Does Bush know how to balance a check bo ok?

“where is $80 billion supposed to come from to pay for this pointless and ilegal war? Last time I checked we were in the red. Plus NPR was saying tonight that the SS overhaul is going to cost several Trillion.

Bush says he'll balance the budget in 5 years. Good luck!
last edited: 1/25/05 5:44:58 PM”

“"pointless and ilegal war?"

EarthNsky
5:38:48 PM
1/25/05

Scary attitude... How you doin' Neville?”

“Same place Kerry was going to get it.”

“All war is pointless.”

“Bison, can you say W M D?”

“Iraq was a mistake and it's costing too much money (and blood). I think we should pick up and leave cuz we should have never gone in the first place. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

I'm not a policy maker though and after 30 more emergency apropriation spendings, we'll finally get up and leave iraq. It'll probably be in the same mess it is today.
last edited: 1/25/05 6:08:52 PM”

“the-naviguesser Yes, exactly where are they? are you one of these numbskulls who can say that we knew absolutely that the WMD wasn't there before we went in? There is absolutely no question that in the past there was WMD, and Saddam refused to document what happened to it. If you base the safety of your family and friends on Saddam's assurance that he wasn't armed, without any documentation that that was the case, fine, but don't expect me to take his word for it. Now we know, we wouldn't have if we hadn't of taken him out.”

“There is no question that Saddam had WMD, this is correct. We all know he used them on the Iranians in the 80's. This does not justify war though. There is no evidence that he had weapons since the first gulf war. The war has yet to be justified and we're spending billions to make Iraq increasingly worse. It would be nice if the situation were getting better over there, but the skies continue to darken and the death tolls continue to mount.
last edited: 1/25/05 6:21:07 PM”

“Btw - the illegality argument is absolutely ridiculous, Saddam had been in violation of the peace treaty ending the first war for years. Every instance of anti-aircraft fire that came at our planes patrolling the no-fly zone was grounds for war. Every time Saddam told weapons inspectors where they could or could not go or kicked them out of the country was grounds for war. We were very patient with him for a very long time.”

“"It would be nice if the situation was getting better over there, but the skies continue to darken and the death tolls continue to mount."

EarthNsky
6:11:32 PM
1/25/05

Nice evening news view of the situation. I have two friends and one family member, who have been on the ground there that would completely disagree with your assessment of the situation.”

“
this picture was taken back when Iraq had WMD”

“Different times different situation, doesn't at all change the circumstances of today.

At least Chirac's glad no one got a pic of him sucking saddam's cock.
last edited: 1/25/05 6:21:12 PM”

“Does Russia still have missiles pointed at us?


Damn, Bison. You OK?
last edited: 1/25/05 6:24:18 PM”

“If Bush would have asked a few years ago if Americans wanted a social security benefit cut - which this is - Americans would have said, "No way."

So, instead, they reduced the taxes to create a crisis that results in the benefit cut that the Republicans wanted all along anyway.

No tax cut = No social security crisis

Once social security is eviscerated, then there will be another tax cut. Then, another benefit cut.

Pretty soon no one will be able to afford to retire, go to college or start a small business.”

“the difference is that Saddam had WMD and was using them and we supported him.”

“Bison, do you forget that he was our ally when he gassed the Iranians? If it was OK then, what changed?
Oh yeah, Kuwait. And we didn't finish the job then because there was no organization to take control after we removed him. What changed?
Links to terrorist? 911 commission said no.
So, just how was he a danger to me and my family?”

“As long as there are National Parks and National Forests. If those go, then I'm really pissed!”

“Bison, are you on call this weekend? I'm itching to go hiking and was thinking about SNP”

“No links to terrorists? I would read the 9/11 commissions report again if I were you. This ridiculous idea is the lie most often foisted upon people by the anti-war crowd. I have posted the sections on Saddam's ties to terrorists numerous times before, so you can go ahead and read the report yourself this time. The commission was very clear that Saddam had no ties to the specific 9/11 attack, that does not mean that he had no ties at all to Al Qaeda, an assertion that the commission presents evidence of but does not come to a conclusion about. And there is no question that Saddam was funneling money to Islamic Jihad and Hammas for the families of suicide bombers, including those who killed Americans at the University in Tel Aviv.

