“Sarge, when you prove a liberal wrong, they refuse to admit it and try to make it look like they've won a moral victory or something by ignoring the issue. Pathetic!
last edited: 3/02/05 10:30:29 AM”

“lol Nigal - Look Oryx - this is where you don't read. I've not said that Haliburton is corrupt or even bad. I've just said that when a company is so well connected with an administration, that it's wise to keep an eye on them, and every move should be examined. It's an ongoing process and will continue.
What evidence do you suggest I post to convince you that it's a good idea to check on a company that's being paid billions and has had some questions raised over exactly what it is providing for that money.
You seem to be suggesting they should be able to do as they wish. These checks should be in place whatever company it is.
Even if you accept this army report as clearing Haliburton of any wrongdoing it doesn't mean the checks should stop from both within the government and from private groups and the media outside it.
And again if you accept this report to be perfectly true - then it just means Haliburton is doing a job is is being paid handsomely for. How does this reflect well on Bush?
last edited: 3/02/05 10:37:44 AM”

“So to be clear, ... are all the liberals in agreement with y2 that the Bush administration has done nothing wrong, but maybe we should just watch them in case they do?

Are we all clear on that?”

“Yes Sarge - in this instance there's no clear evidence that Haliburton has done anything wrong. There have been some questions raised and investigations into the multiple tenticles of Haliburton and these should continue.”

“y2 backpeddals again!”

“First there were "issues" and "making money hand over fist" and a general connotation of wrong-doing. Now it's "Halliburton did nothing wrong".

You just can't make this stuff up. It's too damn funny!”

“{snicker}
last edited: 3/02/05 10:59:07 AM”

“Oryx - ok last post. Issues. Investigations into cost of fuel, number of meals delivered. Making money hand over fist - have made a HUGE sum of money from wars in Iraq and Afganistan.
Has any completely damning evidence been found? No. Have there been questions raised and do there need to be more? Yes. Will investigations continue - yes.
It's like special needs politics.
You can take what connotations you like, you seem to be in your own little world as it is. If I could be assed to go google something to find about Haliburton then I would - it's out there - i've read it in the past. Be a good little student and do a little more reasearch.”

“Maybe we should "specially investigate" you y2. I mean, no wrong doing has been found yet ... but who knows? Maybe we'll find something!?”

“Sarge - Give me a $7 billion no bid contract and I'd expect it.”

“no bid contract

Amazing! Proof of a bidding process was posted, but y2 still pretends there isn't. Don't you have a sense of shame or embarrassment?

Here's more proof:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: January 16, 2004

HALLIBURTON SUBSIDIARY WINS FOLLOW-ON OIL CONTRACT IN IRAQ

HOUSTON, Texas – Halliburton today confirmed the US Army Corps of Engineers awarded KBR the contract to continue its operations for the Restore Iraqi Oil (RIO) program in the southern section of Iraq. The contract was awarded through a full and fair competitive bidding process. KBR is the engineering and construction subsidiary of Halliburton (NYSE:HAL).
last edited: 3/02/05 2:31:26 PM”

“This is like taking candy from babies!”

“http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/04/25/60minutes/main551091.shtml

Even before the first shots were fired in Iraq, the Pentagon had secretly awarded Halliburton subsidiary Kellogg, Brown & Root a two-year, no-bid contract to put out oil well fires and to handle other unspecified duties involving war damage to the country’s petroleum industry. It is worth up to $7 billion.”

“http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A56429-2003Aug27?language=printer

Halliburton, the company formerly headed by Vice President Cheney, has won contracts worth more than $1.7 billion under Operation Iraqi Freedom and stands to make hundreds of millions more dollars under a no-bid contract awarded by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, according to newly available documents.”

“http://washingtontimes.com/business/20031029-091743-3685r.htm
Halliburton's contract, worth $1.59 billion so far, will be extended until December or January while the government receives and evaluates revised bids for replacement work that could total $2 billion.”

