State of the Union

“pitts - To clarify - I'm sure your mother contributes greatly to society in some way, I'm only responding to the information you presented. No offense intended.
last edited: 2/01/06 12:58:39 PM”

“CBS did a flash poll after the speech. The result was 77% in support of the President's policies.

You could tell that CBS did not expect the results. Bob Shaefer tried to explain away the positive support, by discrediting his own polling sample. What idiots.”

“After the President said he wanted to to end the partisan politics. The Democrats stood up and cheered at his comment that social security reform was defeated.

The Democratic leaders have no idea how bad they make themselves look.”

“It's hard to believe that these people are partly responsible for our lives. They seem so childish, the way the react to what the president says.”

“Let's all pay the same amount, say $10,000.00
each. That would be fair. I'll do it like the gov. does it --send them my IOU today.”

“The Democratic leaders have no idea how bad they make themselves look.”
bacpac
1:05:25 PM

Doesn't make any difference when you have the control of most of the major media spin.

Thank God for Fox News and the new media.”

“thats ok

she works at walmart so you decide if that's a good contribution or not

(chuckle)
last edited: 2/01/06 4:14:04 PM”

“Stove, I agree. I'm a Bill Reilly fan. I don't always watch the show since I'm not into politics, but it's always very interesting and eye opening to hear two opposing points of view and watch him stop the other person from trying to "spin" him which is a nice word for lying and/or giving him bullcr@ap.

I must admit, Bill sometimes is off a little, but he's right on for the most part.”

“Stove, I agree. I'm a Bill Reilly fan. I don't always watch the show since I'm not into politics, but it's always very interesting and eye opening to hear two opposing points of view and watch him stop the other person from trying to "spin" him which is a nice word for lying and/or giving him bullcr@ap.

I must admit, Bill sometimes is off a little, but he's right on for the most part.”
lipstick hiker
4:15:31 PM
2/01/06

This explains alot.”

“I still don't see where the 5% figure comes from. The money has to come from somewhere. This is about revenue after all.

Currently the income tax rate is on a progressive scale between 10-35%. I'll do some math here.

My mom probably pays 15%. I pay, well... a LOT more.

A flat tax rate of 5% would be a tax cut for everyone including my mom and I so the US government would be taking in less money.

A flat tax rate of 15% would be a tax break for me and nothing for my mom so the US government would be taking in less money.

A flat tax rate of 20% would be a tax break for me and a 5% increase for my mother. I would be taking money from my mother (who is rather poor) and putting it in my pocket. I don't know for sure but I am betting the US government would be taking in less money unless there are a lot of poor people out there whose taxes we plan to raise with this flat tax.

This strikes me as not just unfair but evil now that I look at the numbers.”

“Buddha,

I think this is what everyone has to realize about both parties, that they are not always right. If a person doesn't realize that, they are following a person or persons blindly without using any thought process of their own.”

“A flat tax rate of 5% would be a tax cut for everyone including my mom and I so the US government would be taking in less money.

Bingo.


This strikes me as not just unfair but evil now that I look at the numbers.

So you categorize "taking from the government" the same as "taking from your mom"? You think that's evil? Pitts, you can't be serious.”

“Someone has to fund the tax cut, sarge. You are correct in that my mom wouldn't be funding it. It would take the income of a several poor people to make up for the tax cut I would get. So yes, that is evil.”

“pitts - You're cracking me up here.

Your mom and X # of other people will be paying their share.

It's only more money than they have been paying because they were not paying their "fair" share previously.

They are not paying for your reduction in taxes. They are paying for their use of government services, just like everyone else.”

“Buddha,

I think this is what everyone has to realize about both parties, that they are not always right. If a person doesn't realize that, they are following a person or persons blindly without using any thought process of their own.”
lipstick hiker
4:33:11 PM
2/01/06

Differences between you and I.

1. I know I'm not always right. That is impossible. But I admit when I'm wrong, people of your ilk don't.

2. You stated that you watch, and think O'Reilly is right the vast majority of the time, yet make a statement about blindly following a person or person's staements? Have you ever researched his statements from an objective POV? Anybody with a brain that watches O'Reilly, or Hannity, or listen to Rush, knows that they are entertainers, who don't speak the truth, they push opinion, yet people like you eat it up.

3. My harsH critique of your comments is not neccisarily a personal attack on you, but an attack on the lack of reasoning among many of the people in our country, because they act, and respond to important issues JUST LIKE YOU DO. Please take this harshness as a wake-up call to investigate the issues on your own, without the help of "fair and balanced" (laughable) people like Bill O'Rielly.”

“lumberzac - The medium number doesn't help at all when determining how much the government would take in.”

Please explain.”

“(spelling mistake)

You gave median numbers, but what is needed are the average per person.”

“WARNING: This will open a PDF file from the CBO.