No ties to terrorism, absolutely laughable.”

“ENS - not on call, might go snowboarding though. Have to see how the weather's going to be, I'll know more on Thursday. Hey, maybe you should try snowboarding this weekend, expensive, but fun...
last edited: 1/25/05 6:34:55 PM”

“cool. I'm thinking about a couple of things. Maybe a dayhike in SNP or overnighter on the AT somewhere close to home or Sunfish Pond Area in the Delaware River Water Gap NRA (NJ side).

here is the SNP area 10day forecast
Tonight
Jan 25 Partly Cloudy
N/A/25° 20%

Wed
Jan 26 Mostly Cloudy
45°/15° 20%
45 °F

Thu
Jan 27 Sunny
27°/5° 0%
27 °F

Fri
Jan 28 Sunny
30°/12° 20%
30 °F

Sat
Jan 29 Partly Cloudy
32°/25° 20%
32 °F

Sun
Jan 30 Cloudy
42°/32° 20%
42 °F

Mon
Jan 31 Few Showers
48°/36° 30%
48 °F

could warm up. It would be neat to see sNP with some snow. Hopefully there'll be some left this weekend if that's where I go.
last edited: 1/25/05 6:38:40 PM”

“Why are we arguing about this anymore?

Who gives a rat's ass whether Saddam had weapons of mass destruction? Who cares?

The reality is that Iraq is VERY important now.

It is so important that I wonder why Bush is even trying to talk about social security and tax reform. Those are nice ideas, but now is not the time for them.

Right now, Bush should direct all of his attention and all of the country's resources on making this Iraq mess work.

Giving anything less than maximum attention to the troops right now is weakness.

In fact, I'm beginning to wonder if Bush really does support the troops.

And I'm really scared that Bush is going to turn tail and pull the troops out before we get all the terrorists.”

“Looks like this weekend is gonna be perfect for snowboarding, so that's what I'll probably do on Saturday, haven't gone much this winter because it's been so damn warm. Maybe a dayhike on Sunday?”

“yeah, a dayhike Sunday would be great. Howbout something high up, so the chance of having snow will be higher. I'll move this over to the SNP thread.
last edited: 1/25/05 6:45:08 PM”

“"-- Section 212(a)(3)(B) of the INA defines "terrorist activity" to mean: "any activity which is unlawful under the laws of the place where it is committed (or which, if committed in the United States, would be unlawful under the laws of the United States or any State) and which involves any of the following:"

http://israel.usembassy.gov/publish/press/2004/october/102001.html

Which side is the terrorist side?

"Washington, D.C., 21 August 2002 - State Department documents released yesterday on Argentina's dirty war (1976-83) show that the Argentine military believed it had U.S. approval for its all-out assault on the left in the name of fighting terrorism. The U.S. Embassy in Buenos Aires complained to Washington that the Argentine officers were "euphoric" over signals from high-ranking U.S. officials including then-Secretary of State Henry Kissinger"

http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB73/index3.htm

More than 8,000 Nepalese have died since a civil war broke out in 1996, and the death rate has sharply increased with the arrival of almost 8,400 US M-16 submachine-guns, accompanied by United States advisers, high-tech night-fighting equipment and British helicopters


The central protagonists in the current war are King Gyanendra, who abolished an elected parliament last year, the Communist Party of Nepal (Maoist) (CPNM), which is leading a rural insurrection or "people's war", and a group of five political parties that found themselves out in the cold when the monarchy took over.

The administration of US President George W Bush has concluded that the civil war threatens to make Nepal a "failed state" and a haven for international terrorists, leading it to place the CPNM on the State Department's "Watch List", along with such organizations as al-Qaeda, Abu Sayyaf and Lebanon's Hezbollah

The central protagonists in the current war are King Gyanendra, who abolished an elected parliament last year, the Communist Party of Nepal (Maoist) (CPNM), which is leading a rural insurrection or "people's war", and a group of five political parties that found themselves out in the cold when the monarchy took over.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/FB05Df01.html

How many others are out there? Is not Fidel The legitimate ruler of Cuba?”

“BM report to the Shenandoah thread”

“For this weekend? I already had to not sign up for the Tree Bday celebration this weekend due to work.”

