right or wrong you decide

“I got your point loud and clear. It's that your point was not relavent to what I posted and I didn't agree with it. So yeah, if I don't agree with you it just MUST be that I'm 'ignernt'.”

“And another thing - I don't try to "redirect" or guide/shift debates at all. I multi-task here. I throw out points as they come to me while doing "work".

What's wrong with going in another direction? Isn't it all under the same issue anyway?

i guess what I'm trying to spit out is that I would never "shift" as a "tactic" in debate.

Many people debate here to win. I feel I am open to most ideas.


OK - Now I'm really truly done.”

“LMAO! I'm pretty damn 100% positive that wasn't my point and I'm not trying to get anyone to agree with me, dammit.

I can't even agree with me to get the #&%!$ out of this party!”

“It's not ok when you're dodging the question or issue. Don't want to try and justify the inequality of affirmative action? Hey, I'll just call everyone a bunch of race card thumpin' whinners and skirt the issue all together.”

“BM what exactly is your point about PG county and DWB? You just admitted that most of the cops in PG are black, so where's the racism? Seems to me they are on to something.

DWB is a catchy PC term that makes little sense in my opinion. If most of the crimes in the area were being committed by white red-haired males and there was a LOT of these crimes that was driving people in the area crazy and costing LOTS of money and ruining the schools....the cops would be pulling over lots of red-haired white guys.

Some, no, probably a lot of innocent red-haired white guys would be hassled. That's part of the price of crime and having people make excuses for it. Ask Bill Cosby about this.

Did you go by a different name here on TT before? I remember having this same discussion with another young, hip, urbane white guy on the make so to speak who was rattling off all the same worn out arguments...feeling sorry for the people gettin hassled by "the man". Wait a few years, get robbed a little, get your property stolen and then see how you feel about DWB.”

“A. My communication ability through cyberspace is my weakest form. And perhaps I could have worded my "race card whinning" response a little better.

I got your point loud and clear. It's that your point was not relavent to what I posted and I didn't agree with it. So yeah, if I don't agree with you it just MUST be that I'm 'ignernt'.”


2. Again, I really wasn't dodging anything and I thought it was relevant. I was saying "so"? Do you really think I think anyone's ignernt here?

I'm really confused now. I lost track of what i am trying to get across...........

Nigal - I would love to debate with you on another thread. I find your posts thought provoking and they help me refine my thoughts, however muddled they appear here.

I don't think of myself better than anyone here nor do I think anyone is "ignernt". In fact I am impressed with how you spelled that and struggled with it. LOL!

peace out. Honestly.








And for the frikken record - I believe Affirmative Action is wrong. I also believe a lot of things are wrong......................peeps being in the top 10.







Gotta get some coffee.”

“1. I think its great that there are folks n the southern states of the old confederacy who are proud of their heritage. Many people who fought in the civil war were fighting for their homes. The vast majority of those fighting did not own slaves or come from slave holding families. They viewed thier fight as the original fight to secede from England was viewed.

I would put Gojo in this category. A decent guy, proud of his heritage.


2. It is equally true that there are folks for whom the word "heritage" is a code word for racism. there are folks who identify the stars and bars as a symbol of white supremacy, and do not think that blacks, meixcans asians et al deserve an equal place at the table. These people are morons.

I am extremely suspect of an organization that is asking for the license plate revenue and is simultaneously protesting an NAACP meeting.

This isn't rocket science folks. Sure, there are a lot of good, legitimate reasons to take issue with aspects of the NAACP platform . .. but doing so while waving the stars and bars either means you are:

1. really really really dumb
2. or a racist
3. or both.

I don't care WHAT arguments you make to the contrary. I know, and you know, that sometime "heritage" is a code for racism. If you deny that, you are:

1. really really really dumb
2. or a racist
3. or both.


Lastly.

3. Come on folks. Raising the straw person of NAACP and The united Negro College fund, and questiong why there shouldn't be a NAAWP or a United White College fund is just plain stupid.

Follow this if you can: for 200 years blacks were brought to this hemisphere in chains, were enslaved, beaten, whipped, bought and sold as property.

And then, after 1865, for the next 100 years they were segregated, lynched and treated as thrid class citizens. The affects of which STILL linger today.

When YOU Nigal or YOU Ewker, can identify yourself as a member of a group that has been treated similarly, the YOU can start an organization to fight for your equal rights.

All joking aside, you should be ashamed. And if you aren't . ..it goes a long way to explaining your character.”

“OK, I'll come clean here. I don't really care that much and I've just been stringing ya along every sense you said you were done posting.

