Unions (not) Working for You and your Fa milies

“"And yet they have a disproportionate amount of influence on our governmental leads? Does this not bother you? It should…"

Huh?

Labor has relatively little influence.

But like I said.....
"I suppose just about anything democratic gets neo-fascist panties in a bunch.”
MarkO
11:18:37 AM

Any threat, no matter how insignificant, to the power of the oligarchs, reactionaries, industrialists, capitalists, landowners, etc sure gets them panties in a wad.”

“They influence where our tax dollars go in supporting candidates.

Insignificant?

Millions of dollars wasted on overpaying underqualified teachers is insignificant? Guess you don't care about the minds of our youth MarkO.

typical”

““Huh?

Labor has relatively little influence.”

Can we deny that the teacher’s union is not the single most powerful influencer in the work force? Their own agenda points such as nuclear proliferation and other non educational points show this to be true. The group more powerful might be the AARP but they don’t even work any more.”

“Sarge, when you get through deciding how qualified they are and how much teachers should make, I'm sure you won't mind letting one of them return the favor.


The things you're saying are right out of Limbaugh's book.

U2, Nigal!!

typickal !!
last edited: 7/25/05 12:11:09 PM”

“Sarge, when you get through deciding how qualified they are and how much teachers should make, I'm sure you won't mind letting one of them return the favor.

I'll ask my wife since she's a teacher. Acceptable MarkY?”

“Sure thing Sargie, that ought to be a incorruptable source.”

“"The things you're saying are right out of Limbaugh's book.

U2, Nigal!!"

Having never read one of his books I'll have to take your word for this as it seems you have read his books.”

“Ha, I tried to read his book but it was total bullschit.

Can't read??

I suppose that lyin' blabber-mouth is on the radio for guys like you.”

“You said a teacher.

Should I ask a friend of mine?

Let's see, I'm friends with a school administrator, several school board members, 2 principals and about a dozen teachers from various schools.

Pick one. I know I know. They're all corruptable, right MarkO?”

“"Can't read??

I suppose that lyin' blabber-mouth is on the radio for guys like you.”

No I read just fine. Just never needed to read any of his books. In the limited amount I have heard his radio show I've enevr even heard him speaking about the unions. Where do you get this information? Can you direct me to a source where I can read what he does say about unions?”

“^ ^ ^ Mutt ^ ^ ^

Did you see that fallacy?”

““Libbies aren't against Big Brother anymore like in the 60s.

They've become what they hate.”
Sarge
11:59:36 AM

I gotta be careful here since Sarge didn't actually say that organized labor was Big Brother.

But I think the implication was there.

Ya gotta be really far gone to believe that a democratic organization like a labor union is Big Brother.

I guess propaganda really works on some folks.

Sarge must be off somewhere ferreting out communists.”

“MarkO.

Let me draw you a picture.

The government hires people from labor unions

The hired people pay the labor unions money

The labor union money goes to elect specific candidates

Those candidates support the labor unions

The government hires people from those labor unions

etc etc etc”

“Damn, are the communists back? Gotta duck under the desk to protect myself against thermonuclear radiation. That's what we did in grade school, and I'm sure Mrs. Serfis didn't lie to us. Damn commies!”

““Damn, are the communists back? Gotta duck under the desk to protect myself against thermonuclear radiation. That's what we did in grade school, and I'm sure Mrs. Serfis didn't lie to us. Damn commies!”

Why did you ask about the communists and not the fascists geo? MarkO brought them up first.”

“Just remember to keep your hands on the backside of your neck Geo. That will keep all the bad stuff out.”

“Uh huh, and they have vast power and wealth with which to control us.......all of us.

"The government hires people from labor unions."

That's a strange and very un-specific statement.

"The hired people pay the labor unions money."

Members must pay dues.

"The labor union money goes to elect specific candidates."

Which laws are being broken here?

"Those candidates support the labor unions."

Yeah, kind of a no-brainer??

"The government hires people from those labor unions."