“This just goes to show the media has failed the public yet again. Although, to be fair, there was initially some confusion on the nature of the contract awarded to KBR. But the fact is, the Corps of Engineers itself made public its LOGCAP bidding process that KBR won in 2001. That's straight from the horse's mouth!”

“LMAO, Media failing the public yet again!!! Those liberal bastions the Washington Times and Fox news quoting Bush directly are to blame.
the media is simply reporting that people are questioning the contract, which they are, justifyably so. When that much taxpayers money is being handed out then they need look at the deals.”

“From your Idol's mouth himself.
"If there's an overcharge, like we think there is, we expect that money be repaid," the president told reporters when asked about the Halliburton (search) contract controversy.

This is why an eye needs to be kept on things.”

“Like I said, there was some confusion initially. But the Corps chief himself made public the bidding process.

You have NO POINT!

There was a BIDDING PROCESS!

HALIBURTON WON!!!”

“which particular contract in the raft that have been awarded to Haliburton are you talking about Oryx. And oh yeah, you're still yet to explain how a free-market healthcare system would work.”

“Don't play dumb, y2.”

“seriously, there have been many contracts awarded to Haliburton and it's subsidiaries. Some bid, some non-bid. Which one are you talking about? It's not just one single contract you know.”

“HALLIBURTON KBR WINS LOGISTICS CIVIL AUGMENTATION CONTRACT FROM US ARMY:

December 17, 2001 -- Halliburton KBR Government Operations division was awarded the U.S. Army Logistics Civil Augmentation Program (LOGCAP) III contract. Halliburton KBR Government Operations was formerly known as Brown & Root Services. Established by the U.S. Army to fulfill the Department of Defense's global mission during contingency events, LOGCAP provides the warfighter with additional capabilities to rapidly support and augment the logistic requirements of its deployed forces through use of a civilian contractor. Brown & Root Services served as the original LOGCAP contractor and supported contingency events from 1992 to 1997 in locations ranging from Somalia to Haiti and subsequently the Balkans. With the continued presence of U.S. troops in Bosnia, Brown & Root Services was awarded a two-year sole source contract by the US Army Corps of Engineers' Transatlantic Programs Center, on behalf of US Army Europe. Subsequently, the Corps competitively awarded Brown & Root Services a five-year contract, beginning in May 1999, to provide logistics services throughout the Balkans. LOGCAP III is a 10-year Task Order contract, with a one-year base period and nine one-year options. Over the past 10 years, Halliburton KBR provided over $2.5 billion in support services to deployed forces under LOGCAP I and the subsequent Balkans contracts. The contract requires the contractor to deploy within 72 hours of notification and to deliver Combat Support and Combat Service Support (CS/CSS) for 25,000 troops within 15 days. Halliburton KBR must be ready to furnish these warfighter services 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year under any condition and at any location around the globe. By working with the Army planners, Halliburton KBR, drawing on its proven experience, will provide for the construction of facilities and infrastructure of base camps including billeting, mess hall, food preparation, potable water, sanitation, showers, laundry, transportation, utilities, warehousing and other logistical support. Also included is support of the Reception, Staging, Onward Movement, Integration (RSOI) process of U.S. Forces as they enter or depart their theater of operation by sea, air or rail. Contract: operations spread across 60 different site locations in Kuwait and Iraq. Revenues on these projects increased from $320 million in the second quarter of 2003 to over $2 billion in the fourth quarter of 2003.
last edited: 3/02/05 3:03:51 PM”

“Again, with me experience as a gov’s contractor, y2s points are very very common operating procedures or situations that happen with gov't contractors especially in times of war. My only question would be how the Pentagon had secretly awarded Halliburton as CBS claims? To the press it’s a dishonest secret to the military it’s for authorized use only. Sorry but 9 out of 10 the press is in the wrong in these situations. I really get tired of the media's attitude toward operationally secure information.”

“Trailhound. I agree with you. There is a need for secrecy in this, and openning up a wide bidding process ahead of the war would have been impossible. Bt I think the best way to do this is to hold these things open to scrutiny post operations - as has been done in this instance. That's the only way of keeping things under control. You can be sure Halliburton is now being more circumspect in their accounting and is better able to justify where the money is being spent.”