Sorry. Nyuck nyuck!”

“Nigal - Please, come to DC. Drinks on me. As many as it takes........”

“"All joking aside, you should be ashamed. And if you aren't . ..it goes a long way to explaining your character.”

Why so? Because I feel character is more important than color? Because I believe in the freedoms of others to fly whatever flag they want?”

“Just in case you thik I am a bleeding hearted liberal on this stuff, I am not.


Let's take the issue of reparations.


I think that it is absolutely bullsh!!t.

Blacks today are far far better off than if they had stayed in Africa 200 years ago.

All you have to do is look at the African continent. Pay half attention to the famine, the disease, the genocides in Rwanda and Darfur.

At an extreme, one could even go as far as to say that today's blacks should be greatful that their ancestors were captured and brought over here. That the rest of Ameria is owed by THEM for that priveledge.

That is a little ridiculous . ..but not much more so that than the arguement that they are somehow owed.


I am NOT in favor of affirmative action.

I am NOT in favor of quotas.”

“"I am NOT in favor of affirmative action.

I am NOT in favor of quotas.”

We agree. So why should I be ashamed of myself then?”

“Nigal --

I couldn't agree more:

Because I feel character is more important than color? Because I believe in the freedoms of others to fly whatever flag they want?””

“BM what exactly is your point about PG county and DWB? You just admitted that most of the cops in PG are black, so where's the racism? Seems to me they are on to something

Pulling someone over because they are black is racism, no matter what color the badge is.

"On to something"? Yes. Black youths commit more crime so we can pull them all over. You don't see the racism in that?”

“What would happen if an organization called The National Caucasion College fund was started?

What would happen if there was an organization called NAAWP (National Association for the Advancemnt of White People)?”
Nigal



Because. EIther you understand the fundemental difference in situation between blacks and white that can give rise to an organization like the NAACP at the turn of the last century and still legitimizes its existence today. And you realize why a similar organization titled the NAAWP would be inappropriate, or . . ..

you don't.”

“And . . .if you fail to recognize, or cannot recognize, the circumstances that appropriately gave birth to the NAACP and the United Negro College Fund . .then you should be ashamed.


I stand by it.”

“I wasn't on one side or the other on that. that's why I posed it as a question, not a statement. My question was posed to show how political correctness has taken us down a road that does not foster equality across the board.

I believe in any group's right to exist for whatever the cause is be it the NAACP, the KKK, the Arian Nation, white heterosexual males, and the boy scouts. Oh wait, they aren't allowed to. LOL! We are Americans and we have the right to be as good, positive, ugly and negative as we choose to be.”

“Well. I may be a liberal (at least by the definition of this board).

But I agree with this:

political correctness has taken us down a road that does not foster equality across the board.

I believe that most of the intolerant, narrow minded, hatefilled speech on college campuses today is coming out of the mouths of so called liberal tenured professors. by trying to squelch "un-PC" views they make a mockery of freedom of speech and open discussion.

2. However . . .I am much more of a social engineer than this:

believe in any group's right to exist for whatever the cause is be it the NAACP, the KKK, the Arian Nation, white heterosexual males, and the boy scouts. Oh wait, they aren't allowed to. LOL! We are Americans and we have the right to be as good, positive, ugly and negative as we choose to be.”


I believe that any group or person that doesn't agree with me is dumb. And shouldn't be allowed to exist.”

“lee, I have nothing to be ashamed of. Why should I. Sorry that it offends you that southern people want their heritage to stay around and you could care less about yours.
BTW you know nothing about my character, so quit assuming you do.


At least we all agree about Affirmative action and quotas!!”

“When my old man was a teenager in the '30s he was one of the first catholics to be hired by a certain drugstore chain.

Before that it was "No Catholics Need Apply".........D.C. was much more of a southern city then.

Ya know, "catholics followed a foreign dictator", or something like that.

Thank goodness that piece of "heritage" has withered.”

“Yes.... that's it BM. Cops are just dieing to pullover cars with black drivers. Now they have an excuse to have their fun. Gee Clydell..how many colored boys ya pull over an hassle today?

That's plainly stupid. Are there racist cops? Yes of course. Black ones too! That doesn't explain DWB. I was born and raised in and around DC as was my father who in his lifetime has seen the joint fall into it's current $hithole status.

Meanwhile, people like yourself are concerned with DWB and arguing over some die hard rednecks who fly a rebel flag. Sheesh! What a circle jerk.