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/70xx/doc7000/12-29-FedTaxRates.pdf

Oh yeah, you need the spreadsheet that goes with it. WARNING: This opens up an Excel spreadsheet.

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/70xx/doc7000/Spreadsheets.xls

It has been giving me a headache for the last hour or so.
last edited: 2/01/06 9:51:53 PM”

“1. I know I'm not always right. That is impossible. But I admit when I'm wrong, people of your ilk don't.

2. You stated that you watch, and think O'Reilly is right the vast majority of the time, yet make a statement about blindly following a person or person's staements? Have you ever researched his statements from an objective POV? Anybody with a brain that watches O'Reilly, or Hannity, or listen to Rush, knows that they are entertainers, who don't speak the truth, they push opinion, yet people like you eat it up.

3. My harsH critique of your comments is not neccisarily a personal attack on you, but an attack on the lack of reasoning among many of the people in our country, because they act, and respond to important issues JUST LIKE YOU DO. Please take this harshness as a wake-up call to investigate the issues on your own, without the help of "fair and balanced" (laughable) people like Bill O'Rielly.”
Buddha Bear
9:02:34 PM
2/01/06



BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is the single most hilareous thing I've ever read here! What's even better is the fact that you can say that with a straight face!

Tell us, O Great One, about YOUR independent and objective research of statements made by Rush, Hannity, O'Reilly, or lipstick hiker that didn't involve one of the outlets that YOU blindly follow like CNN, MSNBC, ViOliN, or someone else of "your ilk" like the news organization that rigged the GMC truck gas tanks to blow up for a news story.

And please provide some examples of Rush, Hannity, and O'Reilly falsehoods. This should be good.”

“Buddha Bear loves beating up women.
What an asshat!”

“"WASHINGTON - One day after President Bush vowed to reduce America's dependence on Middle East oil by cutting imports from there 75 percent by 2025, his energy secretary and national economic adviser said Wednesday that the president didn't mean it literally."

Rest of story”

“that's funny.”

“He says what he means and means what he says.

*snicker*”

“when moses wrote genesis, "he didnt mean it literally"”

“STOT: We must also change how we power our automobiles. We will increase our research in better batteries for hybrid and electric cars, and in pollution-free cars that run on hydrogen. We'll also fund additional research in cutting-edge methods of producing ethanol, not just from corn, but from wood chips and stalks, or switch grass. Our goal is to make this new kind of ethanol practical and competitive within six years. (Applause.)

Breakthroughs on this and other new technologies will help us reach another great goal: to replace more than 75 percent of our oil imports from the Middle East by 2025. (Applause.) By applying the talent and technology of America, this country can dramatically improve our environment, move beyond a petroleum-based economy, and make our dependence on Middle Eastern oil a thing of the past. (Applause.)

__________________________________

energy secretary: What the president meant, they said in a conference call with reporters, was that alternative fuels could displace an amount of oil imports equivalent to most of what America is expected to import from the Middle East in 2025.

But America still would import oil from the Middle East, because that's where the greatest oil supplies are.”

“On the subject of the median & average incomes for the US: in a very large dataset with a small amount of outliers on either end, the median and average will be fairly close. Not exact, but close.

Different subject: Interesting article online about how Bush has been saying the exact same thing every year since 2002:

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/01/31/sotu-deja-vu/

2002: "This Congress must act to encourage conservation, promote technology, build infrastructure, and it must act to increase energy production at home so America is less dependent on foreign oil."

2003: "Our third goal is to promote energy independence for our country, while dramatically improving the environment. … [We should be] much less dependent on foreign sources of energy."

2004: "I urge you to pass legislation to modernize our electricity system, promote conservation, and make America less dependent on foreign sources of energy."

2005: "I urge Congress to pass legislation that makes America more secure and less dependent on foreign energy."

2006: "America is addicted to oil, which is often imported from unstable parts of the world. The best way to break this addiction is through technology."

Meanwhile, our dependence on foreign oil has increased from 58 percent in 2000 to 66 percent today.”

““So the burden of paying a flat tax is the same for someone making $20K/year as it is for someone making $200K/year?"

Percentage wise. Someone like Bill Gates would still pay more money but the same percentage.

For me, the problem with a flat tax is that the percentage would have a much more drastic effect on livability for the lowest incomes than it does on their wealthier breatheren. Once past a certain income - one that probably isn't too high - that argument becomes moot, and a flat tax seems wholly appropriate. But I think to be fair, some adjustment should be made at the lowest income levels.”

“"But I think to be fair, some adjustment should be made at the lowest income levels.”

I agree. I htink a national sales tax would be even better.”

“So how do you make an adjustment for the poor with a national sales tax?

Show your "poor card" for 5% off of the tax rate?”

“Simple. Rich people spend more. Poorer people do not spend as much and therefore pay less taxes.”

“But then the basic necessities of life now cost more thereby impacting the reach of a smaller paycheck.

