right or wrong you decide

“Bill Would Allow S.C. Confederate Group to Collect Cash From License Plate Sales
Thursday, January 20, 2005

COLUMBIA, S.C. — A South Carolina Senate committee has passed a bill that would allow the Sons of Confederate Veterans to get back some of the money made through selling its special license plates.

While the SCV license tags have been on the road for years, profits from them now go into the state's budget.

"All we want to do is be treated like other people who have a special tag," said Don Gordon, chairman of the state SCV's Heritage Defense Committee

Other groups with special tags, like colleges and Rotarians, get to keep money from their plates.

The tags cost $30 more than regular license plates. After covering administrative and production expenses, the remaining money would go to Gordon's group. Gordon did not know how much the tag sales would raise. "It is a minimal, minimal amount of money," he said.

News that the state may help put money into the coffers of the Sons of Confederate Veterans comes just two days after that group's members picketed the South Carolina NAACP's annual "King Day at the Dome" march and rally at the Statehouse.


The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People continues to press economic sanctions against South Carolina because a Confederate flag flies at a monument outside the Statehouse. The group says the banner, considered a symbol of hate by some and heritage for others, should be removed from all "positions of sovereignty."

Lonnie Randolph, chairman of the state NAACP Conference of Branches, said he has not seen the license tag bill. "I hope that the state will not continue to serve as an overseer for such activities as that," Randolph said.

"I have serious concerns about the state putting itself in that position," Randolph said. "What will they do when the next white supremacist group comes looking for support?"

Gordon said his group is about Southern heritage and does not support white supremacy.

But Randolph said many of the SCV's members also are members of the League of the South, a group that wants a "sovereign State of South Carolina" and has been labeled a Confederate hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center. The League of the South denies that.

As a precaution, all groups that receive tag money should have to file reports on how the cash is used, said Sen. Robert Ford, D-Charleston.

"The state's got to make sure the money is used for something that would not embarrass the state," Ford said.

The Senate Transportation Committee did not discuss the bill at Wednesday's meeting, approving it without a vote at the end of a session focusing on changes to the state's seat belt laws.

"We need to take look at that," said Senate Transportation Committee Chairman Greg Ryberg, R-Aiken. Ryberg said after the meeting he thought the group already received cash from the tag sales.

Passing the bill out without discussion "was a big mistake," said Sen. Clementa Pinckney, D-Ridgeland. "I didn't realize that's what it did”

“I understand both sides of this argument. I am a big Civil War nut. That side of me says this is a heritage issue. I think the slogan goes something like "Hertiage not hate."

Now people will say that that is a part of our history we should forget and put out of our minds. I don't think we should put it away. We need to inform the younger generations of the mistake and provide the tools to learn about it.”

“Not trying to offend here.

You cannot have war without hate. To an outsider, this overzealous "pride" in your "heritage" and the way a Southerner expresses it is odd. this usually occurs with a defeated side that becomes second class citizens. But the South is not a victim and hardly 2nd class.

How come we have no desire to put Revolutionary war flags up?

Calling it "your heritage" seems like an excuse.”

“But the South is not a victim and hardly 2nd class.

How come we have no desire to put Revolutionary war flags up?

Calling it "your heritage" seems like an excuse.”
Bearmagnet
10:07:53 AM
1/20/05

BM, no excuse at all. would you like your heritage to be wiped out.

BTW southerner's are still treated like 2nd class citizens from northern people. Not saying all do but some do.

If other groups are receiving money from their license plates I see no reason why they shouldn't. If they didn't want them to have the license plate they shouldn't have allowed it to get that far.”

“BTW southerner's are still treated like 2nd class citizens from northern people. Not saying all do but some do.


Ewker, I understand what you are saying. But, if that "2nd class citizen" thing is really what you take it as, then I have to classify the following in the same manner. The stereotypes that you speak of are no better or worse than those that we receive locally as New Yorkers. Man, I have been hering this negative stuff for more years than I can count and it hasn't gone away. I just try my best to thicken my skin and not get into it too much with those that perpetuate it...”

“Your heritage is not being wiped out, nor is a war "heritage". I bet more people use that flag to incite/provoke than for any other so called reason. I don't see any other flags from any other war that are flown or displayed as a source of pride in ones heritage.”

“Thank you for the kind words, Treebeard.”

