5,500 U.S. Soldiers Have Fled to Canada

“Good job of defending some of the world's most hated. I knew you could do it. You sir, are full of shlt. You have twisted thoughts and need professional help. I admire that in a person.

You are entitled to your opinion of the U.S. government whether it's under the control of the democrats or republicans. Although my hunch is you are just anti-republican since you don't bash the democrats even though they had control of the White House from 1992 to 2000.

Your defense of Osama is pathetic.

"Americans have a democracy, they vote and they choose their leaders, therefore they are responsible for the decisions their government makes."

Couldn't of said it better myself. Seems to me that Clinton was in charge when the World Trade Center was attacked the first time. Americans were dying, Clinton sat on his hands and did nothing to protect the American people or our evil service members from harms way. (U.S.S. Cole)

We haven't had a terrorist attack on American soil since September 11, 2001. Bush must be doing something right. I'd rather fight the problem over there then sit on my hands and hope the problem goes away on its own.

"The U.S. does not allow arabs to have security from the U.S., so they are not going to let Americans have their own security."

You should of put down the crack pipe before you typed that drivel. That's just moronic.

The higher cost of oil you complain so much about is actually called supply and demand. With China's economy growing at an incredibly fast rate they are increasing their need for oil, putting a huge strain on the market. President Bush is seeking ways for the U.S. to decrease it's demand for foreign oil by drilling for oil in ANWR and challenging industry to come up with cost efficient and pracitcal hybrids that run on electricity or hydrogen.

I'll be back later to respond to your response. I have to search the web like Violin for cool cut and pastes.

8)”

“TrailTurtle, let's drink some special grape kool-aid together since their is no God and the world is in such dire straits with a Bush in the White House.


You go first.


8)”

“>my hunch is you are just anti-republican

Not really 'anti-Republican', anti-militant totalitarian ... which means anti-Bush.

As to my 'defense' of bin Laden... it's his justificationism for militant totalitarianism, much like Bush's justificationism for militant totalitarianism.

I do find OBL's criticisms to be of merit (however he does have a lot of non-sensical religious B.S. that he surrounds these criticisms with ... LOL, just like Bush).

>The higher cost of oil you complain so much
>about is actually called supply and demand.

Well, unfortunately, that's not really true. Supply and demand only works in free markets. Oil is not a free market. Whoever controls the most of it controls the price of it and Houston/Exxon has been #&%!$ing about too cheap arab oil for 20 years, and pre-'91 invasion Bush Sr.'s envoy asked Saddam for higher oil prices for 'oil producing states' and Saddam said his policy was to keep it low that it's not the arab way to rip people off.

That transcript has never been refuted by the State Department or any other government agency.

>We haven't had a terrorist attack on
>American soil since September 11, 2001.

The Iraqis don't see things this way. They see their entire country as having been destroyed by the U.S. ... when they did nothing. The WMD claim that the U.S. now admits is false, oh man that is a huge story over there.

As to your offer of what I interpret as killing me by poisoning me... if you prefer for me to be silenced you'll have to do it by showing me that I'm wrong with hard material observation on anything I've claimed.

... which you can't ... because I'm not.
last edited: 1/16/05 9:26:14 AM”

“I have yet to see a shred of evidence to which you've been spewing. Sounds like opinion to me.

I'm curious though. What would you do if you were President? Give the towelheads an apology for being mean to them over the last 50 years and give them a big wet sloppy kiss? Tell them were pulling out of the middle east for good and we don't care what they do with Israel. Let them build nuclear weapons to threaten other nations with. These people are not real stable if you catch my drift. I'm sure all the terrorism would come to a complete stop too.

Here's what I think your answer will be:

The United States is the only country in the world that threatens other nations with nuclear weapons. North Korea, Iran, India, Pakistan and China all have nuclear weapons to keep their nations free from imperalistic America and that crazy Bush son of a bltch.

