Bitter Kerry & Boxer vote NO on Condi Ri ce

“Sure, why not?

What war did Hillary get us involved in?”

“Zip. Nada.”

“Y'all were talking about liars, so Hill came to mind. ;-)”

“Pelosi Defends Ex-Klansman's Assault on Condi
Thursday, Jan. 20, 2005 9:59 a.m. EST

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi found herself on the defensive Thursday morning over the decision by Senate Democrats to put former Ku Klux Klansman Sen. Robert Byrd in charge of efforts to derail the confirmation of Secretary of State-nominee Condoleezza Rice.

"I don't think that whatever Senator Byrd is doing has anything to do with his sad past," Pelosi told WWRL radio hosts Steve Malzberg and Karen Hunter.

Instead, said the San Francisco Democrat, the one-time Grand Kleagel was acting out of concern that the advise-and-consent role of the Senate in presidential appointments was being overlooked.
In a move that was seen by many as an insult to the first black woman ever appointed secretary of state, Sen. Byrd announced his decision to hold up her confirmation late Wednesday, saying it needed more debate before the full Senate.

Rep. Pelosi insisted that Byrd's extraordinary move had nothing to do with his long history of public racism, but was instead a reflection of his opposition to the Iraq war.

"They're confirming a secretary of state in a time of war. [Byrd's] views on the war and his opposition to it are well known," she said.

Still, Byrd's "sad history," as Pelosi described it, makes him a particularly bad choice to lead the assault on Rice.

As recently as 2001, the West Virginia Democrat was forced to apologize after blurting out during a nationally televised interview: "There are white n****rs, I've seen a lot of white n****rs in my time. I'm going to use that word."

In 1972, Byrd pushed to have the Senate's main office building named after Dixiecrat Sen. Richard Russell, a leading opponent of anti-lynching legislation who Byrd called "my mentor."

Byrd filibustered the landmark 1964 Civil Rights Act for 14 straight hours.

Three years after he said he'd left his white-sheeted brethren behind, he wrote to Georgia's Grand Imperial Wizard urging: "The Klan is needed today as never before."

Sen. Byrd was also a fierce opponent of desegregating the military, complaining in one letter, "I should rather die a thousand times and see old glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again than see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen of the wilds."”

“MarkO - you don't actually consider yourself centrist do you? You and JO are on the left tip of the wing.

We wouldn't need national security if we weren't such #&%!$s to the rest of the world.”
Silent J
6:27:30 AM
1/20/05

What are you smoking? Being the most successful at anything draws fire, period. Yes, we fuel the flames, but look at sports. Who do folks love to pull against? Whoever is on top. Why? Jelousy.”

“Whoa!!! Mercy!!! Up is down and black is white. Cats and dogs living together. Me a left tip 'o the wing!? HA! So shows the power of name calling. Go on ask my brother......am I a lefty? ( not that there's anything wrong with it mind you......) WooHooo! I'm a rather square boring dude. TeeHeee!

Dayhiker....just because people have views different than your own doesn't mean that they are out there on the wings. Jeezuz peezuz.

Here we go again with pigeon holing people.
Hey, ya know. Ya gotta have the guts to take a stand out on the wings sometimes. If ya stay in the middle of the road ya get run over like road kill.”

“That may be true, DH. But, we don't have to be so f_cking arrogant about it!”

“Won't concede that this whole thing is not about race, Stovie? You're as myopic as they make 'em...”

“JO - I'm fine with people having radically different views than me, that's one thing I like about TT.

TB - agreed, but you'll also agree that this arrogance didn't start or end with W.”

“No, but it would venture to say it compounded itself tenfold with him...”

“Thanks DH

Waz up down in Bama Today?”

“Tree - .......and you won't concede that Robert Byrd leading the attack on Ms Rice looks even questionable. Looks like I'm not the only one, myopic.
last edited: 1/21/05 10:08:54 AM”

“It's up to about 62* here. Nice spring day.

Jo - I'm assuming you and Mark do view yourselves as well left of center?”

“Stove, are actually insinuating that he opposes her nomination because of her race? Because, that's all that's left of your empty argument here. I read not one word that even hinted at that, so my answer is no. Not questionable at all. I honestly feel that he is leveling a warranted attack on her credibility concerning the invasion of Iraq. That is the issue at hand, not ancient history. I feel that if she were white and said the exact same things leading up to the invasion, Byrd would have equal reason to question that also. The only thing I will answer yes to is the fact that i think you are reaching reeeeeeaaaaal far on this one and engaging in extreme hyperbole. That's about as clear as I can put it. If you can show me some evidence that race should enter the picture here, then I will concede to you, Mr Cochran!
last edited: 1/21/05 10:13:55 AM”

“Johnny Cockaroo ?”

“Tree, it's clear to me, we can not understand each other.
SO, let's agree to disagree. ;-)”

“I think what he's saying is that if Byrd were a Repub and he was asking these same questions to a black female who was a Dem, then there would be much wailing and gnashing of teeth.”

“Exactly, dayhiker.”

“You got it, counselor! I rest my case.

