Is Iran Next?? Where will it end??

“http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,145040,00.html

WASHINGTON — President Bush refuses to rule out war with Iran. Iranian President Mohammad Khatami says his country is ready to defend itself against a U.S. attack. The United States is pushing for a peaceful solution to its nuclear impasse with Iran but, with mistrust on both sides running high, encouraging signs are hard to find.

"You look around the world at potential trouble spots, Iran is right at the top of the list," Vice President Dick Cheney said Thursday in an interview with radio host Don Imus, hours before being sworn in to a second term.

Asked hypothetically whether the United States would yield to Israel in a scenario in which an attack against Tehran was being considered, he said, "One of the concerns people have is that Israel might do it without being asked, that if in fact the Israelis became convinced the Iranians had a significant nuclear capability, given the fact that Iran has a stated policy that their objective is the destruction of the state of Israel, that the Israelis might well decide to act first and let the rest of the world worry about cleaning up the diplomatic mess afterward."

"We don't want a war in the Middle East if we can avoid it," Cheney quickly added, "and certainly, in the case of the Iranian situation, I think everybody would best suited by, and or best treated or dealt with, if we could deal with it diplomatically

On Monday, Bush reaffirmed his support for a diplomatic settlement of Iran's nuclear program but said, "I will never take any option off the table."

Perhaps the most pessimistic comment of all this week came from Sen. Joseph Biden, D-Del.

"There may be nothing we can do to persuade Iran not to develop weapons of mass destruction," Biden said during a Senate Foreign Relations Committee confirmation hearing for Secretary of State-designate Condoleezza Rice.

Both Rice and Cheney made clear that the nuclear diplomacy the United States has been pursuing in the U.N. nuclear watchdog agency will continue.

They said the administration could raise the stakes with Iran by referring the nuclear question to the U.N. Security Council if Iran does not abide by its nonproliferation commitments.

The administration has been hopeful that a nonproliferation initiative being carried out with Iran by Germany, France and Britain will produce results.

But the administration is skeptical that Iran is bargaining in good faith. For its part, Iran says its nuclear program is aimed at producing energy, not weapons.

Rice said U.S. differences with Iran go well beyond its nuclear program.

"It's really hard to find common ground with a government that thinks Israel should be extinguished," she told senators. "It's difficult to find common ground with a government that is supporting Hezbollah and terrorist organizations that are determined to undermine the Middle East peace that we seek."

Beyond that, Rice listed Iran among six "outposts of tyranny."

Khatami, traveling Thursday in Africa, seemed unconcerned about the consequences of a possible U.S. attack.

"We have prepared ourselves," he said. He added that he did not anticipate any "lunatic" military move by the United States because Washington has too many problems in Iraq.

According to an article by Seymour Hersh published this week in The New Yorker, U.S. officials have been trying to get to the bottom of Iran's nuclear puzzle through a covert operation inside Iran that has been under way since last summer.

Defense Department officials said the article was filled with mistakes but did not deny its basic point.”

“The Crusades or Napolean come to mind....”

“I'm sorry. Who asks "Why do They hate us"?

Living in fear of an attack must be so nice. I wonder if the average citizen of these "bad" countries stress out every time there's an incident? Hoping there country isn't fingered?

Now why should Iran give up its Nuclear Weapons if the US is threatening? What lessons might be learned from Iraq? Oh yeah, They might attack even if we don't have weapons so don't get caught with your pants down.

i'm sure we're making North Korea very nervous. So nice to be the only bully on the block.”

“BM, I am sure North Korea is on the agenda, along with Syria..don't forget the US is under his thumb also.”

“It's kind of sickening. I think most of the World hates us and I'm not so sure I blame them.

I remember in polisci studying the Balances of Power, studying what would happen if the Soviet Union was out of the picture?

I recall China being considered as filling the vacuum more than a Bullying Empire wanna be US. I recall studying in detail why the US can't be an Empire.

Thinking we are invicible is extremly dangerous. Rome got there butts kicked by the "little people".

