Martin Luther King Day

“Today is Martin Luther King's birthday. He, while alive, did a great many things to help deal with the oppresion of the blacks and negroes, as they were referred to in that day. I applaud his efforts and am glad for what he has accomplished. He was a man of resolve, while battling for the rights of the oppressed. For that he has my respect.

This man was also human, far too human. After his death, there have been many coroberated accounts of his infidelity, adultery against his wife. Kennedy, Clinton, Benjamin Franklin, history is replete with instances of this occuring. Yet he gets his own holiday, not having to share it with many others. I am speaking of course of Presidents day.

It used to be that there was Washingtons Birthday, Lincolns Birthday that we remember. Now, it's just Presidents day. These were great men also, who had done much in freeing the oppressed. And at a personal cost to each of them. There have been others who have done a great deal also.

Then, on top of all that, there is a movement to "lessen" what Washington, and Jefferson , and others are and have done. There is one unsubstantiated report of a possible case of infidelity against Washington, yet it is taught as fact. Then there is Jefferson, involved in quite a scandal with a slave of his.

So where is the hippocracy I speak of? It is how the possible sexual scandals of the patriots of our early history are exploited with out corraberated eveidence, and there patriotic acts are often lost and buried under these alleged scandals. Yet, the same treatment is not reserved for MLK??????

It is sad, on my part, but about all I remember of anything MLK did is: "I have a dream". That one quote has been repeated so often, without the remainder of the text, that the quote has gained legendary status. Can anyone point me toward a link that would show a hostorical account of his great actions, please. I would like to learn more about the man. Please don't assume I hate the man or what he stood for, in fact, he has my respect. It is the hipocracy surrounding the man, by "the institution" that I dislike.”

“I may get flamed for saying this but this holiday was created for the black community and no one else.

This is not a popular holiday and unless you are a goverment employee or a teacher you don't get it off.

Even when this holiday was created it had to be agreed upon for x number of states.
Arizona voted not to have this holiday. For a while they didn't have it then the US goverment decided that Az would have funds cut off if they didn't make this day a holiday. So much for freedom of expression. The people spoke in Az that they didn't want it but were forced to make it one.”

“Our school district doesn't give the day off, they use the day to teach.

I wish that it was a day to honor everyone who helped make life more bearable for black people, like Rosa Parks, and that guy who started the first black school on that island, (see, more schools should be teaching this history today), etc. MLK did great things and he did make the ultimate sacrifice but others willingly put their necks out too and made a difference.”

“Ewker, don't forget the Big 3 and their suppliers get teh day off. Its not just for goverment employees and teachers. But, my BF doesn't get the day off, they're not very multi-cultural in Frankenmuth!

Unfortuatly, most people view this as a day off of work, not a day to reflect on the contributions of one man (or many people, if you wish) who have made our country a little more tolerant.”

“Hmmmmm.....a little more tolerant.”

“Smiley, ok the Big 3 get the day off. You are still talking a very small percentage of the work force who get this day off. The same applies for President's Day and other minor (in employers eyes) holidays off.

IMO JFK did a lot more than MLK did but yet he doesn't have a holiday. This was a holiday created to please the black community.”

“A lot of littles add up to a lot, MarkO. :)”

“Is there something wrong with "pleaseing the black community"?

The things MLK did go beyond just helping black Americans.

MLK brought things to light that many wanted kept quiet.

It's quite a long way for a people to go from "subhuman property" to citizens with full human rights.”

“Here Here to Martin Luther King! He was an amazing person and I highly respect him! One of the greatest Americans of all time! Thank god he came along! Wish we had more like him.”

“Martin Luther King moved mountains for people and not for profit.

He was murdered by cowards.”

“take that back, one of the greatest human beings ever!!!!!”