“The commission was very clear that Saddam had no ties to the specific 9/11 attack, that does not mean that he had no ties at all to Al Qaeda, an assertion that the commission presents evidence of but does not come to a conclusion about. And there is no question that Saddam was funneling money to Islamic Jihad and Hammas for the families of suicide bombers, including those who killed Americans at the University in Tel Aviv.

No ties to terrorism, absolutely laughable.”
Bison

And this was a danger to me and my family how?
What is laughable is the blind faith people put in this administration.”

“Didn't Earth-Ski post this weekend that he was not posting on political threads?

Did I imagine that.”

“So, the 9/11 commission states that there was no tie to Iraq. We used the link to Iraq as an underlying excuse to invade. How are we still right again? Also, how do you get intel stating there are WMD's when there are not? Oh yes, I remember, one satellite photo was actually taken in Baghdad the day they were trying to build the worlds largest hot dog.”

“Let me rebut Bison's two main posts as they are illustrative of the position of the Bush apologists:

1) the-naviguesser Yes, exactly where are they? are you one of these numbskulls who can say that we knew absolutely that the WMD wasn't there before we went in?

First we should be able to talk about this without hurling insults. Secondly, no one knew absolutely what the truth was - thats why we had inspections. Thirdly, it was obvious that the WMD case was way over-exaggerated by the Bush gang and they were busy trouncing on credible people who contradicted them.


There is absolutely no question that in the past there was WMD, and Saddam refused to document what happened to it. Exactly why inspections were needed. Funny how Bush was so quick to say that Saddam was gaming the inspectors when the inspectors didn't think so.

If you base the safety of your family and friends on Saddam's assurance that he wasn't armed, without any documentation that that was the case, fine, but don't expect me to take his word for it.

Again, inspections>

Now we know, we wouldn't have if we hadn't of taken him out. I believed then, and still believe - that the reason the Bush team was so quick to declare the inspections a failure and go to war - even while the inspectors said Saddam was cooperating - is that they were afraid the isnpectors were going to announce that the WMD were gone.

The Bush team want everyone to focus on taking Saddams word for WMD, and the congressional authorization - and forget two key facts:

1) There were inspections.
2) Before Bush went to war under the authorization, he had to take one further step: to determine that Saddam was thwarting inspections. Saddam wasn't, because he knew the threat of war was real.”

“Stay focused on the negative. It worked the last time.

Someone said that the Republicans are the party of bad ideas and the Democrats are the party of no ideas.”

“Second post - Bison cites the 9/11 comission report on ties to terrorism.

Basically it describes some overtures from Al-Qeda - no joint projects with any terrorist group. One pivotal, so-called piece of evidence is the report that someone in the Iraqi government visited Bin-Laden in Sudan. Well, crap, that was many years ago, and if you hadn't noticed - it was in Sudan - where Bin-Lden was an welcomed guest who hung out with the leaders of the country. If sending someone to visit the guy justifies an invasion - why haven't we done anything to Sudan?

We have agents who talk to everyone, we have back channels with the whole Axis of evil - the fact that mid or people talked once every couple of years does not make an alliance.

As for the donations to families of suicide bombers in Israel - yes that's reprehensible, but money is also flowing from every othe Moslem country. It also does not constitute ny threat to America, or any involvement in planning or carrying out terrorist attacks.

If these are the thickest straws Bush apologists can find to cling to in support of the link between Iraq and 9/11, the case is the case is thin indeed.”

“Ped I'm afraid I find your argument to be absurd, 11 years of inspections my friend, 11 years, the inspectors felt that Saddam was cooperating, to a certain extent at that particular time. There is no question about his record of generally working to thwart the inspectors throughout the course of the inspection regime. A couple of months of cooperation, and limited cooperation at that does not make up for all the time Saddam spent making sure the inspectors couldn't go where they wanted to. There's absolutely no reason to believe that he would have continued to allow the inspectors all the access they requested until their job was done. I think a much stronger argument can be made that he would have started interferring again as soon as the situation calmed down if we had not acted.”

“Besides ending slavery, communism, facsism, and genocide war never solved a thing.”

“Yeah that damned civil war, must stick in the craw of the liberals. I know Trailturtle probably was lusting for the days of slavery.”