Israel should of never existed it was a mistake. Jews should not have a homeland and who cares that the original palestinian homeland is actually in Jordan.

How'd I do?



Please hurry, the excitement of waiting is giving me a bowel movement.”

“I got a turtle head poking out.”

“oh shat.”

“> What would you do if you were President?

Would have focused on getting OBL, just like Clinton did with '93 WTC bombers (and was successful in aprehending without bankrupting the country).

I would've then created $40B state-funded venture fund for production distributed-economy consumer hydrogen research only available to businesses with 100 or fewer employees (no oil companies or energy monopolies need apply, they have conflict of interest).

As to Iraq, I would have kept Saddam in power until Hydrogen live, and then would've called for free and fair elections in Iraq. The "only Saddam on the ticket" election he had was more honest & fair than the one Jr. is doing where the candidates aren't even named!

The arabs have never had any problems with Democracy (it is a lie the press tells Americans 'they don't understand Democracy'). They had Democracy in Iran in 1950 and in other cases.

Problem is, real Democracy means they are free (from us)...

Under this model Saddam would still be in power (however the tactics Allawi will have to use and is using are no different than Saddam's), we would have surplusses now, lower trade deficits, no geopolitical destabilization issues, closer to freedom from oil dependency (no more monthly utility bills for any of us), and OBL's own friends probably would've rolled over on him and turned him up.

Oh yeah, the hydrogen VC-fund would've added 3 to 4 million new jobs directly, and as many as 10-20 in ancillary development to produce new consumer stoves, generators, vehicles, revitalizing the 'getting slaughtered' manufacturing sector.
last edited: 1/16/05 11:07:56 AM”

“As the President you don't pass laws, Congress does. How would you work with the evil republicans to get these things done?”

“>“As the President you don't pass laws,
>Congress does. How would you work with the
>evil republicans to get these things done?”

Well, I used to be a Republican, and despite the current president, there are a lot of them that believe do actually believe in entrepreneurship over inheritance & monopolies. Despite the Bush administration, a lot of Republicans do believe in protecting the environment. Despite the Bush administration, a lot of them do believe in integrated free market economies (as opposed to statist-monarchy-like imperialist monopolies).

A lot of Republicans believe it is the duty of *ANYONE* who makes money to make all of society better in the process, and not to screw over, maim, kill & rob just because we can (or at least think we can... LOL... hilarious how a couple thousand Iraqis are doing to the world's most expensive military with mid-century weaponry.).

Like I said, I'm not anti-Republican... I'm anti-Bush family, and it's because I do believe in entrepreneurship, sustainable growth, and a meritocracy. I am anti-Bush because they believe in an entitlement model where children inherit everything, pay off the monopolies, and spend their days screwing with cronies and politics to stay in power.

There are lots and lots of *REAL* conservatives. We will be seeing a lot of them emerge in about 18 months, when Jr. is lame-duck and powerless, we'll be seeing them rising to the front again.

But for now, yeah, I'll be voting Dem, 80-90% of the time if only to restore checks & balances. In hindsite we saw a lot of this stuff with Bush Sr., but I'll never be voting for anyone even remotely connected to the Bush family again.

Not all Republicans believe in the militant, totalitarian, destroy the environment, monopolistic - inheritance baby model that Jr. is trying to make happen. Quite a few actually do believe in the conceptual model of America: meritocracy, entrepreneurship, preservation of the environment, diplomacy, fiscal frugalness, diversity, and equality.

But I'll never vote for anyone connected to the Bush family ever again, they all hold the same model... the militant-inheritance baby-monopolist model... that model is wholly un-American... to it's core.
last edited: 1/16/05 2:30:05 PM”

“Oh yeah, and for those Republicans that don't believe in meritocracy, equality, etc., well, they are easy.. those kinds of people are usually as crooked as corkscrew... find some dirt on them, let them know you know it... and you can usually buy them off cheap.... LOL.
last edited: 1/16/05 3:21:28 PM”

“I was a member of our military once and I didn't have a choice when the President asked us to go to Iraq the first time around. I can tell you the current members of the military don't have a choice either. I'm sure they don't appreciate you thinking their deaths are a laughing matter. I wouldn't want you in the republican party with the attitude you have towards our military.”