“It has got to the point that any little thing the black community doesn't like it gets changed to please them. It doesn't matter what other people think. Maybe that doesn't happen where you live but it does it the south. Schools have had to change there name, nickname or mascot because of the blacks.
Southern states esp are losing a lot of their heritage because of things having to change.
Things like slavery happened over a 100 yrs ago. But to keep bringing it up now is ridiculous.
last edited: 1/17/05 9:07:20 AM”

“no one is perfect and MLK had his flaws, as did all great American leaders. it seems some people love to highlight his flaws and judge him unfairly, while holding others to a lower standard- i guess that is a testament to the man MLK was. but what he did and what he stood for took great courage and leadership, he brought clarity to a deeply emotional issue and placed the country on a path to healing.

he most definitely deserves his own day; such a day isn't for the blacks, it's for all of us. considering the sickening institutional racism this nation once subscribed too, this is a day that highlights an important piece of our history.”

“I think it is all about how someone looks at it. Did he cheat on his wife? Maybe. Did he plagiarize his doctrinal thesis? Definitely. Does this somehow diminish the good things he accomplished? Not one bit. When we hear of these bigger than life men who did bad things throughout their life it shows they were human. Hell, Moses was a murderer for crying out loud.

Today is for everyone, not just blacks. While MLK’s focus was on the rights of blacks he was for the equality of ALL. At that time the blacks just happened to be the most oppressed. But it is about equality of all races and creeds…
“When we let freedom ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual, "Free at last! free at last! thank God Almighty, we are free at last!"”

Even if we look at it in the light of today being for the blacks; what’s wrong with that? I’m a bit of an altruist. I believe we were all created equal but we are NOT all alike. And thank heavens for that. I like it when people of different races have their own racial and cultural identities. I don’t want black people to conform and I don’t expect them to act some white guy from the burbs just to make me comfortable. It gives them a sense of identity. The negative to this is when people don’t accentuate the positives of their race and culture.
And it makes me sad that he worked so hard and in the end gave his life so that one day every man would be judged by the quality of his character and not by the coler of his skin and so many do not live up to this.

[end of rant] Happy MLK Day!”

“Ewker, Slavery is part of history, yes, and like all other history if we forget about it we may be doomed to allow it to happen again. Should we forget about concentration camps and broken treaties? Stop talking about 9-11 or the inhumane treatment of prisoners of war? I understand how one might be frustrated at the idea of making reparations to desendants of slaves that one's ancestors never owned but slavery is where many black people in the US came from, it's part of their roots and culture. I would be proud to have family who survived such a life and time, who succeeded in the end. It would be hard for me to pretend that they never went through anything remarkable, that they never existed and that that wasn't where I came from. It wasn't all that long ago. I thank God that my family was never owned and I can't blame people for not forgetting it and talking about it.”

“Sass, yes slavery is a part of history and it should be taught what happened. But to use it now to change names of buildings, cultures, schools, flags and heritage is what I am talking about.
Are you suppose to wipe out anything around today because it offends blacks. To make a high school change its name from the Franklin Rebels to something else is ridiculous. There are more cases of that happening in the south. I don't know if that is happening in the north or not.

People want to blame this country for slavery when it is still happeneing in Africa. Don't forget we weren't the ones who captured them and sold them as slaves originally. That was their own race who did that. A tribe would kill most of them and then take the remaining and sell them to others. They in turn took them to Europe and finally here.
If the blacks want to blame someone go back and look at there ancestors. They may not like what they see. It is a lot easier to blame the whites than their ancestors.
last edited: 1/17/05 11:40:09 AM”

“Ewker, the name changes happen here too, but not because of the black culture, but because of the Native American culture. Several high schools, and even Eastern Michigan University have had to change their mascots.

Its not necessarily a "black" thing.”

“There is only one race of Homo sapiens sapiens.

The Longest Filibuster ever was Strom Thurmond fighting a Civil Rights Bill. That wasn't 100yrs ago. In Prince Georges County, perhaps the most affluent black majority county in the Nation, young drivers carry lawyers cards for the frequency of DWB pull overs. KKK was allowed to adopt a stretch of highway in Missouri last week. It took a Supreme Court decision. How many crimes are born out of "racial" hatred?

How far have we really come?

