State of the Union

“...Or was that Iraqi woman next to Laura Bush a dead ringer for Monica Lewinski?”

“Good little address.”

“According the the Democrats Social Security is snug as a bug in a rug. Nothing to worry about here folks, move along...”

“The Democratic response looks like Mr. Rodgers and the wicked witch of the West.

Fluff and fear mongering.”

“Yeah, over exaggerating about the issues with Social Security isn't fear mongering.”

“The social security problems were one of the focal points of the Democratic campaign in 2004.

Flip/Flop.”

“The Democratic strategy of opposing anything the President proposes will be the nail in their political coffin. As time moves on the President's policies have been proven successful time and time again.

The Democrat's over exaggerating the hazards of the President's policy are fear mongering.”

“Uh, I clipped this from John Kerry's website:

Social Security Faces Challenges - But They Are Manageable.

Huh. That sounds like the same thing everybody's preaching now. Social Security can be fixed and the impending doom, according to his web site is 40 years away! Plenty of time to work up a plan to save the system. Nothings changed except maybe some peoples memory of the election.”

“Everyone who is honest about this knows that Social Security in the year 2015 or 2020 won't work.
Source: Kerry/Weld debate, SouthCoastToday.com Jun 4, 1996

I guess we can't expect Democrats to be students of history if they can't remember what they said themselves.
last edited: 2/02/05 10:45:41 PM”

“President Clinton: “Now Is The Time To Strengthen Social Security For The Future. … We Can And Must Accomplish This Critical Goal For The American People.” (The White House, “Presidential Statement On Social Security,” Press Release, 4/23/99)”

“One thing the demoncats can't answer is, "Why not now? And if not now, when?". The simplest answer is, "Because Bush is in office. And when a demoncat is in office.". Then again the way the DNC is so out of touch with America it may be 2040 before they get back in the White House.

What a bunch of hypocrits.”

“Top Ten Surprises In George W. Bush's State Of The Union Address

10. Instead of "Hail To The Chief," marine band played 50 Cent's "In Da Club"

9. Began with wacky comedy skit about Hillary Clinton fainting then yelled, "Live from New York it's Saturday night"

8. For first 5 minutes, President wandered aimlessly looking for his shadow.

7. Didn't bother to take off his iPod.

6. His curious decision to wear t-shirt: "The more I learn about women, the more I love my truck"

5. President paused frequently to sip from Big Gulp.

4. His nunchucks wizardry.

3. His tearful plea to Brad and Jennifer to work things out.

2. The guy wouldn't shut up about "Meet The #&%!$ers"

1. When he accidentally "outed" Rumsfeld.”

“Only One Side Told in Bush Soc. Sec. Pitch

Wed Feb 2,11:28 PM ET Politics - AP


By CALVIN WOODWARD, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - The devil was in the missing details Wednesday night when President Bush showcased his Social Security plan and claimed advances on jobs and against terrorism that don't tell the full story.

Bush explained in detail how, under his proposal, younger workers would be able to divert some of their Social Security payroll taxes into private accounts "so you can build a nest egg for your own future."


Nowhere in his State of the Union speech did he give the other side of the equation — that Social Security benefits for those workers would be reduced as a result. He stated "your account will provide money for retirement over and above the check you will receive from Social Security," without explaining that check would be smaller.

Moreover, he seemed to issue a guaranteed return on investment for people putting some of their retirement money in the market, saying: "Your money will grow, over time, at a greater rate than anything the current system can deliver."

Although his plan promises checks and balances to ensure such money isn't frittered away on risky investments, it does not come with a guarantee of performance exceeding benefits of the current system.

Declaring Social Security will go broke if nothing is done, Bush said that by 2042, "the entire system would be exhausted and bankrupt."

In fact, the
nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office
forecasts Social Security as it is would be able to pay 73 percent of benefits in 2042 and stay solvent for 10 years beyond that.


In a portion of his speech dealing with economic progress in the last four years, Bush trumpeted the addition of 2.3 million jobs "in the last year alone," as if he's delivered a succession of job gains.


His number was correct for the year in question, but he left out that there was an overall job loss in those four years. He remains about 300,000 jobs short of closing that jobs deficit.


Even in a policy-packed address like a State of the Union, nuances are lost and Wednesday's speech was no exception.


Bush called Iraq "free and sovereign," an arguably premature definition in light of the relentless violence from insurgents and the overwhelming presence of U.S. troops.


He also said Iraq was "a vital front on the war on terror" and Americans "are fighting terrorists in Iraq so we do not have to face them here at home."

The terrorist link that the United States most worried about when it invaded Iraq — an alleged relationship with the al-Qaida network behind the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks — came to little.

Close to home, Bush credited the No Child Left Behind law with improving school achievement and test scores, but many educators say they are struggling to meet the law's requirements because of a lack of money and because some requirements are inflexible.

