Presidential Term Limits

“In recent months two proposals have been introduced to the House of Representatives to amend the Consitution of the United States and repeal the 22nd amendment. The 22nd amendment was put place to limit the number of times a president could be in office to two terms.

The were no limits when George Washington was President. He decided that 2 terms were enough. There were a few who tried for 3 terms but failed except for FDR

This amendment was put into the Consitution after FDR was elected 4 times.

Just because someone is popular enough to be elected more than two terms does not mean it is a good idea to actually let them do so. Dictators do not always come to power by military coups; sometimes they get elected. Ferdinand Marcos was elected to be the leader of the Philippines, but he imposed martial law and became a dictator. Alberto Fujimori was elected president of Peru. He was popular for defeating the Maoist Shining Path rebels, but by his third term he was abusing the power of government because it had gone to his head. Anyone can be corrupted by power and the longer a government official is in power, the more he or she will be tempted to think they deserve their power and abuse it.

FYI Bill Clinton has proposed that we the people should change the 22nd Amendment to allow the President to be elected more than twice.

Do you think this amendment needs to be repealed or not. Even if it passes I think it has to be ratified by the states.”

“Did republicans propose this?”

“I saw a report on TV the other day about this being talked about now in the H of R. I did a search and found that article. It turns out what I posted was from a yr ago.

Both of those proposals were from Democrats BTW.”

“I find that surprising. I figured it would be GOP. The GOP pushed it through because of FDR and they were the only party, until Billy, to be adversly affected by it.”

“Yes, it would have to be ratified by the states.

FDR was a wartime president at a time when warfare was global. Much was at stake at the time - a lot more than what is allegedly at stake now.

Republicans at the time campaigned on a "no third term" platform. The amendment was a response to that and to avoid a president gaining unprecedented power.

Some might argue that Roosevelt had too much power, or that he misused it. I don't think he did, at least any moreso that any other president regardless of how many terms served. But the fact remains that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

People think when their party is in power a third term is a good thing, but when the other party is in power it is not. Comes under the heading of "Be careful what you wish for."

I do not favor term limits for members of Congress. I do favor the two-term limit for presidents, governors, and mayors. The executive branch is the likely locus of abuse of power.

We assume that this nation will continue as a democratic republic, that the rule of law and the Constitution will prevail. That assumption is not based on any historical fact. Nations and societies have flourished and then died in the space of so many centuries. Britain was the world's foremost power for a few centuries. Our own ascendency took place over three short centuries. There is no guarantee we will remain the dominant power forever.

Hubris carries a hefty price tag, and it is good to remember that fact whether we are the president or a voting citizen. Two terms is enough time to carry out a mandate. It's been proven that even one term is enough to undo what was previously done.”

“I for one like the fact that we have assured turnover in 8 years.”

“Geo, I am in favor of term limits. I feel a lot of these Senators and Representatives have been there to long. New blood and ideas may help.”

“The reason I excluded members of Congress, and by extension leglislatures, is twofold: there has not heretofore been a precedent, and the voters tend to be closest to these offices and in effect have term limits already in their power. There are cases of abuse of power, to be sure, but there are also cases where seniority has a beneficial effect. That opportunities for abuse of power have a limiting effect in the amount of power.

For instance, you and I might argue that Bobby Byrd of West Virginia should be put out to pasture before he gets the entire state renamed for himself. But there are folks in West Virginia who believe they should get all that's coming to them (which is still not a hell of a lot), so they keep returning Bobby to Congress. Since he represents them and not you or me, I think that is their choice to make and they should be entitled to make it every six years. If they don't like what he's doing, it's within their power to vote him out.

But I don't mind the debate on the issue, and if the people decide on term limits, so be it. But I think that's a little like major league baseball team owners wanting a salary cap because they don't trust themselves to refrain from over paying free agents.”

“bad idea”

“I would be in favor of this.

Under certain conditions...

For instance, campaign finance reform to the point that severely limits the funding one can get. Doing away with the "business trips" to the resorts and the beaches and the duck hunting and the golf courses and the skiing and the lakes, etc.

I'd want more severe penalties up to and including removal from office for violation of these reforms.

I'd also, most definitely, LOVE to see tort reform forced somehow in this because honestly, I feel that's one of the most pressing issues our nation faces at this time. Major caps on liabilities, caps on restitution and reform in what is considered gross negligence in the case of health care. Yeah, I know, it'll never happen but meh.

The reasons I despise term limits is that if I want to vote for someone, damnit, I want to vote for someone. Again, I add the caveat that I would surely have to see serious reforms in the big money and lobbying before I would ever push for such an ammendment.”

