Bush and GOP bought off yet again!

“Credit card companies this time. Is there nothing that can't be bought from politicians for the right price.

Credit card firms make $30 billion a year, and they're being apparently being treated unfairly by Americans declaring bankruptcy - the majority of which it seems do so because of spiralling medical costs, which the administration does nothing to tackle.”

“I know. This is a sick abuse of the most unfortunate among us.

Even families facing financial ruin because the main breadwinner has been called up for Iraq are not shielded.

Funny how the rich and corporations can still protect their assets.

I heard one opinion that since red states have the highest rate of bankruptcy, this will hurt them the worst and they may finally realize they’ve been tricked into voting against their own interests through use of fake ‘values’ issues that somehow never seem to make it into legislation.

We’ll see.”

“Uhh, currently half of all U.S. bankruptcies are caused by medical bills. That has been the case for quiet possibly the last couple of decades now. This is not a new fact of life and certainly not new to the current administration or the previous. However, bankruptcy is one thing that almost completely will knock out medical bills. Now someone who thinks it wise to play with Credit Cards and do something really foolish like put medial bills on there. I don't know what to say other than stupid.”

“Dang Tories!!!!!”

“Apparently the backers of the plan said it'll cut consumer costs and make credit avaialble to those lower down the financial packing order.
A) - ya right, that's gonna happen. What's the incentive to lessen their profits when they are making 30 billion a year. Credit costs ain't coming down.
b) - Lets expose the poorer groups in society to more predatory lenders. What's in your wallet?”

“If you get the chance, take a look at the frontline on credit card companies. It's offered online.”

“"...packing order..." ynami??

That was a most fortuitous typo!


Roll up your sleeve and bend over.
Will that be regular or high test?
last edited: 3/09/05 1:38:03 PM”

“y2 I don't doubt your post. However, I don't see how this is a GOP or an administration's issue. My problem is with the idea that credit is a tool for building wealth which runs across the party lines.
last edited: 3/09/05 1:43:06 PM”

“"...packing order..."

Who pullin' this train? LOL!

I do hope you yourself have some type of insurance Y2. You're going to need someone to pop your arms back in their sockets after this pitiful stretch.”

“I listen to a lot of Christian financial shows.

I'm totally with them most of the time.

But there's this guy named Dave Ramsey. His whole show is about people avoiding debt at ALL COSTS. He tells people with a five year old Buick to buy a ten year old Buick to cut costs.

Well, anyway, I am totally with him. But it is sooo funny to hear him talk about things like this. He calls the credit card companies criminals and then has no problem with this bankruptcy change. He HATES debt, but then sees no problem when the government decides to spend 2 trillion dollars to finance private social security accounts.

But it's all good because George Bush walks with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

BTW, Air America needs a good financial show.”

“Basically a big hurdle in this legislation cleared today trailhound - making it more difficult for people to declare bankruptsy to escape debt.
The Dems wanted to soften the bill slightly, but again it looks like big corporations got exactly what they pay for. This is why it's a party issue.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS/03/09/bankruptcy.ap/index.html”

“Nigal - why is it a stretch. Credit card companies have coughed up the funds to the GOP and are now getting their reward. This reward comes largely at the expense of those in most difficulty.
They seem to think bankruptsy is an easy choice for people to make. I see it more as a last resort to give people any hope for the future.”

“So you go and buy something and you actually expect because of your circumstances someone/everyone else to pay your debts. I know it’s not that simple, but the principle of honesty and integrity should still stand. I guess I take too much pride in paying debts I've had.
last edited: 3/09/05 2:02:15 PM”

“Credit card companies have coughed up the funds to the GOP and are now getting their reward. - y2

One can say the same thing about funds to the Dems. Credit cards companies spread the wealth around, Dems and Reps.
Be interesting to see who all on the committee over this got funds from the companies.”

“Sure - and that's fine. Often bankruptcy is the final option for many though. Illness is the major factor behind the majority of these cases - I'm sure everyone hopes they don't get seriosly ill enough to not be able to work and pay medical bills, but it happens.
I also think there needs to be something to prevent the way credit is encouraged by these companies.”

“I’m with ya trailhead. Credit cards should be HARDER to get. There are huge costs that get passed along because of bankruptcy and failed payment on credit cards. It would be interesting to know the percentage of people who file run out and max out their cards before they file?

If ya work, ya eat. If ya don’t work, ya don’t eat.”