Hires who for what??

You're not makin' a lot of sense, try some cut and paste.”

““"Can't read??

I suppose that lyin' blabber-mouth is on the radio for guys like you.”

No I read just fine. Just never needed to read any of his books. In the limited amount I have heard his radio show I've enevr even heard him speaking about the unions. Where do you get this information? Can you direct me to a source where I can read what he does say about unions?”
Nigal
12:21:22 PM
7/25/05”

“I sure as hell did bring up "the fascists".

We are witnessing a rise in neo-fascism......just callin' a "spade a spade".”

“MarkO.

I see that this is all very confusing to you.

That explains your support of the unions.

I have a feeling if that money was going to support Bush and co., you'd be marching on the capital.

Of course, we all know that, but you're playing dumb because it's the only way you can justify your beliefs.”

“Bush and Company are opposed to organized labor.

It's a no-brainer.”

“You're catching on MarkO.

Keep thinking, you'll figure the whole picture out.”

““Bush and Company are opposed to organized labor.

It's a no-brainer.”

How so MarkO? Can you point me to any comments made by Bush that show he is against labor? Can you point me to any policies that show this to be true? I'd really like to know this about my pres if he is.

No wait, don't answer! Answer the Rush comments first and then we can move on to this one...”

“"democratic organization like a labor union"

Now THAT's funny. Union leaders are dictators for life.

That's why the rebel unions are breaking away. So they can have their own say, and not march in lockstep with the AFL-CIO 'leaders', who are nothing more than puppets of the Dem party.”

“Union leaders puppets of the Democractic party? Sorry SS, but that's an incredibly dumb thing to say. You claim that no-one knows what you really believe, so do you believe this of is it just Dem trolling on your part?
Yes the unions have an interest in the Dems getting back to power - but it's as a result of shared interests. Dems have traditionally been much more receptive to union interests than the Republicans. Are they supposed to keep out of politics altogether. Then maybe businesses should be banned from spending any money in any political way shape or form. Actuially I think it would be a good idea to ban both. Might clean up the political process a bit.
last edited: 7/25/05 1:03:05 PM”

“Businesses banned from spending money??

Y2 - Nice comparison! You're nuts!

These unions ARE the government.

Their workers work FOR the government.

They ban their workers from supporting candidates, yet they take THEIR (and therefore, taxpayer) money and use it to support candidates.

Why can't you see the problem here?

It's you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. And the problem grows and grows.

You can't seriously support that!”

“That's a pretty 'dumb' thing for you to say, Y2.
The Unions march right down the Dem line.”

“Yes SS - as they have many shared interests. If I owned or ran a big energy company, like say Ken Lay, I'd support the Republicans, as I know they are looking after my interests rather than my customers or the American people.”

“So, Y2, what Union do you pay dues to?”

“Seriously I think the best way to clean up politics is to cap the amount that can be spent on Campaigns and to void election results for any one who violates this. You'd have to rely much more on volunteers doing groundwork than TV ads, but I don't think this a bad thing.”

“I've never belonged to a union SS. Never paid any dues or have a union represent me in any way. I think many have appalling rules that stop progress, but I also think that offering workers some protection is a good thing.”

“but I also think that offering workers some protection is a good thing

Now that the derpression is over, we have that protection.

It's called "laws".”

“Your all wrong !! I started the union just to get rich and powerful so I can get laid!”

“Y2 - Well, according to MarkO at the first part of this thread, you need to keep your mouth shut, since you are not a Union member.
Personally, I do not agree with MarkO on that.”

“This is actually a good thing. The debate, and reason for the split is as simple as this: should unions allocate resources to supporting politicians, or recruiting new members. The SEIU faction wants to focus soley on organizing Walmart - kudos! The rest of the AFL-CIO will be using its' resources to maintain and enhance current labor laws.