Was it not the Republicans that said 'we are not the worlds police'?

gotta go.”

“N. Korea scares me way more than Iran.”

“A war with North Korea would last about 20 minutes and that's the scary part.”

“I have little doubt that in 2005 or early 2006 we will be attacking Iran. It may be nothing more than airstrikes but, we will attack Iran. Everybody knows that there are WMD's in Iran. Bush cannot save face in Iraq no matter what happens from this day forward. Just as he shifted from fighting Bin Laden to Saddam, he will shift the fighting from Iraq to Iran. There will be WMD's present and he will feel he has justified his middle eastern conquest. We are not so bogged down in Iraq that we cannot sucessfully attack Iran. Our military works best on the offensive with guns blazing. The role we are playing in Iraq right now is that of policeman. Soldiers don't make the best policemen. A soldier is trained to kill using very violent means. The real nightmare will be if we do actually invade Iran. The people of Iran hate us even more than the people of Iraq. Playing the role of policeman there will be deadly. The American body bag flow will be manyfold what it is now.

Forty-eight percent of the voters were against this kind of thinking. That is not enough to have a majority but, at least we aren't lonely.”

“How do liberals always manage to take something good and spin it into a negative?

Why don't we ever hear of any plans from the Democrats? It is always negative spin, never a positive idea. I think America has caught on.”

“bbw, Invading Iran is good? Heck lets just over throw every country. In your mind that would be good also.”

““How do liberals always manage to take something good and spin it into a negative?"


How come bbw is always spinning legitimate criticism of Bush's foreign policy into something else?”

“bbw, I hate to inform you but, I'm a veteran and a lifelong Republican. One does not have to be a liberal to understand that we were wrong to invade Iraq. Saddam was contained and disarmed. Should Sadddam have been removed from power? I think so yes but, I think it could have been done peacefully. The world asked for proof of WMD's in Iraq. Our answer to the world was we are going in regardless of what you think. Our invasion has resulted in little more than the death of our soldiers and the hatred of the world. I do believe that Iran is developing WMD's and should be stopped. Unfortunately, we have destroyed our trust with those that would have been by our side.”

“FOUR MORE WARS!
FOUR MORE WARS!
FOUR MORE WARS!”

“it's the beginning of the end”

“I gotta tell ya gang, I personally don’t like the direction we’re taking with this “democracy in the mid-east at any cost” policy. I saw an interview with the one writer from the New Yorker and what he had to say was sobering. He basically said the plan is to recon Iran, get the goods on their nukes, go to the UN and force their hand again and then when they object we go it alone again. How factual this is I don’t know but if it is I’m apposed to it.

President Bush likes to speak at length about freedom but I’m really not feeling like a foreign power coming in and imposing a system on the citizens is my exact idea of freedom. I would think real freedom would be allowing people in other countries to choose for themselves what system they want and if they are in a dictatorship where they do not have the power to choose we should let them take care of themselves and overthrow their own damn governments. Were I a person living in a mid-east country today I would probably view our new policy in much the same way we viewed the USSR’s policies in the late 70s-early 80s.

Now before anyone starts accussing me of having buyer’s regret for having voted for Bush I’m still not sorry. I just think it’s important for us (especially us conservatives who voted for him) to hold his feet to the fire on this issue.”

“It'll end up in our backyard again.

Thanks, George.”

“I do think there is a complexity to the Iran problem though that will make it inevitable. The Israeli factor. Israel being the biggest (ok, sole) target of Iran and it’s nukes, will take action weather we do or not.”

“Nigal, congrats to you for standing up against him on this topic. I know you voted for him and that is ok. At least you have the intelligence to see where he is leading this country (talking about Iran)and it isn't good. Just be prepared to receive crap from the other conservatives who think Bush does no wrong.
last edited: 1/27/05 8:26:56 AM”

“Anyone else see FRONTLINE the other night?

AlQaeda's New Front”

“He wants tO rebIuLd the Middle East.
last edited: 1/27/05 8:27:54 AM”

“lol@aero”

“Didn't he say he opposed "nation building?"”

