defribillator story HAS to be a conspiracy theory doesn't it?)
last edited: 1/12/05 1:56:35 PM”

“Your right, there is humor in the turnabout... and it is reasonable to laugh about realities that are pretty grim. If your humor doesn't get you through the hard stuff, then it has let you down. Still, I think ultrapeckers question was legitimate - just as I think calling the Iraqi insurgents "anti-bush" fighters is to misname things (I also think they are not all terrorists, though many obviously are. And lastly, many are not fighting to stop democracy).”

“Funny how it's 'smart warfare and psy-ops' when we do it, but when they do it back to us (and have a far more effective message) and I laugh at the irony in it, somehow that is immorale.

The problem is, your thread title and susbsequent drivel point to the fact that you are pleased with anything that causes our troops more hardship. You think the tactics the terrorists use against our troops are commendable. Why do you hate your fellow Americans who are going in harm's way? You think what the "insurgents" are doing to American servicemen is hilarious. I'm sure there are many military families who would disagree with you. You're a first class a s s h o l e.
And Mark, the fact that you would defend this prick disappoints me. I've always liked you despite the political differences. JO doesn't surprise me, but I would think that you being a former military man, you would take exception to this.
Edited to get around the language filter.
last edited: 1/12/05 3:01:11 PM”

“Actually... I found the video!

Unbelievable piece of work I have to say, LOL.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7468.htm”

“>You think the tactics the terrorists use
> against our troops are commendable.

I have yet to find a Bush supporter who has even once "said what I say" and gotten anything even close to hitting the mark of what I think.

I look at these things purely in terms of body counts of uninvolved people, and the Iraqi Survey Group says Jr. has killed 100,000 innocent people.

Some will quickly say, "well Saddam killed 400,000", but, unfortunately, that was also a lie, the source for the number was an estimate based on mass graves and they've dug them up and found 5k-15k dead, the majority of which were Iranians from the Iran/Iraq war (which we supported Saddam in).

SRC: P.M. Admits Graves Claim 'Untrue'
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/politics/story/0,6903,1263830,00.html

>Why do you hate your fellow Americans who are
>going in harm's way?

I don't like at all what they are doing to the troops, 3/4s of them are poor kids who love their country and don't have money for college (Jr. needs 50,000 more troops, did you know as one of his first acts of office in his second term he cut low-income Pell grants for 150,000 students...?? ... sounds like a good way to create more military recruits!).

It is a fact the soldiers are sent there more or less against their will, they certainly weren't asked their opinions about it. The extensions of guard duty are positively criminal and amount to a draft as well, as none of those people agreed to serve for 2 years (and I understand they are going to extend it *ANOTHER* 2.5 years!!!).

Now, having said that, the best stats I have say they all voted for Jr.

So with that... they are each completely responsible for their choices.

Should they live, die, or suffer great hardship... the vast majority of them got the political leadership they wanted.

Now, for the 30% or so that didn't vote for Jr., don't want to be there, they should send me a note, I'll happily help educate them about military law to get out of service.

There are lots of ways to create really troubling issues for the military. U.S. military regulations go back as far as 200 years... there are more stupid laws in there than in the U.S. Constitution. If someone really wants to get out of service, it can be done legally.

But otherwise... people are responsible for their choices in life.
last edited: 1/12/05 3:47:22 PM”

“Additionally, the military is *SLAUGHTERING* Iraqis, best numbers I've seen say they get a legit insurgent about 1 in 10, which is pretty typical for this kind of thing.

There was one case where an entire company of marines was pinned down in Fallujah by a single sniper who picked off two guys and wounded 5.

The marines called in 6 separate air strikes and destroyed every building in the area by 5pm... and at 5:30pm the sniper fired again and hit another guy. I don't know what the final story was about that, but a lot of Iraqis did stay in Fallujah and hid in their basements. The marines in that case just called in air strike after air strike on all the buildings around them trying to get a SINGLE sniper... which they apparently didn't even get! What is the cost of an air strike? That had to be about $10 million Jr. pissed away trying to get a single sniper... RIDICULOUS B.S.!