That's cool. Your young and busy boinking (allegedly) chicks who like you have come from somewhere else to temporarily hang out in DC. That concerned, sensitive to the plight of the minority line worked for me years ago too. LOL. The sensitive-cool-guy-who-backpacks routine.

YeeHaa!!”

“What does DWB stand for? I'm assuming it's racial profiling by police officers.”

“Ewker --

If you want to get mad at me . ..do it for the right reasons:

“lee, I have nothing to be ashamed of. Why should I. Sorry that it offends you that southern people want their heritage to stay around and you could care less about yours.
BTW you know nothing about my character, so quit assuming you do


1. It doesn't offend me that Southern people are proud of their heritage. Here is what I had to say:


I think its great that there are folks n the southern states of the old confederacy who are proud of their heritage. Many people who fought in the civil war were fighting for their homes. The vast majority of those fighting did not own slaves or come from slave holding families. They viewed thier fight as the original fight to secede from England was viewed.

I would put Gojo in this category. A decent guy, proud of his heritage.



I hope I can put YOU in that category.


I absolutely stand by my statements that the defense of "heritage" in the case of the stars and bars is often code for bigotry and racism. Not always. Not even the majority. But often.

2. I am proud of my heritage. (thank you for making the following contrary assertion:

you could care less about yours.


On the wall of my office where I can see it now, I have a picuture of my grandfather, and his father gathered with a group of workers at Lawley's shipyard in Neponset MA. The picture is dated 1915. Never a more stereotypical group of Irish boatworking thugs have you ever seen. They came down from Nova Scotia looking for work. They were woodworkers/craftsmen. My mohter's family emigrated from Ireland before the war (revolutionary) and settled in the Fishkill area of NY (near Poughkeepsie). There were a couple of Greenes srving with the continental army.

But thanks for asking.


Lastly

3.

BTW you know nothing about my character, so quit assuming you do.


My comments about character were made in reference to peoples ability to distinguish between the circumstances that spawned, and still legitimize organizations like the NAACP and the United Negro College fund and trying to make equivalent any such organizations named the NAAWP or United White college fund.


Again. Giving you the benefit of the doubt. I assume you understand the difference in spite of your response to Nigal's question about what would happen if two such organizations were proposed.

I stand by my statement. If you can't make the distinction:

1. You should be ashamed

2. It doesn't speak well of your character.


Again Ewker. I assume that you do make a distinction.”

“Wow JO. I believe everyone was being respectful, or trying to, until you showed up.

So racial profiling is a myth? Racial profiling, if it exists, leads to no other type of racism?

So what level of racism shall we concern ourselves with? What would make you happy? I mean, I apologize for discussing something here that's trivial to you. please forgive me.

That's cool. Your young and busy boinking (allegedly) chicks

Why does this bug so many people here? Do I question if your wife/partner is allegedly beautiful? or that she allegedly puts out? Tell me, how is your alleged sex life? Unlike some on here, I see no reason to question people. Maybe the ones that do are only allegedly happy?

Thanks for the young comment.


who like you have come from somewhere else to temporarily hang out in DC.

I planned to move here for years and have been here for almost 6. What amount of time do I have to live here for it to be legitimate for you? When should I start to be concerned? or should I act like rural people (let the generalization go) expect me to act, "city slicker" that could care less about his environment and his community.

tell me, JO. I'm here only to meet your lofty ideals.



That concerned, sensitive to the plight of the minority line worked for me years ago too. LOL. The sensitive-cool-guy-who-backpacks routine.

And you end at your lowest. An empty insult from a "clever" wise Man of the World. So I will answer this one with all the attention it deserves:”

“This is a bit off topic but…I mentioned on another thread that I watched a fascinating show on Trio about the history, usage and changing of the meaning of the word niggar. One civil rights speaker used the word liberally back in the 60s and he defended his use of the word by saying something along the lines of, “If we become so correct that we obscure or do away with offensive things like the word niggar, then aren’t we opening ourselves up to obscuring and doing away with other things? Imagine if we got to the point where no one would say the words “Auzuich”, or “holocaust”? It’s a loss of history.”.”

“lee, your not making me mad at all. Sorry I skipped over the part you wrote about your hertiage. Glad you are proud of it.

But as far as what Nigal mentioned about those 2 groups, yes all hell would break loose.
Those groups would be called racist in a heartbeat.

BTW isn't white a color, so I guess we could all fit under the NAACP. I doubt that they would defend/help you though.”

“Dear DC PC BM,

Thanks for calling my ideals "lofty". I never imagined such a thing being said. And "Man of the World". Wow!!! I was just busting your balls sissy. If can't take it.....go cry to some intern. That works with some chicks....but not the southern ones.

