GreenHorn/FreeBird on the AppalachianTr needs help

“This morning at the William Penn shelter near Bethel, PA in Berks County we met GreenHorn (he's considering changing his trail name to Free Bird). He is a southbounder thru-hiker from Maine and has been on the trail since October.

He lost his job, house and car and didn't have any possessions except the ones on his back inside his backpack. He was hiking in jeans and a sweatshirt. He actually hiked the trail thru the Whites in the winter.

He's taking his time on the trail, doing about 5-10 miles a day.

When we met him he was out of money and only had enough food to last for another two days. He had a friend from CT that was supposed to send him more supplies to Pine Grove Furnace, but the friend has flaked out. Greenhorn has been trying to reach his friend for a while and the person won't answer his calls.

He was a nice guy and is really enjoying his time on the trail, but his situation is getting desperate.

I was thinking maybe somehow we on trailtalk could try and help him out. I don't know how, but I'm sure there is a way. I know the AT is a network pretty much.

He goes by Green Horn and he is thinking of changing his name to Freebird since he feels free. Last night he stayed at the 501 shelter and tonight he is staying at the William Penn shelter.”

“what in particular does he need? ill be happy to help out”

“he needs food and a stove. He's carrying an old butane stove that is heavy. Maybe some new hiking clothes so that he is not hiking in jeans and a sweatshirt.”

“should we send something to you or to a p.o. on the trail? i could send him a pepsi can stove. he would just need to buy denatured or HEET. whats this guys size?

shoot me an email with details

scottfchr@aol.com”

“he's a pretty big guy. Over six feet tall and probably around 225 lbs.

Yeah, and maybe I can try and track him down on the trail again. I wonder how I would do that. The pace he is going, he will be in PA for a while. I think he is going to try and find work in Duncannon to get some cash, but I'm not sure. He didn't ask us to help, I thought of doing it while hiking today. He could probably use some friends right now.

He said he can barely read or write. So that might make tracking him down a tad more difficult.

Crash Bang, I could definitely use your help on this since you know about how the trail network works. I appreciate it.
last edited: 3/12/05 6:09:23 PM”

“Was pine grove his next mail drop ? Did he say he had any others ? He will probably shoot for Raush gap shelter for sunday evening. Its about 4 or 5 miles past swatra gap heading south. A quick day hike in on sunday could get him what he needs. I have x-tra stoves, gear, food, etc.. You interested in another quick hike ?”

“Crazypace, are you suggesting trying to find him tomorrow?”

“It would be eaiser to leave the package at the rausch gap shelter. or hike north, and run into him. I did this kinda stuff before for thruhikers, based on what the guys ahead of them say they need. Needless to say, it makes their day. most are predictable, they end up at the next shelter around 3 -4 pm the next day. I doubt anybody would steel anything left for him, especialy food and clothing.”

““he's a pretty big guy. Over six feet tall and probably around 225 lbs."

I've got some clothes he could use. Just tell me where to send 'em. I have some shell pants, Columbia anorak, extra flleec. Shlt man, I could just about outfit the guy.”

“eNs, we also have a garage full of extra gear, let me know where to send it (and what would be needed) and we would be glad to help out.

Off the top of my head I know we can send out a coleman peak 1 white gas stove, msr fuel canister. Clothes would be tougher with his size though.
last edited: 3/12/05 10:16:29 PM”

“Yeah, print a list. I'm his size. We have loads of gear as well.”

“yo - folks this sounds to me an awful like a scammer working a mark to me - if this guy is real why haven't I heard anything about him over on whiteblaze - a late season SOBO would be just as much a topic of discussion there as IceBound's late season NOBO.

I find it highly unlikely that anyone who has hiked in winter through the Whites would still be using jeans and a cotton sweatshirt. I may be doing the guy a disservice but really now - BOGUS!!!”

“I thought the same thing, HOI, so don't feel too bad about it. A real SOBO would be getting some attention over there. I find the whole story a little too close to "Saved"'s story. So close in fact, I had to remind myself that "Saved" is in the poky somewhere now.”

“yep - that is exactly who I thought of too - just the sort of bull#&%!$ that Saved would use except it didn't mentioned a dead son killed in Iraq.”