“I also guarantee that Halliburton is keeping their nose clean to a higher level than before. Over the course of the contract various task/project arise. It is the contractor's job to fulfill the needs in the area of support. To fulfill the needs the gov't organization will specify exactly what it expects to be done or problem to solve. Thus, if fraud is occurring, it is by the hands of the governing organization. However, I do not see the direct connection with any presidential administration.”

“

Halliburton Overcharged $108 Million, Report Says

Excess billing for postwar fuel imports to Iraq by the Halliburton Company totaled more than $108 million, according to a report by Pentagon auditors that was completed last fall but has never been officially released to the public or to Congress.

In one case, according to the report, the company claimed that it had paid more than $27 million to transport liquefied petroleum gas it had purchased in Kuwait for just $82,000 - a fee the auditors tartly dismissed as "illogical."

The fuels report, by the Defense Contract Audit Agency, was one of nine audits involving a subsidiary of Halliburton, Kellogg, Brown & Root, that were completed in October 2004, in the month before the American presidential elections. But the administration has kept all of them confidential despite repeated requests from both Republican and Democratic members of Congress.

[...]”

“Oryx - supporter of government waste and corruption. Hold your head high!”

“http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/business/3085603

"The implication is definitely misleading," Hall said. "Transporting fuel into Iraq was a mission fraught with danger, which increased the prices that firms were willing to offer for transportation."

Halliburton has seen 61 of its workers and subcontractors die in Iraq and Kuwait, many while delivering fuel.

Army officials were desperate to get fuel into Iraq, fearing the lack of such basic necessities as cooking and heating fuel would lead to greater unrest and support for the insurgency.

But efforts to truck in fuel were hampered by repeated attacks on fuel convoys, delays organizing military escorts, supply route closures and changing delivery points, company officials said. Security was so dicey, in fact, that tanker trucks were lucky to make two round trips per month.

And because neighboring Kuwait had few trucks available to transport fuel, Halliburton had to bring in trucks from neighboring countries and contract for a barge, Hall said.

You ask me to deliver q-tips to troops, I'm not going to charge you by the value of the q-tip, but by the risk, and logistics it takes to deliver that q-tip. If the last 61 guys who tried were killed, then the price for guy number 62 goes up.

Oryx, right again!!!!
last edited: 3/15/05 10:59:30 AM”

“"$27 million to transport liquefied petroleum gas it had purchased in Kuwait for just $82,000"
LMAO - of course it's not worthwhile keeping an eye on them.”

“From Oryx's link: "It is illogical that it would cost $27,514,833 to deliver $82,100 in LPG fuel," officials from the Defense Contract Audit Agency noted in the report.”

“You guys sure set yourself up to look stupid. The amount of LPG in question is:

Company officials say they transported about 3.5 million barrels of LPG from Kuwait to Iraq via truck and barge. (from the link above)

A typical tanker truck holds 7500 gallons. A barrel is 42 gallons, so that's 178.5 barrels per tanker truck.

3.5 million divided by 178.5 is 19,606 trips, while people are trying to kill you.

Now to Violin's protest: It is illogical that it would cost $27,514,833 to deliver $82,100 in LPG fuel," officials from the Defense Contract Audit Agency noted in the report.

$27.5 million dollars divided by 19,606 trips is $1402 dollars per ROUND TRIP.

It's 300 miles from Kuwait to Baghdad, and then 300 miles back, so you are in danger for 600 miles.

Now factor in them having to ship in their own trucks, and the cost of the barges to ferry them into Iraq.

How much of that $1402 do you think the trucker gets to keep?

Would you risk your life over 600 miles, for a piece of $1402?

ORYX RIGHT AGAIN!!!! LOL!”

“Nov. 21, 2004, 10:44AM

Silence surrounds fates of contractors in Iraq
Some companies won't say exactly how, or how many, workers have died
By DAVID IVANOVICH
Copyright 2004 Houston Chronicle

WASHINGTON -- Halliburton Co. truck drivers Tim Bell and Bill Bradley disappeared April 9 when their convoy was attacked west of Baghdad. Did they die at the scene? Were they captured? Is there reason for hope?