“>I was a member of our military once and I
>didn't have a choice when the President asked
>us to go to Iraq the first time around. I can
>tell you the current members of the military >don't have a choice either.

Well then that is proof-positive it is a lie that we have an all-volunter force, would you agree?

>I'm sure they don't appreciate you thinking
>their deaths are a laughing matter.

Well, it's obvious that, repeatedly, my comments and laughter are inaccurately interpreted as laughing at the body counts of the soldiers, often driven by lack of an ability to pay for college, into the only real 'hell' that there exists.


My laughter is not directed at their suffering, but rather, at the zeal of the Bush lackeys and ditto-heads who have been so readily and easily conned by Bible-thumping and flag-waiving.

I'm not laughing at the troops dying ULTRA...

I'm laughing at you and the people who voted for Jr., the 62 million. Because it won't be Jr. that suffers the consequences of this idiocy.

It will be you.... you'll be paying out the ass in taxes, in lost freedom, lost security, and only God knows what consequences this idiocy yields. You won't be getting cheap oil from this, the only difference is the money will go into Exxon's pockets rather than the Iraqis pockets (to rebuild their obliterated by the U.S. country... whom never did anything to us).

While the soldiers might be victims in this, I have a difficult time finding the people who voted for Jr. to be victims.

That is the toughest thing I've had to quantize and think through... the OBL thing on voting & taxpaying.

As citizens in a Democracy... are we in fact responsible for, and punishable by death inflicted by them, if we allow our government to do horrific things to people?

Are we... as citizens in a Democracy.. responsible for the actions of our government?

I've struggled a lot with that question and have been 50/50 on it, not agreeing with OBL nor disagreeing. Very tough thing to decide, but if you assume the IRS rule is in effect... that "ignorance about what is being done is no excuse", if someone buys that model.

... then yes, as citizens, we most assuredly are responsible for and accountable for the behavior of our government in a Democracy.
last edited: 1/16/05 3:40:36 PM”

“Nobody stuck a gun to my head and made me join the Army. I volunteered as do many other Americans. Not everybody joins the military for a college education. There are many other options to get money for college. When I signed up I knew full well that there was a chance I would have to go somewhere and fight in a war. Anybody who tells you different is lying to themselves.”

“> Nobody stuck a gun to my head and made me
> join the Army. I volunteered as do many
> other Americans. Not everybody joins the
> military for a college education. There are
> many other options to get money for
> college. When I signed up I knew full well
> that there was a chance I would have to go
> somewhere and fight in a war. Anybody who
> tells you different is lying to themselves.

Well, your views seem contradictory. In one breath, you chose, and in another you didn't.

The truth would seem to be a person choosing to kill people while knowing the people they are to kill will be chosen for them by others.

But again, I do believe you can't have 'peace' without armed forces. The people who believe there will be peace without someone to enforce the peace are fools.

We need the military because there will always be a bully of some sort that goes to beat up on the weak.

There must be someone to stop the bully.

Unfortunately, it is a very precarious situation when the military & government itself becomes the bully.
last edited: 1/16/05 4:20:15 PM”

“I said I did not have a choice in the first Iraq war. I chose to join the military. I joined in 1989 before Iraq invaded Kuwait. Once you are in you no longer have a choice. I didn't disagree with the President when I was in and alot of my fellow service members didn't disagree either. The President called and we went. willingly.”

“Well, I don't like Bush Sr.'s corruption, deficits, "Pegasus Teams", and everything else but if you have to compare the father and the son... Bush Sr. did a hell of a better job than Jr. in managing something like this, LOL. Bush Sr. did get other countries involved, etc.