“first i thought...wow, hiking through the whites in winter;wonder how he kept from freezing?
then i took out my map(cause i can never remember exactly where the AT goes through) and i now think that anyone starting out in maine in october is either insane or has a deathwish.
especially this year when winter came sooooo early.
last edited: 3/13/05 7:18:52 AM”

“Saved. I remember that story. So they caught that guy ? I heard he stole a car too. I just missed icebound, when he came thru my area. I read his story at the bake oven knob shelter, when he was held up for a couple days durring that bad storm. BTW - keep in mind, this Green-horn guy never asked ENS for help. Either way, I'm planing on hiking today, so I'm gonna look for him. If I find him, I'll grill him on paticulars. If he's bull$hit, I'll take my goodie bag right back with me, If he's legit, I'll give him what he needs and help him establish some mail drops, so people can send him stuff.
ENS - let me know if you wanna go along. I plan on heading up before 12.”

“You might wander over to Whiteblaze and look for pics of Elmer, the trail theif too. This sorta sounds like his schtick as well.”

“please post a TR. you got me all curious now”

“I'll take my camera and get his pic if I find em.”

“The jeans made me scratch my head as well. However, whether the guy is legit or not, I think EarthNSky should be highly commended for thinking "help a fellow hiker out" first.
last edited: 3/13/05 7:40:50 AM”

“HOI and I are just old and suspicious, lol...

If we hadn't seen so many similar sob stories coming from the AT I would be more likely to conclude that the guy was legit. The next thing you know, we'll be hearing about someone coming across this old woman living on the AT who thinks she's rightful Queen of England.”

“where are the pics of this elmer ? I did a search but cant find him.”

“I have nothing against helping homeless people but it annoys me when they try to feed me a line of bull just to get something.”

“Elwood the thief

another pic of Elwood

SAVED / Elwood pic
last edited: 3/13/05 8:04:12 AM”

“Sorry, Elwood. Thanks, HOI.”

“It's a shame scum like that exists, but it's also cool how hikers band together to combat evil. Did that Elwood dude ever get busted, or is he still out there?”

“It looks as if there are two well known thiefs here - SAVED did get caught - see Whiteblaze forum discussion but Elwood I think is not the same as SAVED looking at the pics and their "real" names.
last edited: 3/13/05 8:13:30 AM”

“That guy looks old. Well, I'll hike north, I should pass him. This would be my second mission this weekend, check out my west rim return of the ring thread. I'll go 2 for 2 if get a pic of this guy and all his info.
Then I'm gonna play the lottery !!”

“Elwood is still out there as far as I know. Elwood and Saved are different, Saved was a younger man IIRC.”

“Y'all do know that there is such a thing as a trail bum right?

Its great that y'all want to help someone out but this story sounds like bull#&%!$.

The good ones concoct such tales of woe that they don't need to ask for help. They rely on manipulating folks basic decency compelling then to offer help.”

“Well, I'm packed. 3 days food, 1 pair of each - (pants,shirt,fleece pullover,socks).
stuff - batteries, toothpaste, advil, matches, lighter, etc.... I'm taking a iso-butane canister in, based he has that kinda stove already. Like I said, if he's a fake, I'll be bringing it all home again. If not, he will be 1 happy camper. I should be back by late afternoon. Its about an hour or so away.”

“It sounds like a variation of the Distress Cull scam, so do be careful. Try to get details out of him, that's what generally trips them up.

If he is truly in need, then there is more help for him in urban centers.”

“One thing that bugs me about society isn’t that I can’t trust others, it’s that others don’t trust me. I have helped a lot of people. Sometimes I have put myself in situations that would be considered dangerous in order to do so. Throughout all the times I’ve helped others I have never regretted it. I have never been burnt. I’m sure some day I’ll get burnt and when I do, I’ll think back to all the people I did help and say, “It was worth it.”. I do believe in karma type reward and feel that if I give a scammer something out of the kindness of my heart I’m still serving good. And that what I do for the scammer will come back on him somewhere down the line.”

“Scammer? You folks live in too much paranoia. Every new person is a troll, so anyone needing help is a scammer?

If this is a scammer, he's a freaking brilliant one. If he was scamming us, wouldn't he ask for something? ENS stated that he didn't ask for help. He didn't ask us for anything, except to use my cell to try and reach a friend. ENS gave him some energy food and I gave him a few bucks. If he hasn't been hiking the trail, he did a lot of research, because I was familiar with a lot of places he was describing. You won't see him on whiteblaze or any online journal site, because he's never used a computer.

anywho - Crazypace, ENS mentioned Pine Grove Furnace for his supply drop, but it's the town of Pine Grove, not the state park area, northeast from Swatara Gap. He was planning on leaving his pack at the William Penn shelter and then bum a ride to the post office. Being that it was Saturday morning, there's a chance he won't get to town until Monday morning when the post office opens. Even if he gets there, it's possible there won't be anything there for him, since he was having trouble contacting his friend.