“Yes he did but "bombing then REbuilding nations" is okey dokey. LOL!”

“Ah, Si Senor!”

“
Bomb bomb bomb,
Bomb bomb Iran

Bomb bomb bomb,
Bomb bomb Iran

You got me rockin' and a-rollin'
Rockin' and a-reelin'
Bomb Iran
”

“"if they are in a dictatorship where they do not have the power to choose we should let them take care of themselves and overthrow their own damn governments" - Nigal

Modern technology often prevents resistance from organizing. Without organization, there's little chance of affecting a coup. What do we do in these situations, if our security relies on others' liberty like Bush claims?”

“I saw the same guy, Seymour Hirsch, Nigal. Like you, I don't know how on target he is. The good news from him is that the neo-cons no longer want to invade and occupy Iran. The bad news is that they sound fairly determined to star military action against Iran, hoping that if they cripple the radical mullahs from the air, that the people will rise up and overthrow them - it sounds like wishful thinking to me.”

“It does sound familiar, doesn't it?”

“How come American Citizens are allowed to vote in the Iraqi election?

Why is the Ambassador to Iraq an American?”

“What do we do in these situations, if our security relies on others' liberty like Bush claims?”
Oryx
9:43:43 AM

That's assuming our security was threatened. I think, in the caes of Iraq, it's a no-brainer that our security was not threated as immediately as it was presented to us. SOTU speech: Sadaam is capable of launching warheads that will reach the U.S. in 45 minutes? Get real!

THE TEXT:
The danger to our country is grave and it is growing. The Iraqi regime possesses biological and chemical weapons, is rebuilding the facilities to make more and, according to the British government, could launch a biological or chemical attack in as little as 45 minutes after the order is given. The regime has long-standing and continuing ties to terrorist groups, and there are al Qaeda terrorists inside Iraq. This regime is seeking a nuclear bomb, and with fissile material could build one within a year.”

““Modern technology often prevents resistance from organizing. Without organization, there's little chance of affecting a coup. What do we do in these situations, if our security relies on others' liberty like Bush claims?”

Pardon me if I sound like a callous isolationist but that is their problem. We could turn it around and ask, “Is our destruction solely based upon the lack of liberties of others?”. IMHO no. If the junk yard dog don’t chase you then don’t go over and kick the son of bltch. If he comes at you, shoot him.

We as a nation do not have the spine nor the desire to see other nations enjoy the same freedoms we do. If the lattes and the iPods run out we may be moved to action but until then just leave us alone.”

“Just to beat bitpusher to it...

”

“http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_778.html

This site lists the ways to lose citizenship...the thing is, if you do any of these things, all you have to do is state verbally that you did not intend to renounce your citizenship and you're automatically ok'd as a citizen...weird...
last edited: 1/27/05 9:32:39 AM”

“Loss of U.S. nationality was almost immediate consequences of foreign military service and the other acts listed in Section 349(a) until 1967 when the Supreme Court handed down its decision in Afroyim v. Rusk , 387 U.S. 253. In that decision, the court declared unconstitutional the provisions of Section 349(a) which provided for loss of nationality by voting in a foreign election. In so doing, the Supreme Court indicated foreign election. In so doing, the Supreme Court indicated that a U.S. citizen "has a constitutional right to remain a citizen... unless he voluntarily relinquishes that citizenship."

Further confirmation of the necessity to establish the citizen's intent to relinquish nationality before expatriation will result came in the opinion in Vance v. Terrazas , 444 U.S. 252 (1980). The Court stated that "expatriation depends on the will of the citizen rather than on the will of Congress and its assessment of his conduct." The Court also indicated that a person's intention to relinquish U.S. citizenship may be shown by statements or actions.

Cut and pasted from the site above...the errors in grammer and content are theirs.
last edited: 1/27/05 9:50:23 AM”

“Sy Hersh is plenty credible and has good sources as proven by his history of breaking important stories. I haven't seen him on the TV lately (I missed his 'Daily Show' appearance) but his last story in the New Yorker is available online: http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?050124fa_fact

You'd think Iraq would have taught the neocons about the limits of unilateral action.”