“Many peeps around here take ever single credit card offer they get and max it out on things they don't need, maybe on five or six cards. They get 1000s of dollars worth of 'stuff' they know they can't pay for or even intend to pay for.

The current bankrupt laws make it way to easy to walk away from the payments.”

“There is a penalty for this, it'll decimate your credit score, you'll prolly never get a house, pay more for insurance. I guarantee you this is not the easy option people think it is.
Nigal - these costs are the risk a lender factors in from the start. I'll bet ya you're not going to see any of the money saved by this bill. It'll will just add to the $30 billion annual profits of these companies. Less for the average and poor guy, more for the CEOs.
last edited: 3/09/05 2:19:53 PM”

“Yeah. People stealing from the defenseless credit card companies has them on the very edge on financial insolvency.

Pfft.”

“Oh yeah, and by passing this law, credit card companies will now be able to lower their fees and interest rates due to the extra revenue brought in by squeezing the deadbeats.

yeaaaah.”

““Nigal - these costs are the risk a lender factors in from the start.”

Come on now. Do you REALLY believe this? Losses are always passed on to the consumers who do pay. It’s just like when a store loses money due to theft. They have to raise their prices for the paying customer to make up for it.

I do agree this is a bad idea but to blame it on the GOPs and suggest they are on the take? Come on.”

“and much of the debt people end up owing comes from penalty fees and huge interest hikes after being late.
It's ok to claim you're fiscally responsible, but ANYONE can get into trouble, then you are going to be screwed.”

“My last post might sound a bit more combative than I ment it to. Sorry for the "ah come on" part.”

“Nigal - you think that a store prevents shoplifting altogether you're going to see lower prices. Of course not. They are there to make money.

And the GOP on the take. Go look at the contributions being made to the parties.
Every step of the way this administation has given big businesses everything they've asked for - or at least tried to.”

“Yep, with normal, manageable debt, a serious car accident injury or protracted illness, and you're screwed.

If you can't work, you can't earn.

This particular bill tries to focus on people with above-median incomes, but it's still a burden on people at their lowest points.”

““Yep, with normal, manageable debt, a serious car accident injury or protracted illness, and you're screwed."

Was this not the exact reason for bankruptcy in the first place. To help those who have encountered catastrophic events that cause them to fall behind? Or was it so we could buy a bunch of junk and not have to pay?”

“Actually the vast majority of politicians are on the take. I really think the system here needs reform. Money buys too much in Washington. The GOP has been particualrly good at this in recent years. I'm guess I have to admit that the Dems do the same, but the present administration does seem to offer more in return.”

“That sounds a bit more fair. And i agree 100% about special interest groups and donations.”

“Except Haliburten. They're cool.”

“Nigal, with normal long-term disability insurance in California, you bring in 66% of your pre-disability income.

Now, imagine you earned a good living of 85k, and bought a house and car and everything commesurate with that income. You get injured or whatever, and have to go on disability - fall behind on your payments and eventually have to declare bankruptcy.

Under this bill, since your disability is above the median income for California, you would be forced to repay most of your debts in chapter 13, rather than being able to discharge them under 7.”

“The GOP supports Biz more than the Dems????
What a shocker! ;-)”

“In other words, you could lose your house because you have to pay off your credit cards. If you have medical bills, prepare to tell your children they'll be going to community college while working at starbucks. If you have judgements against you (say the car accident was your fault), get ready to give up most of your disability income...

You get the point.”

“This was a bill written for and by the credit industry.

Two of the handful of Dems that voted to move this bill are from Delaware. Coincidence?

This bill makes no distinction between those who are in trouble because they were irresponsible enough to get cancer and those who run up credit card bills for things they don’t need. A proposed amendment that would exempt medical bankruptcies was voted down, as was one that would exempt active duty military.

The numbers I’ve seen don’t support the idea that there is an increase in people abusing the system. If that is the case, target the law at them, not at those that really deserve a second chance because of circumstances they couldn’t control.”

“Come on now. Do you REALLY believe this? Losses are always passed on to the consumers who do pay. It’s just like when a store loses money due to theft. They have to raise their prices for the paying customer to make up for it.

Nigal
3:23:15 PM
3/09/05


I agree with this.


However, when the tide is turned and the margins are improved, you surely don't believe that those "additional costs" are returned in the form of savings do you?”

““Under this bill, since your disability is above the median income for California, you would be forced to repay most of your debts in chapter 13, rather than being able to discharge them under 7.”