The law demands yearly progress from all groups of students and penalizes many schools that fall short. Bush also talked about increasing Pell grants; the administration has not explained in detail how it will find the money to make that happen.”

“BBW, all you've quoted is that they think SS needs to be fixed. You've made a mistake in believing that their belief it is important to focus on fixing the system before it is too late is fear mongering. In the end the plan to keep SS has always stayed the same and their statements have only concurred with what has been issued by agency's such as the CBO or the SSA. As they predict SS to take us farther into the future they correct their statements to coincide. GW runs off what estimates again? That's right, his own. The man can't operate a calculator for crying out loud.”

“SilentJ, are you drunk? That post makes zero sense.”

“Basically the Dems have been quoting organizations like the SSA and CBO when they state numbers. Those numbers change every year. Obviously they use numbers that benefit their argument but they come from credible sources. On the other hand you have Bush who will take the figures that work to his advantage and then change them. SSA states we will have to start paying out the trust fund in 2019, Bush says 2017 even though that is an estimate from 2002. Wake up brother, it's 2005. The trustees state an infinite projection for a shortfall is $10.4 trillion. Bush, in some crazy act of rounding, says $11 trillion. rounding would say $10 trillion, or if you don't want to give up 4/10's I'd settle for $10.5 trillion. Of course, it's not really lying right? We all round up when we should go down. It's an easy mistake to make when we're talking in trillions.”

“The election destroyed the illusions of the loony-toon liberals on this site. The lunatic fringe which in the past had been so vocal has been silenced. Reality set in and they could not deal with the truth.

Silent J is all that is left.”

“The funny thing is that I'm not a Democrat.”

“So the difference is 2 years and .6 trillion bucks. I the terms we're talking here that is nearly dead on. But Bush is loony? Where were you all when Clinton was wanting to "fix it"?

Jeezus...”

“I'm sorry but .6 trillion is 600 billion. That's a big difference. No where near dead on. Also, if 2 years is not that big a deal then why change it? Apparently it's a big deal to Bush is that's what he is pushing.”

“I've got the social security fix:

Reduce the size of government. Spend less money.

Bush's plan does nothing to "fix" the system. It is a sexy little package to divert attention from the benefit reductions for young workers that go along with the private accounts.

I actually have nothing against the private accounts - as long as we pay the plan administrators nothing. But the only way to save social security is to spend less money.

Reduce the size of government. And to make things fair, they should reduce benefits for current retirees as well as future retirees.”

“So Bush's plan does not fix the system and the Democrats say there is nothing to fix.

Same song different verse. The party with no ideas is at least consistent.”

“Bbw,

There is a moderate long-term deficit. It is smaller than the long-term deficits for other government programs.

Here's a solution: Increase witholding by 1% and reduce benefits by a small amount. It would solve the problem. Or push back full retirement by about 6 months. Not too many people wait for full retirement age anyway.

BTW, Who gives a rat's ass where the solution comes from?

The real solution is to spend less money on other things.

The private accounts do nothing to fix the problem. Reductions in benefits will.

If Bush's plan "saves" the system, it is only in that it ultimately reduces future benefits for younger workers.

The private accounts are a little bone to throw out to the younger people so that it won't smell so bad to them.

Basically, young people are being asked a question: Would you rather bet on living a long time and having your social security last a long time? Or would you rather bet on dying young and passing on the "private account" to your heirs?”

“Just so you know, Bbw, you are off the party plank right now.

The Bush administration is now saying that their plan will not fix the problems with social security.

Here's a couple of paragraphs from the LA Times:

"In a significant shift in his rationale for the accounts, Bush dropped his claim that they would help solve Social Security's fiscal problems — a link he sometimes made during last year's presidential campaign. Instead, he said the individual accounts were desirable because they would be "a better deal," providing workers what he said would be a higher rate of return and "greater security in retirement."

A Bush aide, briefing reporters on the condition of anonymity, was more explicit, saying that the individual accounts would do nothing to solve the system's long-term financial problems."

So you can argue whether you'd like to have private accounts that can be inherited. I do like that idea. But you disagree with President Bush if you think that the plan "saves" social security.

It just changes it to something different that costs just as much.”

“Your suggestion to raise taxes and cut benefits seems oddly familiar.

Hmmmm..... Where have we seen that before?”

“Don't buy into the argument about the inheritability of private accounts rl. This is long, but offers more details than the President ever will: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A56848-2005Feb2.html

Basically, you'll be forced to buy an annuity at retirement that provides for poverty level wages. If you die the next day, the money goes to the issuer of the annuity (the federal government in this case). Benefits will be offset by what you earn in the "private" account. The amount that is "inheritable" is likely to amount to chump change, if anything - it all depends on what the market can do, less management fees.
last edited: 2/03/05 8:44:07 PM”

“The year 2042 that gets kicked around so much is actually the more conservative of the trustee’s forecasts. The most optimistic assumes greater growth in the economy. Under that scenario, the system is solvent into perpetuity.