And then there is the depleted uranium and the cluster bombings, dude, all that crap is 10X worse than *ANYTHING* the Iraqis are using against the U.S. (yet).

They aren't letting cameras or media anywhere near Fallujah but Iraqi doctors are reporting 80%+ of the casualties in Fallujah were old men, women, and children. The people who are fighting the U.S. just hauled butt.

Before Jr. went in they cordoned off the city and they wouldn't let anyone leave between the ages of 14 and 45, they just turned them back into the city.

I'm sorry, but any kind of age-based ethnic cleansing like this this is nothing short of genocidal behavior.

As to their tactics, well, there is not a doubt at all they are acting in self-defense.

The Iraqis never did a damn thing to us.
The Iraqis never did a damn thing to us.
The Iraqis never did a damn thing to us.
The Iraqis never did a damn thing to us.

Injustice anywhere threatens justice everywhere.
last edited: 1/12/05 3:49:35 PM”

“> You think what the "insurgents" are doing to
> American servicemen is hilarious.

And again, no, not quite, you haven't demonstrated a very good grasp of what I think, and you shouldn't speak for me until you do a better job in understanding what I think, because you haven't gotten it right even once (despite your proffessed willingness to try and speak for me).

I was laughing at the *VIDEO*. Despite endless accusations, I don't take joy in seeing soldiers killed, I come from a military family myself full of Vietnam Vets (and my own family is divided on these things).

I was laughing at the *VIDEO*. It is an incredible piece of propaganda. Go download it and watch it, the article left out a lot of the best lines. You might find yourself out there with the Iraqis, LOL

It is hilarious...

The Iraqis... with home video cameras and video editing equipment are turning out far far better propaganda than anything our $420 BILLION PER YEAR military has released in this $300 BILLION war, all of which is paid for by borrowing money, which we have to pay back... PLUS INTEREST!

They are beating the collective brains of the world's most expensive military and intelligence services with about $800 in equipment... it is HILARIOUS!!!
last edited: 1/12/05 4:06:10 PM”

“I see the propoganda is working on the insurgents glued to the internet.”

“All the views I just posted I felt before we even invaded Iraq, haven't changed much of my views in 3 years to be honest, so, that kind of falsifies your theory bbw. ;)

The only propaganda I need is my 'morality' and my 'values' which tell me it's wrong to slaughter people who never did anything to us for oil companies.

Not only is it immoral, but it's fiscally wreckless, endangers our future, and ignores what we should be doing... replacing oil.
last edited: 1/12/05 8:56:14 PM”

“

(The sign above is an actual billboard that was paid for by Clear Channel.. the company that owns all the right-wing radio talk-shows).
last edited: 1/12/05 8:54:08 PM”

“Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people. Slaughter people.

If you say it enough it sounds...redundant.

If you say it to a 21 year old American Marine....oh never mind...you don't have the courage to do that.”

“Actually, I picked up the phrase from a 19 year old tall skinny army guy at an Irish pub downtown. He was partying before getting sent back to Iraq. He was kind of drunk at the time. He was really excited that he was getting $900 a month or something "that's a lot of money man!" he said.

He said pretty close to "man, I had Al Qaeda all around me man, life is so cheap there! You don't understand it's not like here. I've got 98 confirmed kills they were coming at me from all sides and I was slaughtering them man!"

That's close to an exact quote.

He was with this Hawaiian marine, somewhat older who was also going back who was saying "we shouldn't even be there".
last edited: 1/12/05 9:14:20 PM”

“Once upon a time, there was a war.

When the war started, George Bush needed to think of a way to unite the Shiites, the Sunnis and the Kurds. Otherwise, they would start to kill each other.

So, he decided to make the occupation so onerus and ill-planned that the Iraqis would naturally unify against us. Several hand-picked Iraqis would then be ordered by the Bush administration to demand the exit of all American troops from Iraq. This would provide Bush cover and also give the hand-picked leader artificial legitimacy amongst Iraqis.

And they all lived happily ever after.”

“Except one thing... Jr. wants the oil and all the U.S. companies want the contracts to rebuild the country, and they've basically all been divyied out already at this thing called the "Future of Iraq Project" (search on the web for it).