BTW - there is an ongoing National effort to remove The N* word from geologic features. I believe street names were recently completed.
last edited: 1/17/05 12:01:09 PM”

“"Southern states esp are losing a lot of their heritage because of things having to change."

Yeah, too bad they had to lose slavery.
That was a very profitable piece of heritage the loss of which has caused a long-lasting grudge against the victims.

Blaming blacks for selling other blacks to Dutch slavers who in turn sold them to American land owners is ridiculous.

If there had not been Americans willing to buy slaves there would not have been a slave trade.

Quite a few of those slave ship expeditions to west Africa were financed out of Wall Street even after the war started.

There are families that made HUGE fortunes on slave labor.
Maybe it would be fair for THEM to pay some sort of reparations much like the German corporations paid to slave labor victims of fascism in Europe.”

“"To make a high school change its name from the Franklin Rebels to something else is ridiculous. There are more cases of that happening in the south."

I will go farther here, I think not only banning the name "Rebels" but banning the sedious confederate flag. To honor either or glorify either is to honor those who tried to seperate this great nation. They were traitors who commited treason, nothing noble nothing honorable in that...unless you win,then you rewrite the rules. I thought we were supposed to let go of the past like slavery and MLK, how about the civil war then too?”

“after rereading my post, it comes across angry (whcih wasnt my intent). I was trying to draw a parallel, my apologies.”

“That's about the size of it, birch.

The traitors were the aristocrats who didn't want to give up the gravy train that was slavery.

As usual the common man got to do the fighting and dying for those who controlled the wealth.”

“There is a fair amount of ignorance and misinformation here.

Misinformation:

1: "Arizona voted not to have this holiday"
False. One govenor of Arizona created made it an official Arizona Holiday. The next Govenor repealed the Holiday. The only time the people of Arizona voted on whether to have the Holiday, they voted for it.

2: "For a while they didn't have it then the US goverment decided that Az would have funds cut off if they didn't make this day a holiday."
Wrong. The US government did no such thing. Some private groups vowed not to have conventions or conferences in Arizona after Govenor Meacham signed an executive order repealing the Holiday. There were also a lkot of protests by people who lived there who wanted the Holiday.

3: "The people spoke in Az that they didn't want it but were forced to make it one.”
Again, the only time the people of Arizona voted.

4. "Things like slavery happened over a 100 yrs ago. But to keep bringing it up now is ridiculous."
This isn't about slavery. I traveled in the South in the early 1960s as a kid. I remember being blown away by all the "colored" and "white" signs I saw... at gas station water fountains, bathrooms and elsewhere and I remember how much shabbier the "colored" stuff was. There are plenty of people alive today who lost loved ones to lynchings and other organized racist murders. There are plenty of people alive to day who went to jail or were badly beaten because they violated racist laws.”

“The ignorance is telling too. Ignorance ain't no crime. And it is not worthy of dis-respect when there is inquiry. And Monkeyboy earn s my respect for inquiring. Although I think it is silly to talk about hippocracy.

Martin Luther King led people to peacefully and vocally confront a vicious and racist system. He brought people out, dressed in their Sunday best - exemplifying the great Christian Virtues of confronting evil, turning the other cheek, loving those who hated them who did not turn to violence despite savage beatings, vicious dogs, water hoses and the like. He and those who followed him, maintained that Christian non-violence despite many murders of those who came in peace to witness against immoral laws. He went to jail peacefully, suffered taunts and violence and ultimately gave his life for a moral and noble cause. His letter from the Birmingham Jail, his "I have a Dream" speech and many others were filled with beautiful and powerful words - but he also walked the walk and his example, his courage and his conviction inspired a great many to walk with him.

The man was human. He had flaws, but he also rose to awesome and admirable heights.

I have no problem with a Civil Rights day, instead of a Martin Luther King Day. However, the fact is that those who were most active in the Civil Rights movement with King, wanted a Martin Luther King Day - that is how they wanted to celebrate the accomplishments of the movement.

The fact that we are having this discussion, highlights the value of the day.”

“There was a Washington's Birthday Holiday for almost 200 years and a separate Lincoln's birthday until about 100 years after he died, and the MLK day may get merged into something else some day. I see no hippocracy in the difference.