Bush is talking about the future day when the system pays out more than it takes in in doomsday terms. Just what the hell are his last 4 budgets then?”

““So Bush's plan does not fix the system and the Democrats say there is nothing to fix.

Same song different verse. The party with no ideas is at least consistent.”

Yeah, I liked the way the democrats came out before the State of the Union speech and said that all 40 of them would vote against Bush’s proposals before they even knew what the plan was. Talk about your bi-partisanship. I do like this obstinate though. We saw what the “we’re doing the opposite of whatever Bush is doing” got them in the election.”

““I'm sorry but .6 trillion is 600 billion. That's a big difference. No where near dead on."

In terms of a national budget it's not that much and anyway, why not fix it BEFORE it gets to the $11 trillion? Better to be conservative in fixing it than letting it go down the tubes and then fix it.


"Also, if 2 years is not that big a deal then why change it? Apparently it's a big deal to Bush is that's what he is pushing.”

Bush's assesment is saying it will be in trouble two years before the democrats say it will. Again, why not make it secure NOW rather than later? Because it's Bush, that's why. Right? Right.

The democratic party is nothing more than the whinny middle child. "Marsha! Marsha! Marsha!"
last edited: 2/04/05 7:55:23 AM”

“I do so love the day after the state of the union speech. The wailing. The crying. The gnashing of teeth and shaking fists at the sky. Let the whinefest begin!”

“The Onion is strong!”

“Garlic is stronger!!!”

“"There is a difference between responsible criticism that aims for success and defeatism that refuses to acknowledge anything but failure. Hindsight alone is not wisdom and second-guessing is not a strategy" - George W. Bush”

“True, Mutt, true......”

“No doubt V is surfing the liberal pajama blogs for some good cut and paste quotes as we speak.”

“That was a clever piece of writing, Mutt......who ever wrote it.”

“He seems quite taken with the Daily KOS, Nigal.
He has used it as a source for his lies a few times.
LOL”

“Bush just regurgitated the same crap he's been saying for years. He has a way of saying a lot of words without saying anything. But then again he is a politician. At least he didn't come off so g/d arrogant this time.
The State of the Onion is nothing but a big charade anyway. I usually don't even watch, but hey it was on and you know how us Americans are intrigued by stupidity.”

“Oh I agree Indi. When he started in on the 911 thing and blah blah blah, I was like, “Move on George. That dog don’t hunt no more.”. And then he started talking about our strong economy and I think I puked in my mouth a little. But it does make for great canon fodder for this thread.”

“I wish just once the Chief Executive would not tell us WHAT GOVERNMENT CAN DO FOR US...but rather "How he plans to make us independent of government in the coming year."

FAIR TAX, Make April 15 just another day...”

“flat tax - 5% - no deductions - take right out of pay

only paperwork would be 1 slip of paper from the business with a 5% payment of all their payroll

done and done - next!”

“I caught some of the democrat’s response and was just so amazed at how far we have fallen. This guy was talking about how the government should serve it’s people and he launches into the same pet platforms like healthcare and welfare and on and on. Thomas Jefferson would start the revolution back up if he ever saw how much power we have given to our government and what a nation of victims we have become. [/rant]
last edited: 2/01/06 8:35:59 AM”

“The only intelligent thing Bush said was the talk about getting off the oil hampster wheel and investing in renewable energy (RE).

Unfortunately for him, actions speak louder than words, and his oil background came through loud and clear when he passed the energy bill last year. Lots of unnecessary incentives for the oil industry (like Exxon isn't making enough money already), and just a small bone for the RE industry with those tax credits for installation of RE systems. Mind you, its better than nothing, but the overall bill went totally against what he was saying in the speech last night.”

“It's not the government's job to create technology.”

“GOD THIS HURTS....okay just went out and punted a terrier ...feel better. Nigal is right. This government was started by men who were terrified of a central government. The Constitution was designed to protect us from government.

I would like to see government service be like the Draft, you take a test, get a number and then when you get called you serve X number of years in the house, or X number of years in the Senate, Only the President and the State Governments would be elected. When your term in the Beltway ends...GO HOME, Return to the world you helped create.”

“The federal government's job is to maintain a standing millitary for the protection of America, Americans and it's interests and to protect the rights of the states. Anything else is out of bounds and unconstitutional.”

“5% should cover the bill”

“Would you say getting us off oil qualifies as "Americans and it's interests", Nigal? Remember, Bush is talking about supplying the money for private industry and labs to research the next generation of our energy supply, not putting that final solution under US gov't control.”

“I thought the President calling out the Democrat's for their whining and trashing the military was over due.”