Of course, Bush Sr. made all the same wrong choices. For instance, when Bush Sr. was saying Saddam was pulling babies out of incubators and throwing them out of windows (lie) to justify the war, Bush Sr. also said he would 'liberate' Kuwait and install a Democracy there.

What did he actually do? The moment he left, he re-installed the Kuwaiti monarchy which continues to beat down and suppress it's people. ... cuz his oil buddies in Houston want control of the oil.

But, any points I'd give Bush Sr. from back then, I readily take away for his involvement in the Carlyle Group, UDI investments, etc.

If there is 'evil' in this world it is owning shares of military companies while simultaneously making the decisions to slaughter people.
last edited: 1/16/05 4:38:11 PM”

“Kuwait is full of bullies. Maybe we should thrash them.

Just kidding.


TrailTurtle where are you from? We need to go backpacking. I'm serious. You put up a good fight. We wouldn't have to talk about politics either. That way we both come back alive.

8)”

“LOL... Live in Atlanta. We're doing a trip at end of month called "Cold Mountain X2" it's listed in the board, you are more than welcome to join!

It's a beast of a trip and should be an butt-kicker.”

“Oh yeah... the trip we are doing? It's got a fun theme.

If you've seen the movie "Cold Mountain" or read the book?

It's about civil war army deserters who went deep in to the smokies to hide out and live during the war. They were hunted to the death and killed by confederate Republicans who hated deserters.

The hike we are doing is in the same area that the army deserters hid.... kind of a solute to them ;)

Still want to come? LOL.

But, it does promise to be a hike that's going to sufficiently whoop my a$$ that I'll be way too tired to talk politics, so you won't have to worry about that.
last edited: 1/16/05 4:52:30 PM”

“I wouldn't be able to do anything like that this month but I'am serious about backpacking. I had 9 weeks off last year and I'm fresh out of vacation days until spring.

Have fun on your trip.”

“THX... you to! BTW ... thanks for serving the country. Your heart is in the right place (if the politicians take advantage of it).”

“Yeah I saw the movie. Loved the ending when the deserter was killed by the evil republicans, LOL.”

“Bastard... LOL.”

“Confederate Republicans? You mean like President Lincoln?”

“LOL... I suppose \"confederate\" and \"republican\" is actually the same thing ;)

In 200 some-odd years of voting, the red states have stayed predominantly red and the blue states have stayed predominantly blue, LOL.

So, I suppose the \"confederate deserters\" were the civil-war era equivalent of Democrats trapped in red states (like myself).




last edited: 1/16/05 6:12:14 PM”

“Once again you have shown a complete lack of knowledge on the subject. After the Civil War the South was solid Democrat.

The Southern shift to Republicans is very recent.

You are a joke.”

“Well, when I say 'Democrat' I mean in terms of how it is defined today policy wise, and not the way it has been in the past (until Nixon's election).

You are right that there was definitely a lot of "Dixiecrat" Democrats that were racist/etc. they were essentially modern day Republicans.

Nixon changed this when he came along with his "Southern Strategy" which was to label the Democratic party the 'black' party and "good upstanding white church-going Christian folk" couldn't be associated with any black party, LOL. Just like Jr. did in the recent election with gay-marriage... can't have no Christian church-goin' folk part of any gay party now can we!!

(What's hilarious is Jr. has already scrapped the gay-marriage efforts and isn't going to touch it in the next 4 years, another successful GOP manipulation to win the support of southerners... who will be paying the bills for the policies with higher taxes... just like NIXON, LOL.).

So, for historical consistency, I dunno, what do you call a person who puts equality & human rights ahead of nationalism (nazism)?

I suppose 'internationalists' or something. Dems today are thought of as internationalists/diplomats, and Republicans are thought of tough nationalists.

Interestingly enough, it's the "tough nationalists" in Iraq that are mutually killing the "tough nationalists" in the U.S., LOL.