DH, that's getting really tiresome, too. The "you would do this if..." crap is really getting old. Frankly, I am sick of people telling me what I am thinking or what I would do in a like situation. As much as I pump my my opinions into the forum, I think that particular point is a line I rarely, if ever, cross.”

“And Stovie just confirmed his approval for that sort of back biting...”

“"I rest my case"

I guess you didn't. ;-)”

“It would be more convincing if he were to offer some shred of evidence that race applies here, instead of strictly going on the "let's switch the parties around and guess the results" scenario, doncha think?”

“I was speaking to the media and people in general and not you in particular. Now, for the record, I suspect you'd be on that bandwagon, but that's not what I was actually trying to say.”

“I was answering DH, wiseguy!”

“I challenge you dig up some of my comments that support that...”

“I too am tired of hearing this "what if..." crap and telling me what I think.

You guys are shouting down from the right-wing bandwagon and reciting what the radio knuckleheads are saying.

You clowns are way too easy.

I do not ride bandwagons.

I drive a mini van.”

“I said that I suspect that. When it comes right down to it, I honestly don't care how you'd react. It's all hypothetical. I'm stating my opinion. Nothing more and nothing less. That opinion does come from a gut feel of reading posts here for a few years, but not any one specific time that I'd waste time researching.”

“You're welcome to tell me what the radio knuckleheads are saying, because I don't listen to talk radio. Thanks for playing though.”

“Ok, the choice is yours. Try not to get too testy, though. I'm just talking matter of factly here without hostility. Not trying to change you or Stovie either...

Besides, there's bigger fish to fry. The Christian right is now telling me that Spongebob is gay! :)
last edited: 1/21/05 10:35:36 AM”

“Don't listen anymore, huh?

I guess you guys have finished your re-education.”

“If Byrd had just worn his klan hat then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I wonder if stovie is a closet KKK member just trying to throw us off ;)”

“I have very rarely listened to talk radio, thank you very much. I can probably count on my hands and toes the number of times, ever.

Not trying to be testy.”

“No DH, I don't see it that way because it isn't that way. We disagree and agree....that's reality. Two apples from the same tree but different branches.
I deeply respect his right and courage to state his views. We a pair of cranky Irishmen.

Now this is just my viewpoint, but it seems that so many southerners are very afraid to get out of line so to speak, voice a differing opinion, etc. I've been told this by southereners, who explained it as "honoring tradition". When we express views here on TT that are counter to the mainstream, very often it's southerners who are so quick to call us "lefties" or worse. So what's up with that?

Hell, I'm probably more to the right than you on certain subjects. It doesn't matter. I don't care.”

“The willingness to offer a differing a viewpoint has never been a weakness of mine.

If I call someone a lefty, it has nothing to do with some sort of norm, it has to do with my perception of being left of center. For example, my take is that Mark, and possibly you too, somehow feel business is evil. I'm talking in general here. Is owning a business a bad thing? Does it make you evil? Some here go just short of this assertion, but I'm certain I've read the implications. No tb, I'm not going to research this either.”

“I've never said such a thing and never would. That's silly. Can businesses be "evil". The people who run them sure can act that way...it's human nature. But most are not. Government can be good and quite bad too.

No, it's the people who run either businesses or government who are "bad" or "evil".”

“My bad.”

“Kerry admits on Meet the Press that Rice was qualified for Secretary of State. He voted against her, because he disagreed with her decisions.

Of course he disagreed with her decisions. The Bush administration had a plan, the Democrats have none.”

“A plan to screw everything up.”

“What is screwed up?”

“Iraq is a fiarly gigantic mess.”

“Yep, that election turnout was a big mess.”

“Clinton bailed Social Security out by setting aside funds for it and GW spent it. Seems screwed up to me. I love all the rich people that think it's going to be great that we'll all have individual retirement accounts now when the majority of the people in this country can't save $100.”

“Bill Clinton said that social security need massive reform. When a Repubilcan says it, he is vilified by the left.”

“Clinton also earmarked funds to keep it going until that reform occurred. Bush stole that money from grandma and helped speed up the collapse of the system. He is a villian. Grandma needs some medicine but she can be rest assured that Iraq is free while her Diabetes goes unchecked.”

“What evidence do you have to back up that statement?”

“On Meet the Press today, John Kerry said that the social security crisis was a smoke screen by the Administration.

I don't know what he is thinking.”

“Maybe I'm just naive but I would never have thought that there was a chance that either would vote for Rice.”

“Bbw!

What don't the Republicans just fix Social Security? They have wide majorities in both houses of Congress. They have the presidency.

The real reason is that the Republicans are completely divided on this issue. The only thing stopping these private accounts are Republicans themselves.”

“Right, the right wing continues to act as if the trust fund cannot work but that is because during this administration they have not reduced the deficit or spending, both of which were promised by GW. With a budget surplus the government could act upon the bonds purchased through the Social Security system. Now that GW is failing to keep our system running under a fiscally responsible budget I'm expected to believe the system just sucks out right and is doomed to fail.”

“Social security is not a simple issue. The President has proposed a plan. No one else has. Hopefully someone else will, but with John Kerry saying there is no crisis, I don't expect any Democrats will be proposing a plan.”