Although you might end up being right.

But Allawi is going to have to be 10X as brutal to the Iraqis as Saddam was. They hated Saddam, but they didn't think of him as a puppet so much.

In all of Iraq's history, going back 4000 years, it is one of the very few countries that has not been occupied by a foreign power for a pro-longed period of time.
last edited: 1/12/05 9:21:24 PM”

“It comes as absolutely no surprise to me that your political views are inspired by a 19 year old drunk.

The drinking age is 21, but if you found a 19 year old who was wiley enough to get into a bar and tell 'war stories', you probably consider him to be a Messiah.”

“19 was my guess, he looked young as hell to me, but then again, I guess they are all starting to look young to me (I must be getting old :( ).

I didn't ask him his age, but you make a valid point, he wouldn't have been able to get into that particular pub with a fake I.D. either so he must've been over 21.

He was no 'Messiah'. I felt horribly bad for the brain-washing the kid has been subjected to. I mean completely brain-washed, not an ounce of independent thought did I see. Scared the hell out of me kind of, but he seemed like a good kid, or at least someone who wanted to do good.

The group of people I was with talked to him for a bit. You know what my parting comment to him was?

"I've only got one thing to say to you while you are over there, and I want you to think about it every day you are over there.

Always think for yourself."

He shrugged and we left. I wonder if he's still alive.

I'll bet his Hawaiian friend is...
last edited: 1/12/05 9:34:32 PM”

“Make up your stories, change them when they don't quite fit the facts. Good strategy. I think it is working for you.
last edited: 1/12/05 9:40:04 PM”

“Nope, that story is real. Although my belief that the Hawaiian would still be alive is my theory/opinion.

Do you know what cracks me up about you bbw, and the others in here?

You have a 100% top to bottom presumption that I'm lying in virtually everything I say.

You *ASSUME* I am lying because I am criticizing Jr.'s policies. Why do my criticisms have to be lies? Because you've got a monopoly on the 'truth'? Or because anything that factually contradicts things you believe in can't possibly be true?

You just assume everything I say is lies. Why? Is it because you want to attack me / discredit me, even if what I am saying is the truth? Is that your value-system? To smash critics... even if they are right?

Why the hell would I lie about, well, anything related to this? The election is already over. Especially now that Jr. is in second term. He's gone in 4 years, not likely any sooner. Talking about these things isn't going to change that. I'm not going to be getting Kerry elected.

People only lie to gain a reward or to avoid a punishment. In my case I don't see either. I can't stand Jr., but there isn't much I can do about it.

Additionally, you prognosticate "facts kill liberals", and others like Stove/Steve say I am 'person X' which isn't true, apparently to be a personal attack or something.

But what is disappointing me the most is the *ONLY* rebuttals to anything I've offered in here from the pro-Bush group have been personal attacks.

So how long do I have to wait for you to teach me some of these 'facts' that you use to justify your views?

Or are you not so interested in facts as you once proclaimed? And you are mostly interested in smashing the critics... even if they are right?
last edited: 1/12/05 10:00:43 PM”

“We don't assume you are lying. We know you are. Your stories don't make sense. They are fabricated or copied from something you found on a blog.

As far as personal attacks go you are the king.”

“You Turtle headed SOB! You phuckin commie!
I phukin hate smartasses like you !Always someone like you trying to stir up some shlt! Meet me at the Blairwitch trip this weekend and we can do more than hike!We can even make a phukin video of it!”

“Well, you are obviously offended about the remark about your son, so I'll apologize for it. I don't mean you or your family any harm at all. If I had my wish all this B.S. would be over.

(BTW - you never answered the question of whether you encouraged him to join the military).

>They are fabricated or copied from something
> you found on a blog.

Well, I do read an awful lot, and if any one story is of interest, I'll fully source it.

>We don't assume you are lying. We know
>you are. Your stories don't make sense.

I see, so by your thinking, because you don't understand something I say or it "doesn't make sense", that is absolute proof for you to be certain that I am lying? LOL

Well, I'm not lying... I'm only interested in describing reality accurately, if I'm wrong, show me something hard / material that falsifies something I believe.