“People from the south are no more 2nd class citizans than Californians are all fruits and nuts. These attitudes are held within individual people. Go to the south just once and all your preconcieved notions will forever be wiped away.

As for the issue at hand I don't choose right or wrong. I choose I don't care. The rebel flag is not a symble of hate or slavery. It is a symble of a region.”

“BM, more people were killed in the Civil War than all of the other wars combined so yes war is part of our heritage.

you still didn't answer me about what you would do if people started protesting your heritage.

There are a lot of people in the south and they are extremely proud of their southern heritage. Maybe that is something you are not familiar with.”

“Stovie, although it was Florida I lived in for 9 years, I spent a lot of time in the "less touristy" areas of Central Florida, and Georgia. I loved a lot of what I experienced in the south.”

“Nigal, your right. Once people once come to the south they are totally suprised.

I remember the very first time I was in New York City. I came up with a school group to go to the World's Fair. The looks and comments we got unreal. I went along with it just to appease the people. I was asked what I was doing wearing shoes, why I had my sunday best on, how come I wasn't chewing on a piece of straw.

Problem is a lot of people still see the south that way.

There are Yankees and damn Yankees. Yankees come and visit then go back home. Damn Yankees come to visit then end up staying...lol”

“I'm not sure about the organization in question here, but if they are a legitimate organization (like the rotarians or whatnot), then perhaps they should be entitled to the same privilege tht the others are, as long as all is in accordance with the law. From the sounds of it, they don't sound like a group that I would personally support, but that is not at issue here. It's more an issue of whether they are actually being discriminated against. Again, I know nothing of their legitimacy as a group...”

“The charge of raceism might carry a little more weight if it didn't come from the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People .

Try to imagine to hue and cry if we started the National Association for the Advancement of White People.”

“Let em keep the money just like all the other groups. The war (Civil War, aka War of Northern Aggression was over long ago.”

“you still didn't answer me about what you would do if people started protesting your heritage.

And you never answered why the reb flag and no other "heritage" flags are displayed or why you would think of a single symbol as your "heritage".

There are a lot of people in the south and they are extremely proud of their southern heritage. Maybe that is something you are not familiar with.”

Lets stay civil, please? :) Once again, Revolutionary war is your heritage, where are those flags?
last edited: 1/20/05 10:59:10 AM”

“they fly everyday..US Flag, of course it has been modified over the yrs”

“lots of southern states had/have there own flag that were tied to the civil war. Some still fly today others don't except in people's yards.

I know of lots of places that fly the US Flag, then the state flag and lastly the Confederate flag all on the same pole”

“Right. And lots of "State" Militias had their own flags during the revo war, no?

No one seems interested in using those as a symbol of heritage.”

“that is the north for ya, no concern about their heritage

see told you that maybe you weren't familar with it ;)”

“

"The Gadsden Flag: The American Revolutionary period was a time of intense but controlled individualism - when self-directing responsible individuals again and again decided for themselves what they should do, and did it- without needing anyone else to give them an assignment or supervise them in carrying it out.

Such a person was the patriot Colonel Christopher Gadsden of South Carolina. He had seen and liked a bright yellow banner with a hissing, coiled rattlesnake rising up in the center, and beneath the serpent the same words that appeared on the Striped Rattlesnake Flag - Don't Tread On Me. Colonel Gadsden made a copy of this flag and submitted the design to the Provincial Congress in South Carolina. Commodore Esek Hopkins, commander of the new Continental fleet, carried a similar flag in February, 1776, when his ships put to sea for the first time."

;)”

“BM, haven't you seen that flag flying before. I have just didn't know that is came from the RW....I did notice the guy was from the south ;)”

“

The Guilford Flag: This unusual flag was made with thirteen 8-pointed stars in a wide field. Historical records report this flag carried by North Carolina militiamen at the Battle of Guilford Courthouse, March 17,1781

My my my, all these Southern heritage flags. :D”

“thanks another southern flag..did the northern states have any ;)”

“

Wouldn't this one be better to show pride in?”

“Well we had the best of course ;)



Vermont Militia, battle of Bennington. I've seen the Original.”

“now that I answered your questions what about the one I asked you. I am being civil =)
last edited: 1/20/05 11:34:40 AM”

“rainbow coalition flag???”