“What NoProb said!”

“Listen, the only reform that we need is in the Census Bureau.

The Census counts illegal immigrants in the census counts that establish Congressional redistricting.

This means that RED STATES in the South and West gain Congressional seats because illegal immigrants live there. Law-abiding Blue states lose congresspeople because they do a better job of attracting legal immigrants.

Of course, the illegals who would likely vote for the Democrat party aren't allowed to vote. And the majority-Republicans who do vote in these states gain voting clout because of illegal immigration.

Republicans want the illegals in the country, but they want to keep them from voting.”

“That's certainly an interesting theory, RL.”

“So this would open the door for the immoral left to get Klinton back in office? Tell ya what, we’ll give you this if you give us the ability to elect a foreign candidate. Deal? LOL!”

“Nigal wants the big muscle bound girly man for president! :)”

““Nigal wants the big muscle bound girly man for president! :)”

Ya, dis iz true. He's shown some real balls so far and I think he could do well at the next level. Provided of course he stops using lines from his movies in speeches.”

“I'm not sure about this, but hasn't his popularity taken a hit in Cali?”

“Yup!

We could get Hilary elected and then we can start tearing down the churches and putting pornography into the TV and raising taxes for everybody and spend it on lazy people who watch Jerry Springer and buy up all the land so that BIG BAD BUSINESS wouldn't do so much good for people.

I can't wait! Pornography for everyone!”

“Tree, yes it has”

“Do you like PORN? Vote Democrat!”

“Hmm, short political career, so far. Rough, at best, in the "net results" department. Nothing of historic significance to boast.

I don't know. What would make me want to vote for this man?”

“I go by results Tree, not what everyone else thinks. He stands up to the Kalifornia politicians and I like that. All they need to do is get rid of the loonies like Boxer and clean out their crooked courts in Frisco and they should be right back on track.”

“Tree, he is another Jesse "The Body" Ventura..comes in fast and fizzles out”

“Results? Then, this is way premature. There are no results to speak of. Damn, Edwards was critisized for having too short of a career in as a one term senator in running for VP. Apply that reasoning here...”

“And if you are blaming Boxer and Cali politicians for holding Arnold back from producing results, I would like to see some concrete evidence of that before I would subscribe to that....”

“Yup. Nigal likes him because he opposes everything that Californians like. That's a good recipe for a successful governorship.”

“how is Boxer who is in Congress holding back the governor of calif??”

“Oh, come on, Ewker, isn't it obvious? It's because she's a liberal who supports gay marriage and gun bans. The connection is obvious.”

“She's also exposing the troops in Iraq to al Qaeda. If Boxer gets defeated in the next election, Osama bin Laden will not longer force American servicewomen to get abortions.”

“RL, I have some questions about your US Census theory. Firstly, wehy do you think the blue states attract legal immigrants? I live in West Texas and I know SO many spanish speaking people first and second generation from Mexico it isn't even funny. And, when you refer to "legal immigrants" are you referring to those just with green cards, or those that actually become citizens? Because I can tell you, that the town I live in is almost 40% hispanic at this point (which makes them the largest ethnic group in this town and perhaps the county) or a majority if you like. I think a lot of the South is like that, in fact. Plenty of non anglo non caucasians living here. Yet, Bush carried these states despite that. Just something to mull over.

I do remember one news report I saw during the last week of the election that I was livid about. Kerry supporters were hitting the Mexican American Barrios and going door to door and telling them that Kerry was like Bill Clinton. This because apparently Bill had a niec high approval rating among Hispanic Americans. Like Hispanics are too dumb to figure it out on their own... nisulting in the extreme.

Anyway, neat theory about the Census.”

“[tap,tap,tap] Is this thing on? What post are YOU reading Tree?

“Results? Then, this is way premature. There are no results to speak of.”

He stood up to the career politicians and told them to pass a budget or send it to the people. His use of referendums is another thing I like. He likes to let the PEOPLE decide.

“Damn, Edwards was critisized for having too short of a career in as a one term senator in running for VP. Apply that reasoning here...”

Did I say I wanted him to run in ‘08 after a single term as gov? Nope.

“And if you are blaming Boxer and Cali politicians for holding Arnold back from producing results, I would like to see some concrete evidence of that before I would subscribe to that....”

Where the hell did I say this? [hint] I didn’t.”

““Yup. Nigal likes him because he opposes everything that Californians like. That's a good recipe for a successful governorship.”

Please keep your comments concerning me and to me to yourself RL. I neither care nor respect your opinions of me.”