I'm not lying... and I have made sense of just about all this stuff. With a son overseas, you probably shouldn't try and make sense of my 'stories'. You should focus on getting your son home and going hiking with him.”

“That is not the personal attack I was referring to, but since you mentioned my son again, I have to add that my son would be offended by your 'slaughtering humans' remark.

(BTW you never conceded you were wrong about having no sources accusing the President}”

“>'slaughtering humans'

Nevertheless, the action is the same, even if he uses the word 'enemy' instead of 'humans'.

Spam - yes, yes, everyone is a communist. Do you really mean your threat of violence against me?
last edited: 1/12/05 10:43:35 PM”

“Naw man I was talking about a political debate!

U.S. Army Retired and damn proud of it and my country and even if I don't like everything thats going on I feel I need to support my leaders because the majority of the U.S. voted for my leaders!
last edited: 1/12/05 10:49:55 PM”

“Maybe it would be better to invite Trail Turtle on a hunting trip.”

“The action is not the same. The term slaughter implies something else and you know it.”

“USA is that you?? I have this sinking feeling that you are rearing your ugly head again,,kinda like that turtle head I just drop off at the pool!

I really don't think this maggot is BB like many of you have accused him of being,,so my guess is that USA is back.”

“Oh yeah, I forgot about that shlthead.”

“LOL... well I'm always up for political debates... argument is sport to me. ;) Unfortunately most people don't approach things like that.

There are lots of things to be proud of America about. I *LOVE* the conceptual model myself, just wish we'd get back to it.

As for hunting (don't worry, I got the pun ;) ),... nope... I killed an animal once as a child and it sat there looking at me with anger/sadness in it's eyes dying, just looking at me as if to ask "what did I do to you?"... and the answer was not a damn thing.

And ever since I saw an adult black bear live in the smokies, and saw how petrified of me it was, and how it took off running like a scared dog... it's changed my perspective on wildlife a lot.

The animals are not at all the 'evil monsters' they are portrayed as on T.V. ... it is such a bizarre thing that we are made to think they are so dangerous.

Despite some of his 'stretching' of facts, one thing Michael Moore is right is that we very much have a fear-based culture. Everything we are and think is defined by some kind of fear of something.”

“Nope... I can assure everyone...

... I am very much a new '#&%!$head', LOL.

>“The action is not the same. The term
>slaughter implies something else and you know
>it.”

I think he would take offense to the term 'slaughter humans', but not 'slaughter the enemy'.

They want it to be like a videogame now (or they try to make it that way).

BTW, for what it's worth, I don't buy into the view that the soldiers are all the bad things that the soldiers think are being said about them. Nor do I exempt them of it.. we have a lot of guys that seriously like killing people, but it's probably very much a minority.

The truth is that the vast majority of soldiers are usually low-income people who didn't have money for college and joined the forces because they believe in what they are doing (or at least want to).

Unfortunately, Jr. does not have their best interests, nor the countries best interests at heart.

The Iraqis could have a real Democracy, and, interestingly enough, we could have secure access to the oil. But the money from it wouldn't go to all the Houston oil monopolies that got Jr. elected, reather ... it would go to the Iraqis.

And, frankly, for everything those people have been through over last 20 years... they deserve it.
last edited: 1/12/05 11:18:38 PM”

“Hey, guess what? They haven't found any weapons of mass destruction and have stopped looking.
Just an observation... A lot of folks on this board got all up in arms about anyone's comments against the "action" in Iaq, saying stuff like 'you're not supporting the troops" etc but when RUMsfield made his remarks about armor and such, most on this board ran to HIS defense and voiced little concern for the "boys."
Its a bloody, nasty business. I wish our youth weren't caught in the middle.

g'nite”

“We are evil. We are doing no good in Iraq. Our soldiers are working, fighting and dying in vain. They accomplish nothing. Their leader is evil and as bad as Hitler. Abu Grarab is as bad as the Holocaust. The troops are evil. But don’t get me wrong, I support the troops.”