Both approaches will help the unions economically, and overall enhance worker's lives. I almost look at this like an investment portfolio. You don't allocate all your resources in one basket, you spread them around. If the greedy corporate bastards now have to spend big money fighting massive organizing campaigns and paying for Tom DeLay's golf trips, it is good for the middle and lower class in this country.

This message should be ignored by the Axis of Idiots (Nigal, Sarge, and the oh so approppo S.S.)

It would be nice to hear the views of other union folks on the issue.”

“Projecting on me again, Stovedewd.
Thanks just the same but I'll speak for myself, unless you want to play it two ways.

"Now THAT's funny. Union leaders are dictators for life."

That is completely false!!
You're either an idiot or a liar to say that.
You can't be a complete fool!”

“Hi MarkO, ever going to get around to my two last posts to you? I mean, unless of course you were simply spouting picket sign hyperboli, or course. But I doubt you'd do that. Not on a subject as important as our hard working men and women.”

“BB - Any consideration for the majority of citizens here? or are you just focused on the lives of the union workers? You're ok with screwing everybody else over?”

“All the mad dog neo-cons can do is parrot the usual anti-labor proprganda.

That is an interesting take on the issue, BB.

I heard just a bit about it on *NPR this morning.

*another "well-known" part of the massive kommie konspiracy”

““You guys don't play the game, you don't make the rules.”
MarkO
9:03:33 AM
7/25/05
Pretty clear to me. LOL”

“"*another "well-known" part of the massive kommie konspiracy”

LOL! You didn't even look at my link did you? NPR is where I heard it and when I did a search for the story on line they were the ONLY ones carrying the story. NPR rawks! And besides, at leaste I gave a link. You still havn't backed up your last two parrotings.”

“Yeah, but it's pure fodder for the idiots, lol. Looks like Walmart might be in for a fight! Maybe my taxes will go down once the unions get those folks decent benefits, so I will no longer have to subsidize thier healthcare, welfare, etc.

But then again, I could just keep watching the WAlMart commercial about the store manager in BFE who thinks WalMart is GREAT for his town, and formulate my opinion on that alone.”

“Nawwwwwww....too easy.
last edited: 7/25/05 2:04:42 PM”

“OK Nigal, the Republican party is pro-business to the point of being anti-labor.

This has been the case for many years.

Their mission has been to wage class warfare on behalf of the upper class, a re-distribution of wealth upward.

Labor laws in this country have been weakened over the years in favor of business.

If you don't believe, I don't care.

You have plenty of nutty ideas anyway.

"BB - Any consideration for the majority of citizens here? or are you just focused on the lives of the union workers? You're ok with screwing everybody else over?"
Sarge
1:56:33 PM

That is laughable.
You are delusional.
All one needs to do is read your profile.
"...socialists are infiltrating our country..."

(why am I arguing with a lunatic?)

(talk to your self much, self?)

(shut it, MarkO!!)”

“SS can buy cheap Crystal Lite so Walmart is great.

I've still not nor ever will darken WalMart's doors.”

“Y2 - Damn straight!
LOL”

“If an ad hominem is easier for you MarkO, go for it.”

““OK Nigal, the Republican party is pro-business to the point of being anti-labor.

This has been the case for many years.

Their mission has been to wage class warfare on behalf of the upper class, a re-distribution of wealth upward.

Labor laws in this country have been weakened over the years in favor of business.

If you don't believe, I don't care.

You have plenty of nutty ideas anyway."

Yes, maybe I do but at least I can back them up at least from time to time (check out the whole thread and all the links I give for my positions). You got nuttin' Chief. Nuttin' but claims and conspiracies.”

“and weeeeeeeeeed”

“The real successful periods in America have seen a boom in the income and power of the middle classes, and eneabling more people to enter that class.

I don't think giving more advantages to the rich and widening the gap between rich and poor is the best way for America to continue to be the best country in the world to live, as it is now. You may think that will lift up everyone's standard of living, but the benefits seem to be coming to an ever-smaller group.

I see unions as helping to grow the middle classes - but I can see that in many instances they need to be more flexible in adapting to the modern workplace.”