No one will say.

Like those of many contractors caught in the violence of Iraq, their fates are shrouded in mystery.

The Army has conducted an investigation into the ambush, but the report is classified. Pentagon officials refused to discuss its contents, directing questions to Halliburton. The company referred questions back to the Pentagon.

"We have done everything in our power to find information and found that we are hitting a brick wall," Bradley's family wrote in an e-mail to the Houston Chronicle.

"We are crushed."

The military has turned heavily to private contractors to supplement the work of enlisted personnel, freeing military troops for combat. For pay of $80,000 or more, civilians go to Iraq to drive trucks, build bases, deliver mail and serve chow. They live on base, eat in the mess hall, shop at the PX.

And just like soldiers, they are attacked, abducted and sometimes killed.

When a U.S. soldier or Marine is killed in Iraq, the Pentagon provides to the public the individual's name, age and hometown, as well as a brief description of the cause of death.

When it comes to contractor casualties, the Pentagon has left it up to the company to report -- or not.

And the response has been mostly not.

At least 55 Halliburton employees and subcontractors have been killed and more than 100 others wounded in Iraq and Kuwait, according to the company. Other companies won't say how many of their workers are dead or injured, and the Pentagon isn't keeping track.

Halliburton has publicly identified just 12 of those dead workers, while the names of eight others have trickled out.

Halliburton does notify families in person when a contractor is killed and is providing health care expenses for the wounded.

The April 9 attack caught international attention because truck driver Tommy Hamill of Macon, Miss., was paraded by his captors before an Australian television crew. He later escaped and was rescued, making him the most famous U.S. worker in Iraq.

Bradley, a former Galveston resident, was driving the 14th truck in the 20-vehicle convoy. Few other details are known.

Like Hamill, Army Reserve Spc. Keith "Matt" Maupin of Batavia, Ohio, was captured in that ambush.

A few days after the attack, Al-Jazeera television showed a video of Maupin surrounded by gunmen. In June, Al-Jazeera showed another video of a blindfolded man, who the station said was later shown being shot. Pentagon officials have not been able to conclusively say whether Maupin was that man.

He is officially listed as captured, and a military source said the search for Maupin continues "every day."

What kind of search is being done for Bell and Bradley is unclear.

"Nobody seems to know what's going on," said Bell's sister, Felicia Carter of Mobile, Ala. RESOURCES
CONFIRMED DEATHS

Halliburton has revealed that 55 employees and subcontractors working in Iraq and Kuwait have been killed. But many of their names and causes of death remain unknown. Here are details of the casualties that have been announced or in the news.



Jeffery Serrett, 43, of Fredericksburg, Va., died Nov. 2. He was shot.

Felipe E. Lugo III,36, of Copperas Cove, Texas, in an Oct. 19 mortar attack while working on a military base near central Baghdad.


Roger Moffett, 40, of Freeport, Fla., in a Sept. 28 roadside bombing.



Kevin Rader,34, of Pendleton, Ore., in an Aug. 11 roadside bombing.




Vern O'Neal Richerson, 61, of Willis, Texas, in a July 2 mortar attack.



Walter J. Zbryski, 56, of Montverde, Fla., in a June 17 land mine blast.


James Gregory Wingate, 36, of Monticello, Ga., in a June 5 land mine blast.


Daniel Parker, 56, of Summerville, S.C., in a convoy attack. Casualty was announced May 7.


Rodrigo Reyes, 52, of Tanay, Philippines, in an April 28 convoy attack.



Stephen Hulett,

48, of Manistee, Mich., in an April 9 convoy attack.



Jack Montague, 52, of Pittsburg, Ill., in April 9 convoy attack.





Jeffery Parker, 45, of Lake Charles, La., in April 9 convoy attack.



<


Tony Johnson, 47, of Riverside, Calif., in April 9 convoy attack.