“And don't forget the WMD. I hear Al Qaeda is working on a bomb that can attack fertility clinics. If they attacked just one cryogenic freezer, they would take out thousands of unborn babies. We can't let it happen. We've got to send all the Mexicans back to Mexico.”

“WTF???”

“I apologize, Nigal. Strike my personal comments from the record.

I'll be honest. I'm ripping off the illegal immigrants in the census thing from REPUBLICAN U.S. House member Candice Miller of Michigan.

Just to establish the core fact. The U.S. does count illegals in the census and uses it in redistricting.

I take back the idea that Blue states gain legal immigrants. Blue states just don't gain as much in the illegal department because they tend to be North and East - farther away from Mexico.

But, the calculations I've seen say that Michigan has one less Congressperson because of illegals in the census count. Lots of other Blue states also lose one or two seats.

Of course, it does also benefit California, which gains 8 seats because of illegal immigration. However, the net overall gain is a benefit for Republicans and Republican states.

BTW, the Democrat Party will never use this as a campaign issue because it would destroy any attempt to gain the Hispanic vote.”

““I apologize, Nigal. Strike my personal comments from the record."

Stay away from me and leave me alone is all I ask.”

“RL, welcome to the ranks of people a certain person doesn't like.”

“Grumpy McFadin”

“Nigal, be aware that the politics have nothing to do with anything personal. It is possible to fight hard on politics and respect and love someone.

I consider you a friend, Nigal. That's why I sent you an invite to my wedding. And groomsmen are about half Republican, half Democrat.

So, don't take anything that I post personally. And I apologize if I've crossed the line. But the internet is a place for big boys, you know?”

“Oh I’m not pissed or hurt. I have simply disconnected myself from caring about it. A long time ago you (and Ewker as well) would continually try to discuss politics with me and I continually asked that we simply not discuss it between us because I liked and respected both of you because I considered you both friends. You two were the ONLY two I wouldn’t even tread that ground with. Neither one of you respected my wishes nor our “friendship” enough to capitulate and felt that your own opinions and being right were more important.

Again, no hard feelings but I simply don’t have the will nor the time to invest in passive aggressive relationships. So please just direct your comments towards others who are willing to play the internet game.”

“so that is what it is all about, heck that is the first I heard or even knew about that.
I have to admit I was scratching my head wondering what happened.
last edited: 6/16/05 12:19:28 PM”

“All they need to do is get rid of the loonies like Boxer and clean out their crooked courts in Frisco and they should be right back on track.”
Nigal


Is it that unreasonable to infer from this that you are placing some blame on Boxer and the like?”

“"Is it that unreasonable to infer from this that you are placing some blame on Boxer and the like?”

For general leftist mayhem, yes. Not for obstructionism on the state level. She’s on the federal level as a state rep. She has nothing to do with Arni and I knew that. So your conclusion was a bit off. The THEY in my post is Californians in general. Not the governor. It’s OK, we do this all the time.”

“I've not made up my mind about presidential term limits. I think some limits make sense, but maybe it should be more than two terms?

Sometimes I wonder if it would help to have the terms be six years. Too much time is spent campaigning - but if we are going to amend the constitution, maybe some serious campaign reform would be better.”

“"Stay away from me and leave me alone is all I ask."
Nigal
12:58:31 PM
6/16/05

LOL”

““Oh I’m not pissed or hurt. I have simply disconnected myself from caring about it. A long time ago you (and Ewker as well) would continually try to discuss politics with me and I continually asked that we simply not discuss it between us because I liked and respected both of you because I considered you both friends. You two were the ONLY two I wouldn’t even tread that ground with. Neither one of you respected my wishes nor our “friendship” enough to capitulate and felt that your own opinions and being right were more important.

Again, no hard feelings but I simply don’t have the will nor the time to invest in passive aggressive relationships. So please just direct your comments towards others who are willing to play the internet game.”
Nigal
12:14:40 PM
6/16/05


I hear ya, Nigal.

My usage of TT was to find hiking partners, something TT has been a roaring success at.
Three political posters that backpack little or none, continually make personal attacks on me because they do not respect anyone's opinion other than their own. That's OK, because I will not be backpacking with them.
My time and backpacking dollars are far to valuable to waste hiking with angry a$$holes.
I figure if they can't be civil in a discussion, why would they be civil backpacking? It's their loss.”

“Wouldn't it be more civil on the part of the offended party to just use the "ignore this user" feature? I think some people would rather publically try to humiliate the person than to use that feature. Makes me wonder what kind of friend they would be in real life.”

“sarge, Just so you know very little if any political stuff is even talked about on trips, at least the ones I have been on.
People tend to leave that discussion for the boards.”

“ditto, ewker.”