Why the "allegedly" remark? Hey...what the hell. You're stupid enough to open up yourself to ridicule when you talk about personal matters so much. Remember Dana and her stupid stories about her and her husband having sex?

No, you don't make comments about my girlfriend or my sex-life because I never bring it up and never would. I don't need to. You lack the class, good taste, common sense, some $hit to keep it to yourself.

Perhaps you need a lot of attention and this is your way of getting it. Yeah I seriously doubt your talk...you're ridiculous. Guys who talk about it a lot are usually full of $hit. But then who knows and who cares...maybe you're one busy bee. Buzz on buddy.

Like I said before, while you fuss about racism and DWB the city is going to hell. Put down your coffe and the Washington Post or Baltimore Sun. Go get a job teaching in a city school, get a job as a cop and see the town.

I guess that last remark of mine realy hurt huh? Truth hurts....but it'll set ya free.”

“Correct me if I am wrong.

The confederacy desired independence and tried to secede. They were beaten squarely. And it is somehow a good thing that those who would have ripped this nation in two are "honored" with license plates. That seems ludicrous to me. As an American how can anyone honor the cause that nearly caused our nation to crumble?

Get over it, the south lost. It was darn near 150 years ago.

Honor your family by reading their journals looking at pics and studying their past.

I cant see a bunch of Nazi's in germany wnating to fly swastikas to honor "german heritge", its a veil. (No I am not calling southerners Nazis,I am drawing a parallel to the losing side not letting go)”

“This has nothing to do with me not honoring my heritage or anyone elses. But lets be honest hear, are we honoring the individual or the cause. Honoring rebellion that nearly destroyed us seems nuts to me.

No the south isnt full of second class citizens. That sound silly to have to even say it.”

“What would happen if there was an organization called NAAWP (National Association for the Advancement of White People)?

There is such an organization.
www.naawp.com

Their only purpose seems to be to complain about black people. It doesn't matter what the subject is. As long as black folks are involved they have a complaint.

Unfortunately I've meet the head of the local branch of that organization. It is my belief that reverse racism isn't what is keeping her and those like her from succeeding. Abject stupidity keeps them from succeeding.

Apparently the local organization here fell apart after the president embezzled some cash in order to keep her home and the organizations headquarters from being repossessed.

Yep, it was a mobile home.

Nope, I am not sh|tting you.
last edited: 1/21/05 1:27:48 PM”

“Thanks for calling my ideals "lofty". I never imagined such a thing being said. And "Man of the World". Wow!!! I was just busting your balls sissy. If can't take it.....go cry to some intern. That works with some chicks....but not the southern ones.

Cry? I was venting and it felt damn good, asswipe. From my experience "Suthern" chicks are the biggest suckers I've met so far.

Why the "allegedly" remark? Hey...what the hell. You're stupid enough to open up yourself to ridicule when you talk about personal matters so much. Remember Dana and her stupid stories about her and her husband having sex?

Good point and I try to keep that in mind. I am who i am. My point was it had nothing to do with this thread. or was that the "ball busting" act?

No, you don't make comments about my girlfriend or my sex-life because I never bring it up and never would. I don't need to. You lack the class, good taste, common sense, some $hit to keep it to yourself.

Even trailer trash accuse people of having these deficiencies.

Perhaps you need a lot of attention and this is your way of getting it. Yeah I seriously doubt your talk...you're ridiculous. Guys who talk about it a lot are usually full of $hit. But then who knows and who cares...maybe you're one busy bee. Buzz on
buddy.

Obviously you care. I also talk about masturbation a lot. Does that mean I don't masturbate? Thanks for the overall generalization. I don't talk about it when I'm not getting any. therefore you must not be getting any.

Like I said before, while you fuss about racism and DWB the city is going to hell. Put down your coffe and the Washington Post or Baltimore Sun. Go get a job teaching in a city school, get a job as a cop and see the town.

When did you last live in the city? How do you know it's going to hell. Because you're a "teacher"?

I guess that last remark of mine realy hurt huh? Truth hurts....but it'll set ya free.”

No. It's such a standard, rote, retort that it deserved no response. it was a "phrase" one might memorize. Like from someone who never uses logic.

What grade do you teach?”

“Yes.
Now...in Baltimore.
High School.

Well.....so,uh......I didn't know you'd posted before about jerkin your gerkin. Far out. How enlightened of you.

Good luck.”

“So you get your current knowledge of DC from.....................?”