I have no problem with this. I think it should be paid back. Only under the most extreme cases, like death of a spouse, should you get off scott free. Chapter 13 does protect your assets and gives you a chance to restructure.

“In other words, you could lose your house because you have to pay off your credit cards.”

This is a bit extreme.

“If you have medical bills, prepare to tell your children they'll be going to community college while working at starbucks.”

This is a horrible thing?

“If you have judgements against you (say the car accident was your fault), get ready to give up most of your disability income…”

Not if you’re filing.

I think we have a different idea of exactly what is considered financial hardship here. I’m talking not being able to afford basic living needs…food, shelter, clothes. You kid having to work their own way through school is hardly a welfare case. It would have to be a pretty bad disability for me to just give up on life and not work at something. If you are disabled you can go through a training program that will train you in something you can do. I shed no tears for those who refuse to adapt.”

“"However, when the tide is turned and the margins are improved, you surely don't believe that those "additional costs" are returned in the form of savings do you?”

In the form of cost control, yes.”

“No, The idea isn't that you will starve, Nigal, the thing is that the better life you worked for for your family gets sold to the credit card companies because you get sick.

It sure seems like an injustice that could be avoided to me.”

“And as far the disability: any type of traumatic head injury or nervous system disease can render you unable to work at all - and it's not a lack of effort on the part of the afflicted or injured. There are a lot of other cases as well: chronic acute pain conditions, etc.”

“Rush Limbaugh has a chronic accute pain condition and he is still able to "work".........his jaw.”

“What the heck! Nigal, don't you work with the infirm?”

“I enjoy these discussions with you Phaedrus. Discussing the big issues. Solving the world's problems, just me and you. :)

“the thing is that the better life you worked for for your family gets sold to the credit card companies because you get sick.”

Pouring it on a bit thick here aren’t ya? LOL! Life is hard. It ain’t out to get ya but it’s not going to give you a free ride either. So while we are crying for Mr. 66% of $85,000 let’s think of how much a really down and out person could do with 66% of $85,000. Should he be paid the $85,000 for no reason other than that’s what he made? What about the person who makes $1,000,000 a year who becomes disabled. Should we pay them too? Why not?

“And as far the disability: any type of traumatic head injury or nervous system disease can render you unable to work at all - and it's not a lack of effort on the part of the afflicted or injured. There are a lot of other cases as well: chronic acute pain conditions, etc.”

Already covered…”It would have to be a pretty bad disability for me to just give up on life and not work at something.”. I think maybe the fact that I work with the disabled has made me a bit harsh towards the abled. The guy I work for has CP. He is nearly completely disabled. He can’t walk, he can’t speak, he can’t feed himself, he can’t bathroom himself. Yet he has held jobs. Jobs he could make a living at? No, but he does hold jobs. So when I see Joe Unemployed standing at the entrance to Walmart holding a sign for money, complete with all limbs functioning and all his abilities, I tend to not be as sympathetic as some are.”

“Nigal, the 66% was a good-case scenario, assuming the guy HAD disability insurance. If he was a business owner, or some self-made type, without the disability, it's worse.

So, are you for this bill, then?”

“No. I think if you can’t afford credit you shouldn’t HAVE credit. If you are hard up enough that you have to put something on a credit card you sure as hell aren’t going to be able to pay it back to the CC people. Credit cards lead people to have a dangerous attitude that leads them to say, "I deserve this ______. Don't I? I do.". ChaChing!

We’re basically arguing about nuances and other issues. I was arguing the fact that it’s not necessarily a GOP sell out.”

“When will Republicans learn that making a profit is a bad thing?”

“Dammit! The Democrats are blocking drilling in ANWR! They've been bought off by those damn special interests (i.e. the Sierra Club) again. Bastards!”

“Does this mean that the deadbeat Republicans will have to repay the debt they've run up in the last four years?

How ironic.”

“Bison's right. There's so much money to be had in NOT drilling ANWR, that it's obvious the greedy Sierra club bastards and environmental freaks are just out for a buck.”

“They're sick people Phaedrus, they really are, throwin' all that cash at politicians, it makes me sick...”

“BTW -

"There's so much money to be had in NOT drilling ANWR"

You're so right Phaedrus, a hell of a lot more money than any liberal would ever like to admit.”

“Yeah! Everyone knows that if the Sierra club had its way, we'd be limited to one child per couple until the human race collapsed in on itself, with the agreement that the last person left on Earth is supposed to jettison his own waste into space.

Freaky wierdos.”