SO, I suppose what happens is enough time goes by and the 'Republicans' or bullying nationalists get themselves killed and wounded enough to the point they don't think what they were doing was so smart and vote Democrat, LOL.

Either that or they come home in sufficient injured state, none of their buddies who encouraged them to go fight help them... so they they all have to turn to socialist welfare and medical programs to treat their injuries, LOL.
last edited: 1/16/05 6:31:54 PM”

“If you could be more wrong I don't know how.

Your historical facts are completely wrong and your hysterical 'facts' are just an opinion shared by very few.”

“I take that back. You have been more wrong. You said you had evidence, personal accounts, of President Bush using cocaine.

You didn't, You don't.”

“I see, well just because you don't like my particular read on history doesn't make it any less true.

What specifically do you have an issue with? Nixon labeling the Dems the 'black party' to win the south?

Nixon's Southern Strategy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

Racist Democrats? Soldiers coming home hurt and turning socialist? Jr. scrapping gay-marriage the day after he was elected?

You'll need to explain to me where what I am saying is wrong to convince me of such. If you are right I will certainly change my opinion, but bbw, you've been quite a disappointment to date.

You say I'm wrong and lying, but never any specifics ... basically at all.”

“>You said you had evidence, personal accounts,
>of President Bush using cocaine.

Well, I never said that, but that apparently is what you heard (probably because you didn't read what I said). I said there are three parties that have said they are witnessed as specified in a book.

I also said all of Jr.'s testimony related to that has been supportive (non-falsifying) the claims of those people.

In the case of cocaine use there exists no hard material evidence (even from Jr. himself) that shows he didn't use cocaine, and there are multiple accounts of people who say they were witnesses from that book and from other sources.

Just hop on google and type in "bush cocaine".
last edited: 1/16/05 6:42:51 PM”

“You said it again.
+++++++++
I said there are three parties that have said they are witnessed as specified in a book
TrailTurtle
6:41:08 PM
1/16/05
++++++++++
So, it exists in this book? It can't be Googled? It does not exist anywhere except on the pages of this book?

HAhahaha

What a joke.
last edited: 1/16/05 6:49:41 PM”

“LOL...

___

BUSH 'TOOK COCAINE AT CAMP DAVID'
Sep 6 2004
And wife Laura liked dope, says book
By Emma Pryer
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/tm_objectid=14609301&method=full&siteid=50143&headline=bush--took-cocaine-at-camp-david--name_page.html

GEORGE W Bush snorted cocaine at Camp David, a new book claims.

His wife Laura also allegedly tried cannabis in her youth.

Author Kitty Kelley says in her biography The Family: The Real Story of the Bush Dynasty, that the US President first used coke at university in the mid-1960s.

She quotes his former sister-in-law Sharon Bush who claims: "Bush did coke at Camp David when his father was President, and not just once either."

Other acquaintances allege that as a 26-year-old National Guard, Bush "liked to sneak out back for a joint or into the bathroom for a line of cocaine".

Bush has admitted being an alcoholic but, asked during the 1999 election if he did drugs, he said: "I've told the American people that years ago I made some mistakes.

"I've learned from my mistakes and should I be fortunate enough to become president I will bring dignity and honour to the office."

Later an aide clarified his remarks saying Bush hadn't taken illegal drugs in the past 25 years.

Kelley says that the Bush family covered up scandals because of their wealth and influence. She claims George W started drinking at school and continued at Yale university to overcome shyness.

Former student Torbery George says in the book: "Poor Georgie. He couldn't relate to women unless he was loaded."

Another says: "He went out of his way to act crude. It's amazing someone you held in such low esteem later became president."

His supporters have slammed the allegations as outrageous.

The White House said: "This book appears to be filled with the same trash discredited years ago."

___”

“Why does Sharon Bush deny she ever made that quote?”

“Well, according to WP, she doesn't deny that Jr. did coke, but is questioning the circumstances of the interview and whether or not the interview was on or off the record.