“"And there is no question that Saddam was funneling money to Islamic Jihad and Hammas for the families of suicide bombers, including those who killed Americans at the University in Tel Aviv."

Talk about ridiculous.

The Palestinian terrorists don't do what they do for Saddam Hussein.

He sent them money to poke Israel and the U.S. in the eye.

They would have done it anyway.

Since Hussein has been in the slammer Palestinian terrorists are still at it.

They would do it with or without him.

Where is the war money going?
It is going somewhere...
Contraitors, er, uh contractors are making tons of money out of our pockets and thousands of our kids are becoming casualties.

It is a gravy train, a racket.

This was the case 35-40 years ago and we let it happen again.

These clowns in the Pentagon and the war industries are not protecting us.

They are raking in lots of money.

In the end it is for commercial interests, just like Vietnam.”

“"First we should be able to talk about this without hurling insults."

pexing

Bison, take heed!”

“I see Oliver Stone is still whispering sweet nothings in your ear at night MarkO.”

“"There's absolutely no reason to believe that he would have continued to allow the inspectors all the access they requested until their job was done. I think a much stronger argument can be made that he would have started interferring again as soon as the situation calmed down if we had not acted."

Access to WHAT???

There were NO WEAPONS to deny access too.”

“I know, it's hard to stay away from insults when confronted by the absolute absurdity bandied about by the left.”

“Really MarkO, He was denying access to sites that the inspectors wanted to check out, Now why would he do that in violation of his obligations under the peace treaty, if he had nothing to hide?”

“Again with the insults, young man!

Oliver Stone??

Turn off AM radio.

You have nothing else to say so you recite what the right-wing attack media is blabbering about.

Various southeast Asian countries were then, and may still be, producers of rubber and other plantation industry products.

Those were the commercial interests.

I'm trying to say this without resorting to insult, can you?

The U.S. and other nations paid for the abuses of colonialism with the lives of their young men and huge sums of money.

Come on, calling me "the left" is all you've got.
It's just another way of calling me a dirty rotten traitor.....scare talk.
We're supposed to "know" that "the left" is evil.
last edited: 1/25/05 8:18:05 PM”

““Really MarkO, He was denying access to sites that the inspectors wanted to check out, Now why would he do that in violation of his obligations under the peace treaty, if he had nothing to hide?”

It turns out there was nothing to hide.

I know, you don't want to believe that you've been lied to and will spit venom to defend your beliefs.
last edited: 1/25/05 8:20:42 PM”

“Bison: Inspections were working well at the time Bush went to war. By your argument, the inspections Bush asked for were an absolute farce because the way Saddam had gamed inspectors before already made war necessary.”

“There's a new Falafel place in Adams Morgan on 18th st. It Rocks!”

“No MarkO, I'm upset because those on the left are continually lying about this war. And people around here continue to regurgitate these lies.”

“At the trim Amsterdam Falafel, the Middle Eastern snack of mashed chickpeas, shaped into balls and fried to a neat crunch, gets slipped into warm pita pockets and dressed up with a choice of nearly 20 toppings. Picture shredded beets, turmeric-tinged cabbage, green herb sauce and eggplant puree -- everything arranged in a colorful salad bar and yours for the garnishing. That said, the fluffy-centered fritters are scrumptious on their own, liberally seasoned with garlic, cumin, parsley and coriander. A sandwich made with three of them costs $3.75; one with five goes for $5.25. As friendly as the guys behind the counter are the hours of operation: This Adams Morgan newcomer is open daily for lunch and dinner, and until 4 a.m. on Friday and Saturday nights.
[url]
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?node=entertainment/profile&id=1107930&typeId=2&type=restaurants[/url]

And they serve twice cooked Dutch-style fries”

“getting back on track. This from the David Duke Conservatives favorite news network FOX

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,145335,00.html

This Year's Deficit to Hit Record $427 Billion
Tuesday, January 25, 2005


WASHINGTON — The White House will project that this year's federal deficit will hit $427 billion, a senior administration official said Tuesday, a record partly driven by wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The official, among three who briefed reporters on condition of anonymity, said the estimate was a conservative one that assumed some higher spending than other analysts use. Last February, the White House projected that the 2004 shortfall would hit $521 billion, only to see it come in at $412 billion.