In that case, he was planning on buying enough supplies to get him to Duncannon, where he'd probably stay a while and try to work for some cash.

Keep the negativity out of this thread, please. I commend ENS for posting this and trying to help out a fellow hiker. If you still think this guy is a scammer, then simply don't get involved, and please take the trash talk elsewhere.”

“

He didn't beg at all. He asked to use a cell phone if one of us had one and Pennsy let him borrow his. He asked if any of us had any extra cash he could use it, but he didn't beg for it and he didn't whine at all. Pennsy (the striking one) gave him some money cuz none Phantom and I weren't carrying any flow on us.

I seriously don't think he was a scammer. He said he hitched a ride for a little bit up north, but I'm not if it was in VT or NH. He said he experienced the worst in Mass. There is no way to make up his Maine accent. He had a thick Maine accent.
last edited: 3/13/05 10:04:47 AM”

“Crazypace - did you leave yet? I might be able to join you.”

“I think Christian charity is a wonderful thing.

But I'm not too keen on people who take advantage of this. In meeting this fellow, I'd be very curious as to:

*Finding out exactly what had happened to his hiking gear if he'd alledgedly been travelling from Maine since October.

*Was it lost? If so, how, and where? Was
it stolen? If so, when? If stolen, was it
reported? I'm willing to bet it wasn't.

*Does the guy have photos, a journal, Trail
Guidebooks, or ANYTHING that would prove
he'd actually been hiking since October?

*Can he speak knowledgably about the Trail
towns he's in, hiker facilities,businesses,
hostels, etc? Can he answer direct and
simple questions about Trail places and
Trail people that any actual hiker would
know immediately? Can he answer direct
questions about his trip without a lot of
hemming and hawing? I doubt it. I'd ask
him some quick questions such as "Which
hostels were open in Andover? What was
the name of the guy who took you across
the Kennebec? What were your three most
difficult downhills in the Whites? Which
AMC Huts were still open for hikers when
you got there? Who runs the hostel in
Glencliff? Where'd you stay in Hanover?
What's the name of the Monastery in New
York? What's the name of the minister that
runs the church hostel in Delaware Water
Gap?" and so on. Something tells me he'd
have a problem with some of these, and
maybe ALL of them.

I don't mean to sound jaded and distrustful, but something's not quite right here. I don't know all the facts, but I DO know this, in that I live in New Hampshire: Nobody gets thru the Whites in the wintertime in jeans and a sweatshirt, and nobody that's allegedly been
hiking all winter would be looking like this. Also, the fact that he's been mentioned NOWHERE on such sites as Whiteblaze.net or Trailjournals is not a good sign.

I'd ask the guy five direct questions about Trail features, locations, etc. that he'd supposedly seen or passed by recently, and I'd make sure to ask about places that were far from roads and trail crossings. I'd be VERY curious if he pased this test.

Lastly, no one so far has commented on the fact that the guy is about 1175 miles from Springer and has no money? How does he realistically plan, or expect to proceed?

Sorry to sound cynical, but something ain't right here. It's wonderful that folks want to help a guy who tells them he's down on his luck, but I'm afraid I'm a bit more skeptical.”

“I don't think he lost his gear. I don't think he started out with gear. He has more stuff, I mean his pack was huge. I think he's carrying heavy gear, instead of light weight backpacking gear. It's possible he hitched rides through part of the Whites. We talked to him for about an hour and he did know specific details about the trail, shelters and the like. The only thing that made me wonder was that we were joking about the evil rocks in PA and he said he didn't think the trail was that bad. I imagine a lot of the rocks were covered in snow though. I think he was also greatful to be experiencing warm weather. He said he only had to tent a few times. All of the other times he has stayed in shelters.”

“Go get 'um guys, I think this is a great thing you are doing! Even if he is scamming, doesn't it make you feel good to help someone? And, if he is not scamming, he will remember this kindness for the rest of his life, and pass it on to others in need. Remember the movie "Pay it Forward"? Altruizm(sp?) at its best. Bravo!”

“That's all well and good Jack but I normally don't demand a rectal exam when helping people out. LOL!

In this case I'd be out what?, a few bucks and some dusty gear I don't use anyhow?”