Are we talking about not taxing basic necessities or are we talking about a tax that is levied every time money changes hands?”

“Every time you buy something. The apparent loss would be made up by the fact that we would have no money due to no FICA. When people have more money they spend more money.”

“Forget a national sales tax. The 16th Amendment reads:

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration. ...

In order for a national sales tax to be created the 16th amendment would first have to be tossed out. Good luck getting that any time soon. Then a new Amendment would have to be made authorizing a national sales tax. Even more fun.

I think the flat tax is an equally bad idea but at lest it's plausible in that the 16 Amendment doesn't have to be pitched out.

So at least I see some sort of change in income tax as being far more likely to be implemented than a radical change like an income tax.

I also think some of the national sales tax ideas I have read are just freaky, especially the monthly “rebates” that would have to be issued to low income people as rebates on taxes paid for food and other essentials. That just seems like a huge avenue for fraud and abuse.”

“Sarge is dead.(Applause.)”

“What the heck was that all about wanderer?

Never mind - you did trick me though with the "wandererer" thing. Good job Rush Limbaugh's Crack.

I think you're Crash Bang btw RLC. Just a hunch considering your similar interests in particular ideas about me.

Later troll. *ignore*
last edited: 2/02/06 6:46:41 PM”

“nevermind
last edited: 2/02/06 6:47:32 PM”

“Personally, I have a hunch RLC is the old Tarp Rat, but that's just me, and I am by no means a "Troll" expert. He!!, I'm still trying to figure out why someone would WANT to post something & not have it known who they were? I just don't get the whole "troll" mentality thing.... seems really childish, immature & in most cases, pitiful. Those people really need some psychological help, IMHO - I'm concerned they're the next "postal worker" group.”

“crash doesn't use capital letters”

“LOL! i mean lol.”

“Good point pitts. Usually a troll uses less-correct grammar to appear naive and vulnerable, not the other way around. Not that I'm an expert or anything.”

“thanks lz. i have to select "fuego" to find some of these.

why-o-why is "atonement" a fuego thread????

;(

my right contact is killing me.”

“just in case any fools were wondering”

“that's no fun cb. you should've just let them wonder.”

“let them eat cake”

“buddha,

I'm not pretending to know everything, especially about politics. I'll even go one step further to say Bill O'Reilly says some things for "entertainment" purposes. It's what gets ratings, controversy, but I still believe he is on target much of the time with what the real truth is. He seems to be able to take on opponents and leave them speechless to where they cannot defend the lies they are trying to perpertrate on him and the general public.”

“But then the basic necessities of life now cost more thereby impacting the reach of a smaller paycheck.

Are we talking about not taxing basic necessities or are we talking about a tax that is levied every time money changes hands?”
humanpackmule
9:40:08 AM
2/02/06

I remember when basic necessities did not include a cell phone, VCR, automobile, cable, fast food, whiskey and cigarettes.”

“"I remember when basic necessities did not include...cable..."

Tell me about it. I used to do door-to-door collections for Comcast. People would literally give me the majority of their latest welfare check just so I would turn the cable back on. One townhouse I went to, there was raw sewage dumping into a bucket. You'd think she would want that money to fix the sewer pipe. Nope, she wanted her cable back on, NOW.”

“The comparison between our 'poor' and the poor of the rest of the world is very stark. Our poorest people still have a higher standard of living than some 80% of the world.

It would be interesting to see what the percentage of welfare recipients have cable.”

“The national sales tax proposals I have read involve exempting some level of income and certain "necessity of life" items (food, etc) from Federal tax. This leads to the need to issue _monthly_ rebate checks to people, tax rebates basically, based on income level... a tax rebate based on an allowance for what you are _expected_ to spend on these items (not on what you actually spent). For low-income families I have seen estimates of this monthly "tax rebate" check at $400-$500/month.

I think that is a horrible idea.

I also don’t see it as a way to address issues people have with the progressive tax. If you start to give special treatment to people of different incomes than you basically have a progressive tax all over again. Also, with all the rebate checks that have to get administered (fraud management, income level verification, etc) you still have a very, very complex system to implement and support. Implementation is key since the infrastructure for such a national tax doesn’t exist.

Also, I would never support a national sales tax unless the 16th amendment was repealed. The government has enough taxing power as it is without adding to it with a national sales tax. Since I don’t think the Federal Government could create a national sales tax without a constitutional amendment, the 16th amendment (which permits Federal taxation of income) would have to be pitched and a new amendment (one that permits Federal taxation of sales of goods and services) would have to be passed.

Yeah, right… as if that will happen in my lifetime. Revision of the existing income tax is the only practical option in my opinion. You may argue flat of progressive tax, etc, but I don’t see a VAT or national sales tax as being something with enough support to ever be put into practical application.
last edited: 2/03/06 8:18:32 AM”