I do not see that more is made of Jefferson or Washinton's infidelities than MLK's. There is major genetic evidence of Jefferson's affair with a slave and that is interesting.

Washington was a great man. We owe a huge amount to the fact that he stepped away from power after two terms. Many newly independent democracies have founded when their revolutionary leader failed to walk away from power. Jefferson and Washington both failed to really confront slavery much to their dismay.

Many things get glossed over in history. For example, who here knows how much hostility Jefferson expressed towards Christianity?”

“Did anyone happen to see the "Saturday Night Live" skit on this??”

“Lastly If you studied the History of the 1960's Ewker, you will see how much the Civil Rights movement forced Kennedy's hand. Kennedy was too worried about losing the support of Southern Democrats to confront segregation unless pushed by events.”

“To say that MLK Day is a black holiday is as smart as saying Columbus Day is for the Euro-crackers. LOL!

I watched an interesting show last night on Trio. It was a solid hour of nothing but the discussion and origans of the word niggar. It was very interesting to hear where some people fall on the use of the word. It was interesting to see who took the word and turned it around and have caused it to because so removed from it's origanal meaning. One question they asked all the black celebs they interviewed was, "When was the first time you were ever called a niggar?". The answers were veried from 4 months old to never.”

“I thought it quite telling that, until recently, Virginia had Jackson-Lee-King Day. Now J-L Day is the Friday before. From cold-cock to a mere slap in the face.

Who say's Virginia is "Northern"?”

“I believe Washington, D.C. had "colored only" facilities when I was a little kid.

I remember having my mouth washed with soap for using that word when we lived in D.C.”

“Uh, Richmond was the capitol of the traitor government.”

“There is a great documentary of ML King that was just on PBS. It touched on the years from 63 to 68 and what he accomplished”

“'63 to '68 was an ugly time in America.”

“MLK weekend is a great time to go backpacking.”

“Amen Jo! - that should cause no controversy here.”

“And remember: Virginia is for Lovers.............straight lovers anyway.”

“Pedxing, there is no controversy here. Just a difference of opinion on the way people look at that day.

You were right on the Az comment, my apologizes.”

“I thought Vagina was for lovers?”

“No Nigal, vagina is for anybody. You don't have to be in love. And it's not just for breakfast anymore.”

“Salmon...the other pink meat.”

“Is Tuna the pink meat that looks white?”

“And the thread degenerates...”

“Well his day is over.”

“Sorry about that. I was thinking, "How the hell did we get from MLK to mommy parts?".”

“Hey Ewker - thanks. I get misinformed too, and all I can really do when I find out is acknowledge the correction. My apologies for coming on stronger than I should have.”

“Don't even try that innocent crap Nigal:

“And remember: Virginia is for Lovers.............straight lovers anyway.”
Bearmagnet
12:20:52 PM
1/18/05

I thought Vagina was for lovers?”
Nigal
12:24:51 PM
1/18/05”

“Hey, you started it. How can ya leave me an opening like that and not expect me to fall into it? Sorry, this one falls squarely on your shoulders me friend.”

“How twisted! This is not an opening I would want to fall into. While there are many pleasant means of entry, that is not one I'm interested in.”

“Should have strapped a 2x4 to my ass.”

“Pedxing, interesting info. You got a link to his accomplishments? Seems I am always asking you for info. You seem to be able to find it.

"Although I think it is silly to talk about hippocracy." I grew up in DC for 4 years, and I experienced a great deal of predjudice. Against me, as a white. Sure I saw plenty, both ways. That gets so little play. But it was there, while I was there. Now, I understand that they were lashing back. But they didn't need to do it to me. My best friend was black. And many knew that. The predjudce was every bit as bad both ways, but the blacks never acknowledged it, while demanding the whites did. So, I guess that was a bit of a formative factor in my life, and that's is, consequently, how I see it.

It is unfortunate that things have become such race issues. Do I call you black? Negro? Colored? African American? I think friend sounds so much better.”