“I knew Nigal would be first! LOL!

Who protests my heritage? I am a straight white male living in DC. I am of the Majority/ruling caste of this country but a minority where I live.

I get assaulted most days. ;)”

“Not all flags represent things that the whole of our population feels is good. Yet we simply say, "Well, that's their right.".

Sidenote: I heard a story on npr that Hindues want the ban on the swastica lifted as it was origanally one of their religious symbles.”

“BM, yes you are a minority living in DC. Do you get special beneifits that most minorities receive”

“Nigal has a point. But how far does one take it? Shall we have Klan plates from Indiana?

I knew some Georgians up here that really disliked any mention of Gen. Sherman. What if we praised Shermans March as a concerted effort?

BTW - I believe the swastika is backwards from a Chinese symbol. Maybe it's a hindu symbol to but I think the only "ban" in place is Germany, no?”

“IMO, there is a difference between a Klan plate and the one SC already has. They are just wanting the extra money like everyone else is already getting.”

“The European Union is going to ban it too and I think it already is banned in more than one country.”

“I don't see any minorities benefiting from their ethnicity.”

“Bawhahahahaha! Here in Ohio the waiting list for a white male on the State Police application list is like 5 years. A black woman waits a year at the most.”

“BM, lives in a dream world.

Nigal, I bet it goes black female, black male, white female then white male.

In some cases the white female will be before the black male”

“That's true, I am afraid. White males are at the bottom of the politically correct field of selection, unfortunately.”

“Yes, I guess I live in a dream world. Somehow, the minorities have not kept me down.

I'm really trying to be civil here and not judgemental. But to me, you all are doing the same thing a black community does when someone gets hurt by a white cop - immediately blame ethnicity.”

“No Ewker, it goes, black female, black male, white female, illegal immigrant and THEN white males. LOL!”

“oops, I forgot about the illegals.

BM, it is odd when a black cop does something wrong it doesn't make the press like it does when a white cop does something wrong!!
last edited: 1/20/05 12:56:18 PM”

“Not really, Bear. I inputed here only because it came up. It's not baggage I carry around. Just an observation. Unfortunately, lots of things have to be politically correct these days or someone gets pissed off. Just the state of things in the world. Not on any crusade against it...”

“You missed the point BearMag and shifted the issue in only the direction you want it to go in (as always). you stated you had no knowledge of what benifits a minority might get. And I gave one and you promptly say I'm crying foul. I don't feel cheated or feel as if someone's getting one up on me. I get what I have myself with no hand outs. One of these days MLK's Dream will be realized, we will do away with affirmative action and each man and woman will be judged on their character alone and not their color.

What would happen if an organization called The National Caucasion College fund was started?

What would happen if there was an organization called NAAWP (National Association for the Advancemnt of White People)?”

“Tree - I was replyiny to Ewker. Everyone get's discriminated against now, even white males, is that what we're fuming about? LOL!

BM, it is odd when a black cop does something wrong it doesn't make the press like it does when a white cop does something wrong!!

We have an equal opportunity press here. ;) PG County police have been investigated by the justice dept. for brutality and cover ups by the prosecution. I think more than once since I've been in DC.

On another thread I mentioned young Black people carry lawyer cards in PG b/c of the frequency of DWB pull-overs. I also mentioned that PG was probably the most affluent Black majority community in the US.

I'm wondering if anyone made the connection that the Police Force must be predominately Black?

Or did no one think it interesting that Black Cops were pulling over Black youths for DWB?

I know the Post explored this issue.”

“Nigal, I know what would happen. All HELL would break loose”

“You missed the point BearMag and shifted the issue in only the direction you want it to go in (as always).

No I didn't on both counts. This "acussation" gets old so i didn't go beyond it. Guess I'm done here. see ya on the "fun" threads, K? ;)”

“See Ewker, you were correct that segrogation happens naturally. So it's no surprise when minorities segrogate themselves through groups like this.

Here in Dayton they have reversed their bussing programs. Why? Because black parents wanted their black children to go to school in their own neigborhoods with their own neighbors. THEY don't want forced segrogation.”

“See why I rarely reply to you now BearMag? A discussion about the color of the sky turns bad. :)”

“Stop trying to drag me back in here, it won't work!”

“How come it never occurs to you that you missed the point?

Right. I'm done in here!”