Steven Scott Fisher, 43, of Virginia Beach, Va., in April 9 convoy attack.


Tim Smith, 40, of Aztec, N.M., on April 8, while driving a truck.



Albert Luther "Al" Cayton, 60, of Walkersville, W. Va., in a Feb. 23 convoy attack.



Arthur Linderman Jr., 58, of Middletown, Del., in a Jan. 19 convoy attack.


Jody Deatherage, 44, of Llano, Texas, in a Jan. 21 collision.


Vernon Gaston, 46, of Lampasas, Texas, in a Sept. 3, 2003, convoy attack.


Fred Bryant Jr., 39, of Jacksonville, Fla., on Aug. 5, 2003. Truck ran over explosive device.



Sources: Halliburton, news reports, www.icasualties.org”

“ok, moron, lets put this into perspective for you.
Halliburton pays about 71 cents a gallon for bulk purchases in Kuwait.

So $82,000 buys about 115,500 gallons of gas.

A decent sized tanker can carry 5,000 gallons. Many can carry much more, but the US military has 5,000 gallon tankers, so we'll use that as a base.

That requires about 23 trucks into Iraq.

That's over $1,150,000 for taking a single truck of fuel into Iraq.

Now these drivers are being paid $80,000. I assume this is for a year and not per trip into Iraq.

You getting it yet?”

“Poor y2, stymied by the facts once again:

The portions of the audit report released Monday did not specify exactly how much fuel was involved in this billing.

Your "$27 million to transport liquefied petroleum gas it had purchased in Kuwait for just $82,000" is simply an unreliable statistic that doesn't reflect the situation accurately.

Y2 WRONG AGAIN!!!”

“#&%!$wit - do some reseach, the cost of bulk fuel in the gulf states is easy to find. And I said about 71 cents. It gives you an idea of the ballpark of these costs.

The other numbers come from the Defense Contract Audit Agency - damn they must be baised libs.

Treebeard is right. You really are a waste of time, bubbye.”

“You really are a waste of time, bubbye

Translation: I'm going to ignore the fact that my $/unit price statistic doesn't mean anything.”

“I just found something interesting:

Basic net income (loss) $(2.24) $0.01 $(0.02) $(2.25)

http://money.cnn.com/services/tickerheadlines/prn/datu005.P1.03012005090533.26174.htm

Halliburton LOST money in 2004! There's obviously no conspiracy here. Sorry, you guys lose (again)!”

“it was on Faux news last night that Halliburton is being investigated for over charging. Seems quite a few in Congress (both parties) are upset with Halliburton”

“Namecalling. Tisk tisk!
Take's a lot of smarts to call people names.”

“Halliburton 'off overcharging hook'

A senior US army officer has cleared the American engineering company Halliburton of any wrongdoing in relation to a contract to deliver fuel from Kuwait to Iraq, according to a newspaper report.
The Wall Street Journal says that the commander of the Army Corps of Engineers, Lieutenant General Robert Flowers, has exonerated the company's subsidiary Kellogg Brown & Root after Defense Department officials complained that the government had been overcharged by $100m.

The newspaper reports that more junior officers told General Flowers that the company had provided data to show that fuel was delivered at a fair and reasonable price.

Political interest in the US in the allegations of overcharging was heightened by the fact that Halliburton used to be run by the Vice President, Richard Cheney.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3372351.stml

ORYX RIGHT AGAIN!!!”

“In your face, y2! LOL!”

“oryx not right Just because some senior Army officer said they were ok doesn't mean squat. He doesn't control who does the investigating. Like I said a few post back both parties from Congress are looking into Halliburtons dealings
last edited: 3/16/05 2:30:07 PM”

“I see the site is now attracting Hitler Youth.”

“Ewker, anything less than "halliburton is totally guilty" is going to mean "squat" to you!”

“I see the site is now attracting Hitler Youth

Godwin's law - you lose! Ha ha!”

“LOL”

“oryx, and you know that how since I have only posted on this subject twice. Both of my post had to do what was on Fox news last night.
Your assuming again.”

“in English please????”