According to the above article, Sharon Bush told Kitty Kelly the coke story twice, once at a lunch, and again over the phone with Kitty Kelly's publisher on the phone.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A6706-2004Sep8.html


Anyway, I believe he did coke, there is ample to suggest he did... and he hasn't denied it (and Sharon Bush doesn't deny he did coke either, only whether the interview was on or off the record).

But... bbw you can keep telling yourself Jr. didn't go coke, LOL. I honestly don't give a rat's a$$, either way. Jr. can go do more coke if he wants to if it'll change his policies or make him smarter, LOL.
last edited: 1/16/05 7:16:38 PM”

“You said there were three parties who witnessed the President using cocaine. So far you found a book that said Sharon Bush witnessed it, but Sharon Bush said she did not.

Can you find one witness?”

“What better witness do you need than Jr. himself? What's the matter bbw? You don't trust the honesty of your exaulted commander and chief? LOL.

"I've learned from my mistakes and should I be fortunate enough to become president I will bring dignity and honour to the office."

Enough with the cocaine story, I really don't care. Okay you are right to believe your fantasy, LOL.
last edited: 1/16/05 7:30:24 PM”

“Anyway, I believe he did coke, there is ample to suggest he did... and he hasn't denied it (and Sharon Bush doesn't deny he did coke either, only whether the interview was on or off the record).
TrailTurtle
7:15:18 PM
1/16/05

Ample what? Ample speculation? Ample conspiracy theories? Ample hate mongers?

HAHAHAHA

How about ample proof.”

“bbw... it's free world, believe as you will. I believe he did coke, but his crimes as president are 10,000X worse.
last edited: 1/16/05 7:31:41 PM”

“It is not a free world. It is a free America.

You have repeately made accusations and demanded you have proof, but you have none.

You are free to lie, does not cost a thing. Your credibility is worth nothing as well.”

“> It is a free America.

LOL... that's hilarious! Try doing *ANYTHING* the government doesn't want you to do.



None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free.

--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
last edited: 1/16/05 8:11:51 PM”

“>It's free world.

You are an idiot.”

“>You are an idiot.

While I'm certain you meant to insult me, I suppose that's the first one you got right bbw!!

I will confess I am an idiot, or at least, ignorant.

The limits of what I might learn during the short span of life I've been granted will always be surpassed by the unbounded and inestimable quantities of knowledge that I will not.
last edited: 1/16/05 8:52:23 PM”

“Just be honest. No one will fault you for that.”

“Good gawd, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a person so absolutely out of touch with reality and so locked up in their own version of reality. TrailTurtle needs some professional help STAT! LOL! This guy would make Michael Moore say [with a mouth full of donuts mind you], “Damn dude, that’s a little extreme.”.”

“>Good gawd, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a
>person so absolutely out of touch with reality

I see.. and so you think I should believe your 'reality' ... the FOX News reality?

The one where Iraqis are throwing flowers at us? Where slaughtering people and installing puppet governments is bringing Democracy to them? The one where Saddam was behind 9/11? The reality in which occupying Iraq has nothing to do with the oil fields and is a "left-wing conspiracy theory"?

Well, I will say one thing... the fantasy you have your brain all locked up in isn't your own... that's for sure! Nope... all of your thoughts are the wholly owned intellectual property of FOX News and the Republican party, LOL.



Better polish them buttons and shine them shoes Nigal! You don't want to fall behind...
last edited: 1/17/05 10:16:48 AM”

“Once again you fall for your own misconceptions and blame Faux News for the ills of the political world. You show that you know nothing because I don't even get Fox News. I don't even have basic cable. Haha!”

“Probably Clear Channel radio then... LOL.”

“Only if the local suckass classic rock station counts. Face it, you want to blame other's views on the media and their supposed stupidity. My views go much, much deeper than that my loony little friend.

I do find it funny how you blame people for being sheepish and blindly following the media all the time yet all you do is quote, parrot, cut and paste and post pictures from the media. You are very transparent.”