“I'm not suggesting we send him cash or anything. I'm just figure alot of us have gear we don't use anymore and that we could upgrade his gear and bring his pack wieght down and help him with food and fuel. He was using a cast iron cook set and a stove that was 25 years old.”

“"He was using a cast iron cook set and a stove that was 25 years old.”

Damn! I have enough pots in my gear den. So if you guys make contact how will we know how to get the gear to him?”

“The guy didn't give us a sob story either. He gave us a few bullet points, but he was happier talking about the wildlife he had seen and the people he met and the places he has been to since he was on the trail. He was very upbeat.”

“double post
last edited: 3/13/05 10:37:17 AM”

“hey ENS,
when i come down for the BFT in a couple weeks i'll bring a bag o' decent trail food, prolly enertias.

think you could network it down to him then?
he should be around southern PA by then, unless he stays in Dun. a while.

i'm not completely sold on the guy (the jeans through the whites in winter has me skeptical) but - what the hell?
worst case scenario i bought some jerk a weeks food and it seems to me that if this guy is that good of scam artist, he could put his efforts into better cons than trying to get some food and a pair of nigal's used pants.”

“EarthNsky....

If he didn't start out with gear, then he hasn't been hiking the Trail since October, i.e. his story, that he's been Southbounding all winter, is either false or greatly exaggereated.

Please don't misinterpret my first post; if you want to help a guy that's down on his luck, I think that's commendable, and your heart is in the right place, but fact is, there are folks and stories like this EVERY year, and they always involve lost gear, checks or funds that are late or never mailed, friends or families that don't come thru, etc. And for someone to say that he didn't beg for cash but was willing to take some if any had any extra....well, c'mon. What's the difference?

And note to Pennsy. Advising people to temper their charity with a bit of common sense is not "negativity" or "trash talk."
How much time do you have on the A.T. anyway, just out of curiousity? The fact is, every year (tho usually not in winter), there are folks out on the Trail who are not really long-distance backers, and who are either incapable or unwilling to finance their own trips. They stay out there as long as they can by gulling well-minded folks into bailing them out at each and every opportunity, and the tales of woe and bad luck are always the same. In the process, they leave a bad impression with a lot of folks about long-distance backpackers and thru-hikers, as lots of people in small towns have the impression that hikers are little more than bums. Encountering folks who are hiking the Trail on 29 cents and who are anxious to be given extra cash and other handouts doesn't exactly send out a glowing picture of the hiking community. There are towns and places on the Trail that are NOT hiker friendly; there are places where people don't stop if you're hitching into town for supplies, and places where you WILL be examined and sometimes harassed by over-anxious cops. And you know why this happens? It's because of the false impressions that all too many folks have about hikers because the only hiker they ever encountered was essentially a penniless bum with his hand out for scraps and charity. Sorry, Pennsy, but helping folks like this might be helpful to one person, and might make you feel all warm and fuzzy, but it is NOT helpful to the Trail or the hiking community. You wanna help this guy? Then drive him to a town where he can get a job for awhile so he can support himself on the Trail instead of depending on charity or quasi-begging? Want to REALLY help him? Buy him a bus ticket home or to somewhere else. You feel that good about him? Then take him home, clean him up, and put him up til he's back on his feet financially. Gee, why do Iget this feeling that THAT ain't about to happen? In short, there's all sorts of things you can do, but helping him stay on the Trail by essentially bumming his way down the line may allow you to pat yourself on the back for you good deeds, and may permit you to admonish others who don't live
up to your standards, but there's nothing unkind, untrue, or negative about saying that folks like this need to become self-supportive or they need to be off the Trail.”

“kudos to those wanting to help those in need

but ...

Every time I've read this post since yesterday I keep thinking of one thing that I haven't heard mentioned.

How is giving him some extra tools to HIKE the AT helping this guy? What he needs to do is STOP hiking and go get a job. If, WHILE he's searching for that job he needs some charity, fine! But come on guys ... he's taking a vacation here.

I'd like to go to Disney World if I lose my job. Mind if I call you guys for some extra cash if that happens?”

“Hey, that guys name wouldn't happen to be Bill would it? (thats a serious question - not a joke).”

“I can't rember his name. He had a french name.”

“ah, its just that the picture makes him look an awful lot like a guy i met who was from Maine, several years ago. The predicament wouldn't suprise me from this guy, nor would the attitude he seems to have based on your description.

just made me curious.”