The official said the figure represented progress because it would be smaller than last year's record $412 billion shortfall when compared to the size of the growing U.S. economy. That ratio is a key measure of the deficit's potency.

"Our projections will show we remain on track to cut the deficit in half by 2009," one of President Bush's budget goals, the official told reporters.

Even so, the number was among a blizzard of figures released Tuesday that illustrated how federal deficits remain a problem that Bush and Congress must reckon with.

The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office said that thanks to tax cuts and hurricane aid passed since its last calculations in September, the 10-year deficit had worsened since then by $503 billion, not counting war expenditures.


The congressional analysts projected that this year's deficit would hit $368 billion — which would be the third highest ever — excluding war costs. Adding expenditures for Iraq and Afghanistan operations would push this year's red ink to about $400 billion, said Congress' nonpartisan budget analyst.

Underscoring budget pressures hounding lawmakers, senior administration officials invited reporters to the White House to outline their upcoming request for an additional $80 billion, or slightly more, to help pay this year's costs of wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

"I am grateful that Congress in a strong bipartisan fashion has consistently voted to support our troops, and I urge it to do so again," Bush said in a written statement.

There is little doubt lawmakers will follow Bush's lead, as they have repeatedly since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. The latest proposal would bring war spending so far to about $308 billion, including $25 billion to rebuild Iraq and Afghanistan, according to the Congressional Research Service, which provides reports to lawmakers.

Bush plans to send his 2006 budget to Congress on Feb. 7. It will not include a request for more war funds for that year, the officials said, saving that request for later.

Tuesday's forecast by the Congressional Budget Office was widely awaited at the start of a year when Bush and Republicans are likely to propose tight spending restraints — and battle Democrats and some GOP lawmakers over those plans.

The budget office projected $855 billion in shortfalls for the decade ending in 2015. The office estimated that deficits would gradually fade into slight surpluses by 2012 — but not many were taking that forecast at face value.

In making those estimates, the budget office assumed that current tax and spending laws would be unchanged, as it is required to do by law. The practice is designed to give lawmakers a neutral starting point to work from when crafting legislation.

As a result, the budget office projections omitted war costs and some of Bush's top legislative priorities.

The budget office said assuming U.S. troop strength in Iraq and Afghanistan stays steady through next year and then declines gradually, those wars would add $590 billion to the decade's deficits.

Bush's proposal to prevent his tax cuts from expiring — and easing the impact of the alternative minimum tax on middle-income Americans, a move both parties favor — could add red ink exceeding $2.3 trillion, the budget office said.

The budget office did not say how much Bush's plans to revamp Social Security would cost, but it has been estimated at $1 trillion to $2 trillion.

On the other hand, the budget office assumed most domestic programs would grow at the same rate as inflation. Keeping such spending at about the same level as this year for the entire decade — which Bush may come close to proposing — could reduce deficits by $1.3 trillion over the period, the budget office said.

Republicans used the deficit figures to argue that budget savings must be found this year, including from popular benefit programs.

"If we do nothing, our kids and grandkids will be overwhelmed by the costs of our inaction," said Senate Budget Committee Chairman Judd Gregg, R-N.H.

Democrats blamed Bush and the GOP for the daunting piles of red ink.

"Republicans control the House, the Senate and the White House, but they can't control the budget and they can't escape responsibility for its dismal condition," said Rep. John Spratt of South Carolina, top Democrat on the House Budget Committee.

The administration officials provided little new detail about their war package.

They said of the $80 billion, about $75 billion would be for the Defense Department, with most of it for the Army. They said such spending would include personnel costs, the start of an effort to add at least 17 combat brigades to the Army and replacing worn out equipment.

The rest of the money would largely be for aid the State Department would give to U.S. allies and for other expenses. Included would be money to help new Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas, to build an embassy in Baghdad and to aid victims of fighting in Sudan's Darfur province.

They did not state whether the request would include aid for Indian Ocean countries staggered by the tsunami. But one said the United States was spending $5 million daily there, and the administration would seek a "significant request, very generous assistance."

The United States has already committed $350 million to tsunami recovery efforts”

“David Duke conservatives? Abraham Lincoln was a Republican. So is Condi Rice.”