“The thing that I don’t understand is that we have always been a nation that uses the carrot and the stick method. It seems the only use we have for the carrot now is in drawing nations close enough to beat them with the stick rather than just leading them where we want to go. Don’t get me wrong, I think we should get rid of the damn carrot and just hold the stick behind our back in a non-threatening manner.”

“Certainly one thing to contemplate is that IRAN has said repeatedly, "Israel cannot act on it's own without support from the USA"

Iranian troops are massed on the Iraqi border NOW. Any attack on IRAN by air will still result in a ground conflict with coalition forces in the Mideast because the Iranians would then cross the border to engage the nearest US Troops....

That is their stated intent, not some idea I dreamed up.”

“We are stabilizing the Middle East.
We've invaded countries on either side or Iran, thus proving they have no need for nuclear weapons.””

“Wow....very brave of you Nigal....smart too.

I think that very possibly Seymour Hirsch was leaked that info on purpose. Whether to soften up the US public or to try to derail Bush's plans....I don't know.”

“Sounds like a party.”

“I think my question was: apparently US citizens that can claim Iraqi ancestry are being allowed to vote in America for Iraq elections.

This is the model of Democracy we want to show them, yes? One that has worked for the US countless times - Ballot Box Stuffing.”

“Anyone remember the game that was posted here pre-war that showed a timeline with conflicts of what would happen if we invaded? It was a flash animation type of thing. I wish I knew where that link was. It seems like stage II in their scenario was this particular topic.”

“Stage II - denial.”

“Stage I: Collect underpants
Stage II: ?
Stage III: Big profits”

“Iran actually offers more freedoms than any other muslim nation in the Middle East. Compared to other muslim nations in the region, there are multiple political parties, significant freedom of expression, true elections, and respect for minorities (Iran even has a Jewish population).

Of course, Iran cannot compare to the freedoms offered in the US or Israel and the country is far from perfect; its support for terrorists in the past is alarming. Nevertheless, our demonization of Iran is not accurate, the country is far more free than say Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, etc.”

“Blah Blah Blah.........Iran cannot compare to the freedoms offered in the US or Israel and the country is far from perfect; its support for terrorists.....?????????????????????????????”

“They were far more free before we started rattling the ol' saber and the mullahs said "see... we were right" before banning all the reform candidates.”

“The same neocon liars and Israeli Firsters that goaded George Bush to invade Iraq are pushing him to start bombing Iran. These wars aren\'t and never were for the security of the United States. They are all about the security of Israel and a constant supply of oil that can be purchased with US$.
>
Some right wing Israelis not only want to dominate the entire Middle East, they actually believe "God" promised them all the land from the Tigris to the Nile. For the geographically challenged that includes most of Iraq, Syria, and part of Egypt. They can\'t do this if anyone else besides them has nuclear weapons. Hence, now you hear W talking about the danger of the Iranians. Bush is totally under the influence of Cheney, AIPAC, Nathan Sharansky, Wolfowitz, Feith, et. al. IMO this is getting spooky and very dangerous. Bush, ever the idiot that he is, could wind up starting WWIII.

The oil angle. The people who really run this country are worried to death that OPEC and the rest of the oil producing countries are going to want Euros instead of dollars for their oil. If we control Iraq then at least the Iraqis have to sell their oil in dollars.

Why you might ask is the rest of the world thinking Euros instead of dollars? The world is flush with fiat printed dollars. Every time the congress raises the debt ceiling the presses at the Bureau of Engraving start working 24/7. It's only paper. There is no gold or silver behind it. Only the word of the U.S. government. A lot of people in other countries are beginning to doubt the word of the U.S. government. And with George Bush at the helm I can see why. All I can say is get ready for your standard of living to decline in the next five years and get out of the market. Put your 401Ks in fixed account funds etc.”

“Does that mean that we're no longer on the gold standard? That now, we are on the tin foil standard, headed for the ball of string?


sorry! carry on...”